It seems to me that if you are polite and conduct yourself as a gentleman without cussing or yelling then no problems should arise. I have read this post and can see both sides ::refs being yelled at all day equals quick judgements and bad calls :: coaches getting bad calls and kids not listening all day equals quick tempers:: the only difference is most coaches are not being paid for their time or efforts. Refs are paid to be in charge of the situation and in that aspect should be able to control their emotions and demeener. I do believe that there should be a point system in place for refs after every tournament one coach from each school should rate each ref on a scale. Everybody makes mistakes and loses thier cool we are human but plain incompetancy should not be tolerated and this type of system would weed that out

mike pirl

I understand what you are saying about getting to know the ref and building a mutual respect. But I can tell you that some refs get very defensive when asked their name. I had a very bad experience with a young ref at the Mulvane. We had a conversation about a call.
I called him to the table and said:

"Sir, can I ask you in your opinion what made that move potentially dangerous. The reason I ask is cause you were in a better position then I and I want to be able to explain it to my wrestler so it does not happen again."

His reply: "COACH, if you are questioning my judgement then I would suggest you walk your happy self right back over to your corner and stop wasting my time!"

"I am not questioning your judgement and I am not argueing the call. I am asking what made that move dangerous."

"He had the arm in an unsafe position."

"Really?"

"Really!"

"OK!" Said sarcasticly

"Coach! Get back in your corner and shut the hell up before you piss me off and you end up looking like an ass!"

"REALLY?"

"Really!"

After the match everyone shook hands and I walked out to the ref and very calmly said. "I notice you dont have a number on your shirt, can I get your name?"

"Why?"

"Cause I think you were totally out of line with your attitude and profanity and I want to make sure that my club never uses you at one of our tournaments!"

"Thats it coach! Thats your warning! One more word and you are gone!"

I smiled, turned and walked away! I have his name and my only action againest this guy is that we will NEVER us him and he was not on our list of refs submitted for state.
Yet Im the bad guy and I had to be treated that way in front of my wrestlers and parents.

I know this is only one example of so very many but long story short...
Please put names or numbers back on the shirts cause that is one of the only courses of action that we have as coaches to let some of these guys know that they can not treat people like this and they should be held accountable!

Lance Tracy

I want to clear some things up! I wasn't coaching this match. I had two coaches in the coaches square and I was standing a few feet behind them ( common practice and the excepted standard at kansas wrestling tournaments). In fact when I was warned the ref in question said, and I quote " your not even involved in this match, warning." How can I appeal to the table if I wasn't even coaching the match. Furthermore you can't bring a ref to the table for a judgement call only a rules infraction. How many of you as a fan of a football game ever trashed a ref and been thrown out. or been to a D1 basketball game and heckled refs. It doesn't happen. Are we not allowed to voice our opinions on the sidelines as long as it's with in reason ( keep in mind I never raised my voice or cursed.) You can even ask the head ref beacuse he was standing 5 feet from me when this happened. He even said that i wasn't loud and out of control. Heck I felt like he was the only one who had my back. To address the hand in the air with a fist, that never happened. I was holding up two fingers to indicate a takedown should have been awarded.

you're making it too difficult. just ask! if you don't feel comfortable asking the ref ask around someone knows them.

Here is my two cents...When I officiate I could care less what is being yelled from the corner. When I am in the corner I lobby hard for calls and for my wrestler. My opinion is that coaches should do that. Watch the NCAA wrestling tournament, watch the NCAA basketball tournament. The officials job is inside the circle unless the coach is using profanity or steps into the wrestling area. If the coach tables an official, the official then should listen and not argue. The less the official says the more likely the coach will be defused. I thank the coach and tell him that I am sticking with my call and I go back to the circle. An official should NEVER take anything said during a match personally. They are paid professionals and should be held to a higher level of conduct than our volunteer coaches. A good officials doesn't listen to the corners, doesn't argue, and leaves his emotions in the car before he walks in.

It sounds like the official got personal and took it personally. He should have never gone to the corner and engaged himself in the discussion.

WELL SAID Mr. Cokeley !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what do you want to bet? the official has thought about what happened and probably has thought about what to do differently.

there should be a committee dictating what to do differently, but there is not.

sounds like the official was disrespectful, many have explained that they didn't feel the coach was.

how many coaches are disrespectful each tournament? how many officials are disrespectful at each tournament? how many officials fall into cokeley's "paid professional" status? how many are doing it for extra cash? how many coaches really know the rules? how many are "paid" volunteers? how many officials have been officials more than 10 years? how many coaches have wrested/ coached for more than 25 years? how many times have you said "if i were the ref i would toss him"? how many coaches want to see "certain coaches" thrown out, yet are apalled when it happens to them? how many of us have "BAD DAYS"?

how many of you warn your kids? how many ground or punish after 1 warning?

WOW there is A lot of hows in that on.

I think All coaches yell.I think all refs have bad days.I just think the 2 had a run in at A bad time.

i think you are right, it's unfortunate and i'm sorry it happened the way it did. i just think some folks are making it seem like, every ref is bad, and coaches never make mistakes. i have been on both sides of this fence, and can tell you both are very frustrating at times, but no one is perfect.

I couldn't Agree with you more maybe we missed my point in this post. The Ref was not wrong i just think he was tired, having a bad day what ever. the point of this post is explain to the upper powers who have a change to right this wrong that alot of us saw what happened and that it was blown completely out of porportion. The ref is not a bad ref not at all but the coach in question handled himself in a manner that didn't warrent be thrown out of any tournament let alone the biggest of the year thats obserd. And ts not to late to correct it.

Well it goes both ways just like coaches! Some that are over the top great and some that just get over stressed( I won't say bad because there is no way I would call a volunteer coach or any ref bad considering what they go through every weekend!) I have seen refs that get angry even when a coach simply asks for a clarification on the score. A lot of heated arguments are due to table workers also. Don't think however I am knocking the tableworkers either becuase I have been one and it is super tough! That leads to the next point, the awesome refs. The first time I worked a table the refs were completely wonderful and made sure that we did not miss one point! As with EVERYTHING else in life there is good and bad! Everyone should be accountable for thier actions also though. Heck I have seen some really aggressive, i rate, out of line coaches also. Maybe coaches and refs should both wear either name tags or numbers. Maybe then complaints could be handles as they should be by a third party who is not in the heat of the argument. If this was the case then maybe we wouldn't have coaches who are trying to advocate for thier wrestlers missing the state tourney due to thier passion for the sport and we also would not have refs attacked for thier every call! I know that we have a deal that the coach lets the wrestler calm down before discussing the match for this very reason! Emotions are too high during the match! I know that resolving in this mannor will not provide for an immediate solution to a bad call but how many refs overturn a call in the heat of the match anyway?!? Not very many.

When a coach is given a warning by the referee, the coach has two options; stop the activity which he was warned about, or continue and suffer the consequences.

When a coach with the required coaches band on his wrist is standing mat side yelling instructions or questioning the referee the coach is attempting to affect the outcome of the match. If I am standing matside hollering "that is two" I am attempting to get the referee to see my point of view and affect the outcome of the match.

The same could be said for a participant, or a fan that is sitting matside are you gonna warn a fan for holding up there fingers indicating that two points should be awarded. Coaches sit mat side all year long. theres usally coaches all around the mats yelling all kinds of stuff within reason. Would you kick a wrestler out of a tournament for doing the same. How bout a mom of a kid. How many moms do you here screaming stuff at refs at tournaments. Do you see them get kicked out! Furthermore I didn't scream or raise my voice. Also how can I stop the activity if the ref never told me what I was warned for in the first place. He didn't say, " you have a warning for so and so." In fact if I would have asked what the warning was for he was gonna kick me out. I tried! He kicked me out before i could get on word out of my mouth. This whole incident stemmed from a previous match. Mine and other matches. It was his way of getting even. Where in the rule book does it say if you open your mouth after a warning you get tossed. What if I was saying I'm sorry. He wouldn't have know!

Little by little more details have come out during this thread to shed light on the whole incident.

I don't understand what's stopping this from being resolved by friday.

It has been resolved.

Always looking to be the monkey wrench aren't ya sport0? I'm with you CJA. The powers that be need to do the right thing.

i don't think we are thinking long term here. you can't re-do what's been done. then the next time, when it is something sooo serious that none of us can believe it happened and we DON'T "sweep it under the rug"/ "do the right thing", then it's discrimination.

"i just raised my voice a little", "i only said 1 bad word", "i didn't say THAT! i said "achoo"!", "i wasn't talking to you mr. referee" where do you draw the line? i don't know.

cbr is right worse infractions happen every tournament, and the violators always believe in their own innocence. i'm not saying what cbr did is right or wrong, nor the official. i'm saying you can't set the precedent by letting it go, just because "it could have been worse"

maybe the ejection should stand for the coach, and be lifted for the DAD.

This rule never seems to apply to the team of hard knox!!

There is a process in place to handle this and we will follow the process.

We have spent way to much time focusing on this, not enough on what a great weekend we are going to have.

Ned