I have to say after attending Brute every year and attending this tournament this year, Brute is ran a whole lot better. It has been a cluster.
1. Brackets are not updated until right before the match.
2. Wrestlers have waited 6 hours in between matches
3. Many brackets not seeded.
4. officiating has been worse than Kansas.
5. head table has been very rude.
6. very unorganized.
7. At one mat they had no time clock, grade school kids running the table and keeping the score on paper only.
8. Temperature in the building probably 70.
9. score table was coaching and when I said something to the official he said who care.


Mel

I just had two parents also tell me that they had to pay $25.00 each every day to watch their wrestlers. No place to warm up, but since there was no notice prior to your match you cant warm up any way.


Mel

The only thing they have over Brute is competition and webcasts.

It is very easy to find the negatives in any tournament! Every year problems are pointed out at NHSCA Senior Nationals, Brute Adidas, and even our own State Tournaments! Yes, NHSCA does have a few problems but it has a few things it does very well!

The "money grabs" of a lot of bigger tournaments seems to be a trend of times. Yes, NHSCA and Brute both charge, in my mind, too much money to coach! (and there is no requirement; IE: Bronze card) The spectator fees are high. From early reports, FloNationals is similar in their charges!

I guess this year, I am a "coordinator" of the VA trip ... likewise, Mel has a lot to do with Brute. The NHSCA tourney is a highly competitive tournament ... in fact, you have to qualify to be here. Logistically, NHSCA has issues, as does Brute, as does Fargo, and Kansas tournaments likewise!

I guess I could bullet point those things that the NHSCA and there 21 year history do well. I could counter a few of Mel's issues with the NHSCA but perhaps I will leave that for another time.

Mel, I agree with you on some points and disagree with you on others!!

I think Brute is a joke! VA Beach competition is way better. Brute is probably an easier tournament than Kids state. To label kids as All-Americans from Brute is a slap in the face to our sport!

I attended that tournament last year and aside from the seating not being great for spectators... All other aspects of the tournament were great in my opinion. I thought it was a blast and the wrestling was awesome.

To each is his own... but I say Brute sucks compared to VA Beach!

I think this trip had been wonderful this year. Its my first time here, but I felt it has ran pretty smooth. I have been to both tournaments and I know one year in KC at the KCI expo center brute was horribly ran with the bullpen format. The wrestling here is second to none, and the Kansas people have made this trip as easy on the coaches and wrestlers as they could. A big thanks goes out to them.

Kansas is making a huge mistake not helping all of our elite Juniors out to Va. Beach. The college coaches are much more interested in the performance of juniors as they plan their upcoming recruiting. Byron Mays took Ryne, Taylor and Jake Gentzler. He talked to numerous coaches who encouraged him to try to get more Kansas juniors to come out. Their 2010 recruiting is either complete or nearly complete. Byron is going to try to get on the KWCA agenda to speak about what he learned. I know he talked to at least 20 different college coaches this past weekend.

Mel, you will not find near the college coaches at Brute. In fact you won't find near as many at any tournament I have ever been to!

... and I agree that Byron was very visible at VA Beach! Any proposal has my ear!

I totally agree... Brute is more for younger kids... VA Beach is where you get recruited!

will is right and i might also add that it wouldnt hurt kansas to help out any of the elite wrestlers from kansas whether they are soph to seniors, i know eric was being watched by several college coaches. and even approached by one before he found out he was only a sophomore .. either way they are there representing the state of kansas

I made the trip out to VA beach this past weekend and had a blast! The competition level was unbelievably high for the Senior Division and IMO is rivaled only by the Junior division at Fargo. Had the chance to talk to many College Coaches who were very interested in KS wrestlers. Yes, the D1 guys were mainly focusing on the Juniors but there were many Colleges still scrambling for available Seniors.

No doubt the spectator entry fee was out of control and the building was cold on Sat and yeah the bracket updates wern't coming as fast as we're used to. Considering the number of kids in each bracket, I was amazed there were wall updates at all. All of this was overshadowed by the awesome wrestling that was available for my viewing pleasure...20 mats going at once with a good match on everone of them...a wrestling fans dream! My only regret is that we didn't attend this sooner.

I agree with the coaches talking about how great this tournament is. I use to live in KS, but now I live in another state. It is awesome to always see KS represented so well with all the athletes and coaches. I have really been pushing to get the younger classmen to go out from the current state that I'm in and they definitely do benefit from going in the younger divisions. I have 2 wrestlers from my high school that I'm in at now that have placed twice now in the Freshman and Sophmore classes and they are getting a lot of recognition.

This tournament in my opinion is a great one. There are problems with every big tournament, but this is definitely a great tournament to attend for all High Schoolers serious about being recruited.

I was there at the NHSCA Senior Nationals in Virgina Beach and did not see any of the problems Mel alleged. Not to say that he didn't, but if you sent 10 people to a tounament that massive you would get ten different evaluations. The meet, by-in-large, is well ran, organized like clock work, and goes an extra mile to be an elete presentation. Kansas, because of relationships that Cherie and Chuck have developed, is treated like royalty.

The meet is very selective about who gets to wrestle in it. Kansas, like most states, can bring only the wrestlers who have been in the finals of the state sometime in their career. Some of the larger states like California and New York, who have only one state champion, may bring their top eight. Believe me, after they have sifted through the thousands of kids who wrestle in California, that eighth kid in each weight class is nasty. Also, the wrestlers can petition in, but the criteria for acceptance is high.

Earlier in the same week there are similar tournaments for Juniors, Sophomores, and Freshmen hosted by the NHSCA at the same location. The criteria for entry is not as high as the seniors, but the competion is excellent anyway. Earlier in this thread Will Cokeley suggested that we offer from Kansas a similar experience for these younger high school wrestlers that we offer for our seniors. I think that is a great idea. The more experience Kansas kids have at that level the better they will become.

If Juniors can afford the trip out to the NHSCA nationals they should definitely go. You get the very best exposure for college coaches and you get to see a totally different style of wrestling than what you see here in Kansas. I would also encourage all Seniors going next year to try and certify at a lowest weight class possible for themselves. I was out there and noticed many of the top kids from other states were wrestling down a weight class from what they competed at during their high school season. Having one weigh in out there with a lot of recovery time really let kids pull a lot of weight. Many of the Kansas kids would have benefited being down one weight class.

I thought the rules stated you must wrestle no lower than the weight you did your senior year?

I believe the rule is you cannot wrestle lower than what you certified.

You can wrestle the weight that you certified at during the KSHSAA season. What I am saying is that many wrestlers wrestled at a lower weight class at the Sr. National Tournament than what they wrestled at their state tournament. Now whether they certified at that lower weight one time or what I do not know. The kids get a three pound allowance at Senior Nationals. Basically what I am trying to say is that cutting weight for this tournament would be an advantage. I know that the kid from Oklahoma that Cade Blair wrestled in the Quarterfinals was a state Champ at 160 this year and competed at 152 at Sr. Nationals. The runner up at 140 was a state champ in Georgia at 145 this year and the list could go on. Many of the Kansas kids looked small compared to their competition and if they are not cutting weight for their high school season it might not be a bad idea to certify one weight class lower for nationals.

I am told that allowing a wrestler to wrestle at the weight class that he certified at is new. In the past I think it has been that the wrestler was required to wrestle at the same weight class that he wrestled at state or higher. That rule change does open the meet up to more agressive weight cutting.

What I notice most was the number of one point losses that we had, or allowing the score to become tied and losing in overtime. Often this all happened after leading the entire match. You are not going to go out and blow anyone's doors off in this tournament. So our wrestlers got a lesson on how to preserve a lead, use the out of bounds to their advantage, to use the regular, injury, and blood time clocks to their advantage, when to ride and when to relaese; basically mat strategy.

These things need to be talked about in every wrestling room in the state. Also kids and parents need to be taught that becoming a winner does not mean avoiding tough competition, that you can learn from losses. For some finding this level of competition might mean travel.

In the mid 90's you could cut down to whatever weight you wanted.

I thought the tournament was run amazingly well. The only thing I would do differently is put all the mats in a 2 wide line and find some more bleachers, but other than that it was awesome.

I thought the officiating was extremely good. The one call that I disagreed with while coaching I took to the official, he actually listened to me, and then he overturned the call.

Thanks a million to the people who make this trip possible for Kansas.