I have no solution, I think Kansas wrestling has apretty good setup right now. If the season is too long don't wrestle every weekend if its too exspensive dont wrestle every weekend if your kid doesnt want to go cause the awards suck dont go.
I think one bracket per weight per age division is great.
If you are worried about 25 miles to drive move to pa we drove 58 a night one way to practice.
so i guess i ultimately have two opinions

1. this sport is about the kids growing and learning and having FUN
2. if its too long, exspensive, not enough bling, not hard enough
don't do it

sorry forgot my name is mike pirl
Also went to Brute this weekend got two quality matches spent at least 500 but had a blast. my kid and i had the time of our lives
had a chance to wrestle more but didnt care wanted it to be fun with no pressure
exspensive yes
worth it yes again about the kids not me or my ego

that happened along time ago! IMO!

agree with your thinking 100%, but still don't see a solution here. what are you going to propose that each district is only allowed a total of 64 clubs? you are absolutely right there are too many clubs trying to run tournaments, but there is an easier solution than trying to limit the numbers. its communication, and cooperation. i urge the district reps to take charge and provide a schedule of events at the first district meeting of the year, challenge clubs to get their dates in on time, so ALL clubs can have the same opportunities.

calling it a series championship, isn't any more a ridiculous idea than tulsa nationals, big horn nationals, dixie nationals, brute nationals, folkstyle nationals, or liberty nationals, etc. do you really think those are a true national tournament? are ALL the toughest kids in the nation there? are they hurting wrestling? i really don't think so, but some might think so.

why does anyone go to those tournaments. FOR THE COMPETITION. i don't see the harm in expanding tough tournaments throughout kansas. i think park city, salina, are good, as well as hays, we need a big tournament back in topeka and the four districts could be covered, and should have plenty of wrestling space, motels, etc. it's not that different than what it is now. call it what ever you want, you are making too big of a deal out of this.

Read the rest of the posts. I'm not making too much out of this, those wanting the series are trying to make a big deal out of nothing. Quit trying to give away meaningless awards to make the kids feel better about not winning state. And Yes, Tulsa is legit.

Come on rough you didn't enjoy those searches. Thought they were kinda fun. LOL

I agree with you Mike. I think the season is fine as it is, and if you want to make it shorter, well I had a suggestion on that a while back and didn't get much feedback. Ditch the Subs, have four District tournaments, two Sub-States, and State. As far as the after State season, the ones that do freestyle and greco, I applaud them for sticking with wrestling that many months of the year. They will likely be the wrestlers that show the most improvement the next season. As for my son, Jr High track and club soccer now, baseball soon, and on to trying to make the High School soccer in the fall. As I have said before, and I am a wrestling junkie, he will probably not be the best High School wrestler in the State, but he should hold his own.

One more thing on his plate, continuing to get straight A's in the classroom (the thing that I am most proud of). As far as the day when he gets his first B, or heaven forbid a C, he will not fall into that category of kids that can't cope with not being the best. I believe that wrestling has already taught him that, as well as the other sports he has been involved in. Until then, he has been a State Champion in the classroom, but has never placed in State in any sport.

I dis-agree on the meaningless prize. It would be something that a kid won over a period of 5 or 6 matches not just one tournament. Your right state is tough but not the toughest. I still think there are good things and bad things. If it happens I will stand behind it if not then no different then the last 5 years.

I've watched this topic for several days and I really don't know what to think about any of it but do have to agree with one thing and disagree with another. First of all, we did go to at least 4 tournaments this year which my son only had two matches, so don't know what the answer is but would be nice to get more matches after driving 2 hours. And yes we could go where there is more kids and yes we do know where those tournaments are but as much as anything I try to teach, being there for your teammates and coaches and sticking together is one of the biggest lessons we can teach our kids in this great sport. Yes you can look at it as an individual sport but "team" is a much bigger part of it and will be as they go through Jr High and HS. So I will not preach this to my son and then take him to a tournament while the rest of the team goes to another as a "TEAM". What bigger lesson can we teach our children than loyalty to family, team, friends or whatever.
Now, as far as State being "not the toughest" may be but I am NOT going to tell my son that he was 2nd at the STATE TOURNAMENT but it wasn't the toughest. In my opinion, it is the toughest tournament you will find with only Kansas kids. Sure other big tournaments may draw kids from other states but the STATE Tournament is exactly that, the best of the best from our State and I am extremely proud of my son and his two "teammates" who placed at STATE. You have to earn your way there over the course of 3 weeks and then wrestle your heart out for two days, with thousands of people watching you (sure it feels like that) and knowing that all the sweat and tears to get here rely on what you do THIS match, then you have to do it again, and again, ect....Ask the kids when the season starts and they will tell you they want to win STATE, not Hays, Park City, Salina. STATE is what they look at as the biggest. I do agree the bling is a very big part of some kids goals. Others is the bracket. I know my son was thrilled more to get a bracket for 2nd place that the plaque. I hope nobody is taking this as me braggin on my son, it is far from what I am saying, which is we don't want to do anything that takes away the prestige of the STATE TOURNAMENT, cause it is what the kids want. I will always remember the tears of joy that lasted about an hour after my son won the semi-final match. As he said, "now I have a chance to get my goal, I wanted a chance".

see thats what im saying there are lots of good and bad points of the series. I honestly think it will take away the prestige of the state tournament as Tony said you ask the kids what tournament they want to win and from day one the coaches set the goal of winning state and so do the kids. guess I have mixed thoughts on a series.

heres the solution to the "Series" since its a split on, in favors and agianst.. i say just make it Personal. have someone come up with a design for the Elite 5 tournaments,, put it on the front of a T-Shirt for your Kid,, If you know you are going to go to all 5 tournaments, then buy the shirt, and have it at each tournament,, and just have the Placing put on the back of the shirt,, that way by the time wichita classic rolls around youll have 4 placings on the back of the shirt from the other 4 "elite" tournaments... that will let the kids check out each others placings while they play around while at wichita,, somone can get all the shirts printed so everyone has the same one and he can take orders and payments and have them printed, and mailed. that would be all the organizing you would need, and it would save you from feeling like you have to buy a T-Shirt at all 5 tournaments, saving you around 100 bucks!!

this way if you want to be a part of it you can if not then you dont have too, at subs youll see kids wearing the shirts with 5 placings on the backs,, No personal Recognition but jsut somethings kids can talk about with their buddies!! that shouldnt take anything away from Being STATE champion, which i agree the Series thing would take a little away from!!

These tournaments are already well attended, with great competition. Making them a series will not make a difference. All it will do is give another AWARD or TITLE. And Yes, Tulsa is legit. [/quote]

so where's the harm? we agree on tulsa, but what about the rest of the "national" tournaments? middle school state? now we're going to have 2 class 4a brackets. look chad i'm not trying to push for this, i'm just sayin' these guys are trying to come up with ideas. if we don't like them, we need to come up with something else to continue to grow the sport. it's too darned expensive, and now we have too many clubs and too many tournaments. how do we fix it?

NO, we are not!


So the solution is, create more expensive tournaments which in turn put the less costly tournaments out of business? OOOOOOOK

still haven't heard a proposal sportsfan, beeson came up with one. cut out clubs, equally as crazy as calling existing tournaments a series. how do we keep from running the little guy out of business?

in case you haven't figured it out i really don't care if there is a series or not, i want competition. in the past few years it (competition) has dwindled to only a select few tourneys.

i never said create any more expensive tournaments, and only saw one proposal to raise entry fees.

again you mis-read.

what i am looking for is people who are complaining, to offer up some suggestions. my son is 5 and i don't want things to be screwed up too bad when he is 12.

i have done this now for about 15 years and seen ups and downs. but this year was by far the worst for tournaments being cancelled.

so how do we fix it?

bringing up the same old excuses, just doesn't cut it for me, sorry, it never will.

give me some suggestions, i have a few of my own, but am looking further. please offer up some positive feedback.

btw i put the whole 2 4a classes thing on there to make people realize what happens when they think things are great the way they are. when you sit back and get complacent, someone who is not will come and catch you by suprise. this should be a wake up call to those you are sitting back and thinking everything should be just the way it used to be. it's not and never will again, realize someone out there is working harder than you, and will sneak up and upset you. it doesn't always have to be for the good, some people think alot different than we do. they came up with this silly proposal while we were all thinking man things are just great. i don't care if it's in just one sport or all sports, it's crazier than any series, big/ expensive tournament, or even cutting clubs like ha president beeson said. so those of you who want to sit back and do nothing different, will have nothing to complain about when things go south. when more and more tournaments cancel because we did nothing, someone will do something you don't like, but it will be too late.

keep coming up with ideas, keep playing devils advocate, keep brainstorming, keep evolving, keep learning. it's the nature of the beast.

ok sporto who said anything about coming up with more and more expensive tournaments. you keep saying that but nobody has said anything about adding tournaments. the proposal was to take 3-6 existing tournaments add maybe 5 bucks extra and thats it. stop dicking with everyones ideas and come up with an idea to help make it better or better yet keep your flapper shut cause you never have anything good to say.

As long as you and others are ONLY interested in looking for the "competition", there is no answer. People of that ilk will continue to take their wrestlers out of state or in some cases just out of district, to the detriment of the rest. There are other ways to find "competition", as we have noted, like wrestling up in age or weight. But the fact is, the trophy/bling hunters would never consider those options. And when I say "hunters", I'm talking about adults. You will never make me believe that most kids are motivated by trophy/bling unless it's a learned thing. Like I said, some people are all about raising the bar. Right up to the point where they are asked to pull.
This is no different than the people who complain about the length of the season but yet are out there competing week in and week out from October till April. Then they ask us to regulate them from doing that. I don't need to have the season over by the high school state tournament because me and mine will always be there watching the big guys wrestle, regardless.

The tournaments mentioned are already some of the most expensive in the state. In some cases more expensive than the state tournament. So adding "5 bucks", will only make them moreso.

again you misread, i am the one who said i was upset with the kids in my club for going to maize. they went for belts, and found competition. the second part i can live with, and trust me we wrestle up in age so much, most people challenge birth certificates when we show up to subs. i am not only interested in competition you seem to have a bad case of selective reading.

give me a solution to the dying tournaments.

if not you are the problem so we will pass you by, actually it's probably already happened. you are in denial.

Talking to each other like that ain't going to help anything. We are looking into having a combine tournament with a couple of clubs that are close by. May open up a date or two but comes down to ego's ours and theirs. That is one big problem ego's a little is ok but some are just crazy. Find solutions in your area if it works then let others know. Start with the pieces of the puzzle then the big picture comes into view.