Well I just gave you one solution BUT, I am not part of the "sky is falling" crowd. I think as Beeson said, there are too many clubs and as a result too many trying to host tournaments. Left to it's own devices it will work itself out, as it did this year. Did any kid miss wrestling in a tournament this year due to the cancelations? This year was just an anomaly and I believe many clubs learned, or should have learned, a lesson about just how many tournaments can be scheduled in a district in one weekend.
To me, the state of wrestling in Kansas has never been better and will continue to improve if we control our greed. By that I mean, greedy parents wanting a bigger and better trophy for Johnny and greedy tournament directors taking more entries than their facilities can handle.

i don't think any kids missed any tournaments, however i think some clubs are struggling, finacially. maybe next year will be different, keep your fingers crossed. i hope more will put their egos in check and search for solutions, coop and combine, 1/2 the money from a touranment is better than 0, from a cancelation.

i agree with your greed statement, add to that learn to communicate with each other and i think you did just what i asked come up with something. thank you.

Ok, I did a little research and we are not as bad off as everyone thinks with tournaments cancelling. For most clubs, the season doesn't really start until January.

Dec 5 - 2 Tournaments 1 cancelled

Dec 12 - 3 Tournaments 1 cancelled

Dec 19 - 8 Tournaments 3 cancelled *2 would have a makeup date

Dec 26 - 2 Tournaments No Cancellations

Jan 2 - 8 Tournaments No Cancellations *USJOC Weekend

Jan 9 - 7 Tournaments No Cancellations

Jan 16 - 8 Tournaments 1 cancelled

Jan 23 - 9 Tournaments 4 cancelled *Tulsa Weekend

Jan 30 - 9 Tournaments No Cancellations *Salina Weekend

Feb 6 - 9 Tournaments No Cancellations *2 previously cancelled held makeup dates on this date

Feb 13 - 8 Tournaments 1 cancelled

Feb 20 - 5 Tournaments No Cancellations *1 previously cancelled held a makeup date on this date *High School State

Feb 27 - 7 Tournaments 1 cancelled *1 previously cancelled held a makeup date

Mar 6 - 6 Tournaments No Cancellations *2 previously cancelled held a makeup date

16 Tournaments cancelled their first date. 9 held makeup dates later in the year and held a tournament. 7 tournaments that were cancelled did not makeup the tournament.

It looks like Kansas Wrestling (Statewide) does not really get started until January 1st. Except for the week of Jan 23 which may have been an off week for alot of clubs, tournaments did very well in Kansas after January 1st.

The one thing that this does not show is the clubs that decided to stick it out and ended up losing money or just breaking even due to low entries!
Or the damage to the reputation of a tournaments level of competition due to lack of numbers. In other words clubs go else where next year.
That can have effects that last for years.

This doesn't say how many tournaments overbooked and ran too long, effecting next years turnout either. My point is, the sky is not falling. Kansas wrestling is doing great. After January 1st there were ten weeks on which to have a tournament. Six of those weekends had seven or more tournaments, two weekends had six, and two had nine. Some of those tournaments like having low numbers or 150-200, it works for them. It raises the funds they need and they get some mat time. Others would like to see their tournament grow, keep putting on good tournaments and that will happen. It doesn't happen in one year though. Finally there are some that are too big for their venue and need to set a cap on their entries. Those who do not get into "the big ones" will flow into the tourneys that are looking to grow. It will all even out. A series or Monopoly is not the answer.

How do you feel about clubs holding a tournament and a qualifier or two tournaments?
Is that a lost opportunity for other clubs?

Not a lost opportunity, because the qualifiers are voted on. I don't think a club would be very successful trying to run two open tournaments in the same year. I also don't have a problem with a club holding an open and a novice on two different weekends, or on the same weekend. I am saying give a choice. A series takes the choice out of equation. This is the tournament you have to attend.

now we are getting somewhere. i think it would be unfair to punish a club for hosting an open and a qualifier. it would be impossible to look up the tourneys that broke even or lost $$$.
i don't think anyone said the "sky was falling" yet everyone on this post agrees that tournaments have cancelled at a higher rate than before. i agree with those that overbook should cut back, sometimes easier said than done, and you have to overbook sometimes to know what overbooked is.

So like Bishop Carroll holding their tournament and districts and Derby does their open/novice tournament and novice state, that’s all OK in your book? That’s not a "Monopoly" in your book?
I think if a club wants to step up and do an open and qualifier then its ok. Yes it would be nice for a club without a tournament to be able to do one of these but someone’s got to step up and do it?
I’m asking so I can get an understanding of what people’s definition of monopoly is.
I mean people can choose not to go to Subs right???

Definition of monopoly is: A situation in which a single company or group owns all or nearly all of the market for a given type of product or service. By definition, monopoly is characterized by an absence of competition.

So Subs and districts? Is that not a monopoly?
Novice State? Is that not a monopoly?
6U State? Is that not a momopoly?


I’m not saying it is, I’m just trying to understand your definition.

Just like people would have a choice not to attend a series tournament. A series might just be the next step in the evolution of our sport. Remember about 3 years ago when Team Haysville started letting trusted clubs do home weigh ins and that kinda evolved into satellite weigh ins.
Everyone feared it! OMG!!! People are going to cheat the process and that is not in the tradition of our sport and blah blah blah.
Now its one of the things that is helping our sport grow.

I would ask that you being the D2 president not to be so quick to come on here and shoot things down so quick. You carry a lot of pull and that is why I am so very glad that you hold the position that you do. All I ask is that see the whole picture before you gun it down.

in my opinion those tournaments that had to cancel need to look at hosting a novice tournament this year. i like the open and novice splits but would rather see less small tournaments on saturday and keep the bigger ones we already have. novice needs more mat time than ever and probably will not travel out of state like some of the better kids. maybe there should be a novice tournament every weekend since that mat time is the most important thing for those kids. im not saying the series is going to be the best thing but for the best kids i think it would be another way to get the best of the best wrestling against each other more than just every now and then. then we can start taking more and more better kids to cliff keen and tulsa. thats where people notice how good kansas looks as a state.

I would just like to put this out there for you all to mull over a little bit. There are certain tournaments out there that my boy and I are not gonna miss ( kickoff, tulsa nationals, joc ) nomatter what. Now with that being said we also took off more weekends this year than ever and it had nothing to do with lack of competition or bad tournaments, it was all due to money. I am self employed contractor and have been pretty lucky to stay busy but when you get layed off and are only bringing half of what you used too, wrestling isn't as important as food or a roof.
I wanted to protect my funds and attend the biggest tournaments i could so we stayed home from the smaller ones, I am sure that people just were nbot wrestling as much this year because of money. Kansas wrestling is pretty good, if we could just get single brackets for all ages and weights, I say don't jump the gun on cancellations when half the state is layed off.

just an opinion Mike Pirl

blt makes some good points here, where does communication come in to play, when scheduling these tourneys. when is the deadline to set your tourney in stone. $$$ is very tight these days for everyone and everthing, more and more decisions are based on $$$ alone. i appreciate chad's honesty, and his willingness to participate in this discussion. let's keep working it out and come up with some good groundwork for next year.

The reason for some open tournaments and qualifiers is you have to keep the weekend with your venue or the next year you may not get it. So you do two tournaments so the next year you have a venue for one.

The "best" do not need to be wrestling each other every weekend. The pressure on the kids is incredible when they have to wrestle monster matches every weekend. How do you think 8 and 10 year old kids feel when everybody in the gym comes up to them and tells them how much they are looking forward to their match. PRESSURE, and then it becomes no fun. If your kid is one of "the best", take them to JOC, Tulsa, and other tournaments to find out. They don't need to be tested every weekend. They need to have fun most weekends.

If I personally do not agree with something I am going to voice my personal opinion. I am adamantly against this. I have given numerous reasons; Hurts local tournaments, belittles the State Series Tournaments, gives false achievment, will cost to much money, and most tournaments can not support a 1000 entry tournament. That is enough of the picture for me to believe it is bad for Kansas wrestling.

it will not cost too much, it will not change entries by that much, does not give false achievment because a kid wins over course of 6 tournaments rather than one tournament, so I will agree on it might belittle the state tournament. why does everyone think its adding more tournaments and changing things a ton from the way things are now. it might sway some of the better kids from other districts but overall it will be the best kids going for the series and thats what I want is for my son to wrestle the best competition and not go to a tournament and get a bye, then a match against a novice wrestler then a decent wrestler. That was my experience this year and thats why i am for change but if its going to change the meaning of being a state champion then I have to think differently.

If you are looking for tough competition for your kid here is a schedule for you:
Amarillo Nationals, Kickoff Classic, Park Hill Tournament, Park Hill Duals, JOC, AAU Winter Nationals, Tulsa Nationals, Salina, Liberty Nationals, Wichita Classic. None of these tournaments fall on the same weekend. If you win all of them you are pretty darn salty. For fun you could add in the Monster Match Nationals or Rocky Mountain Nationals in October for fun. Finish the year up with USA Nationals in Iowa.

i thought it was about saving money. i really dont think that is about saving money. I did the cliff keen, tulsa and missed salina due to a wedding. will not go to liberty or brute until they decide to charge a decent fee and not give the coaches all the bling. I dont go to tournaments for the hospitality room or to pay 90 dollars to coach then get a jacket or a shirt. will probably try the cotton bowl next year and probably go back to tulsa. I have 5 kids and 2 play on a travel basketball team so i have to spend wisely. 5 dollars extra for 5 or 6 tournaments is alot less expensive than all those tournaments you just named. if kansas is the way everyone against the series talks about then we should get that competition as my son will be at the bottom of 10 under next year. now if you want to sponsor a team kansas where we dont have to pay for all the travel expenses to those big tournaments then i am in.

How would travel be cut if we did a series of tournaments? Unless of course the plan is to have all of them in KC:)

you just add it to the tournaments that are already running in place. that has been the idea from the start. you take the tournaments like derby, maize, salina, wichita classic, western ks classic and one somewhere on the east side of kansas. that has been said from the get go. i dont have all the answers but those that are planning on starting the series hopefully do. you cant knock it til you try it and until we try it and it fails or succeeds i dont have a problem trying it. majority of the best kids in kansas go to those tournaments anyways. it would only draw a few other good kids from other areas at the same time maybe drop a few of the borderline good kids that could wrestle in the smaller tournaments to help those numbers. like i said i have no idea how it will turn out and how the final stages would be and dont think anyone else can say it will succeed or fail until it is put in place and attempted. yes kansas kids wrestling is good but not the best and hopefully thats a goal of those that do all that traveling. i want to be able to go to tulsa and have everyone else talking about kansas. i dont want to be like them i want to beat them.