I have been giving this some thought as I am sure many of us have and haven't put our two cents in. I can understand why some would want this series, but Chad makes some very valid points that can't be overlooked.

I would like to add this...When our club goes to a tournament, we go as a team with one exception...Salina. We split and have our less experienced kids go to Hoisington. That particular weekend is a nightmare for our coaches. One of these two tournaments (Hoisington or Salina) will not have enough coaches to adequately handle the number of wrestlers signed up. Additionally, some us dads/coaches have to miss our kids tournament to coach the other tournament.

If we have several weekends where we (the entire wrestling community) are FORCED to choose the series tournaments over what we normally choose to attend, I think possibly we will have parents of kids who aren't ready to attend these "toughter" tournaments get discouraged because they might feel like their kid is getting over looked. I think it's quite possible that clubs might split because of the hard feelings this may cuase. Just a thought...this might be a little extreme.

I don't see what is funny about that. What I do find sad is you putting a spin on this to make it look how you want. 1/3 of our regular season is out of state? Did you notice that 3 of the 5 tournaments you are crying about are before there are any Kansas tournaments.

As far as leaving District 2 only once for Salina. I'm sorry, but we believe in supporting the clubs that support our Tournament. The clubs of District 2. I guess if you would like we could miss Haysville next year and travel out of District on that date.



Except for a few clubs I did not see alot of traveling from the other Districts either. They were doing the same thing, supporting their Districts. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You can travel as much as you want or as little as you want. This schedule works for us.



And I will choose where I spend that money. I can guarantee it wont be on the series. Our schedule will not change much next year. We will probably add "Sprawl", and exchange another Districts tournament for Haysville. Just trying to walk around the yard, and I know you are for that.

I dont see how you can count tulsa kickoff & nationals & usjoc & two oklahoma tournaments BEFORE KS SEASON against them?? I see this as a loyal KS club. The roller tournaments are true national tournaments. They are the toughest kids tournaments in the nation!! I can understand why people go there, to see how they do against the best in the nation. We dont have that in kansas or any other state. This is a reason to wrestle out of state.

Greg Pelland does bring up a good point. Clubs would have to split coaching duties making it difficult for the club. I know when some of the team goes to Tulsa and USJOC the rest of the team goes to Valley Center and Bishop Carroll. This did make it difficult having enough coaches for both tournaments.

I still don't see how chasing the "points" For your award is going to improve KANSAS WRESTLING. THATS YOUR ARGUEMENT YOU WANT TO IMPROVE KANSAS WRESTLING BY HAVING A SERIES. Now how is your your series improving Kansas Wrestling.
LIKE IT OR NOT...
IT DOESN'T AND THATS A FACT

it improves it by having the best kids at the same tournament within the borders of kansas. thats how it helps kansas wrestling. enough with taking a small part here and a small part there to try and tear this thread up. when i first heard about the series i was all for it. now after all the discussion i have mixed thoughts on it. like head up says how the hell can you say it will not work if you have never even attempted it. if you dont want to do it then dont but dont sit there and say it doesnt work because its a fact that other states have done it and made it successful. those are the same states that are ahead of kansas at the highschool national level. im not saying that the series is the reason for that but there are some people that are trying to make a difference and others bitching about everything instead of doing something about it. if your with it then i say help out with your thoughts. if your against it then just dont do it. its that simple. but to say it will not make kansas wrestling better by putting the best kids together and giving that little something more to wrestle that much harder for will make it better. traveling 2-4 hours and getting 2 matches that may or may not be tough is not making kansas wrestling better. i am finally finished with this topic. i will still wrestle the same tournaments as we always have because the series probably wouldnt change that anyways.

ok this will be my final thought on this. i have talked to several coaches that like the idea and dont. one thing we have all agreed on is its not about the touraments and bling that make kids better. yes it pumps them up maybe a little bit. its the practice room and partners and structure that makes your kids that much better. going to tulsa and losing 2 matches every time does that really make you better. have a nice summer and cant wait to see you all next season with or without the series. i will not stop going to a tournament just because i dis-agree with someone on a certain topic.

Hey, here's a thought........ASK THE KIDS!! We can't because they are out playing, being kids, while we get on here and argue about things we don't even know if they want. Remember, it is about them and HAVING FUN!!
This is not directed at any one person, just thought everyone should take just a second and remember what this sport is about at this level....having fun. JMO

Wow Chad...
I didn't think when we PMd each other the other day that we were going to take this personal. I get the impression that you have.
I will say this...
If you think that you can find a tournament the same weekend as Haysville and you think that is best for your club and your wrestlers then I encourage you to do that. Just don't be petty and do it cause you disagree with someone over a talk fourm issue.
Again this is just something we would like to try to put together and wanted to get feedback on. If it happens or not is yet to be seen but if not I hope that someone steps up and does something cause I am a little concerned about some of the warning signs we are seeing.

BLT hate to tell you this but Kane Hutchinson is from D3. He is a Junction City boy. In our club we had kids at Park city, Hutchinson, Manhattan,Mulvane, Salina. Only district we didn't hit was D1. So we do travel we really don't hide out west. The series should be a choice. Some of the boys in our club won't travel far for what ever reason mom says no, money, time or even because they no the ability and do want the competion to each his own you will never get everyone to agree on this. BLT if you want it bad enough you will have to find a group of other people that do and fight for it cause it will be a fight. As for D4 most of us have to drive at the least 30 min at the most 4 hours just to wrestle in our own district. With that kinda drive time you can see why sometimes we don't travel out of district.

We already have a series that brings great kids to a series of tounaments. Wrestling season Some weekends are tougher than others? Everybody knows in the past the tougher tournaments Salina, Park City, Hays, Maize etc. We all go and every year we go hoping to do well like everyone else. What are you changing by calling a group of tournaments a series? You want some these tournaments to agree to this so you can create some sort of award? Being lucky enough to place of even win is enough of an award for us, especilly at these bigger tournaments. Now if your goal is to get these tournaments to work together so we don't have conflicting dates ie. Hays and Park City. Couldn't that be solved with a couple of phone calls? Wouldn't tournament directors want to get the best bang for there buch. But as we said before in this forum if Park City and Hays were on differnt days can Either place hold the capasities it might generate?

As coaches you want to make Kansas wrestling better continue your wrestling education. Go to clinics support camps and summer wrestling Get your kids involved in in summer wrestling Freestyle Greco. Teach you wrestlers to admire and inspire others by continuing to enjoy the sport year round. the other states that were always talking about Kansas is behind are the same states that start in oct have state in feb. And Freestyle and greco til april. And on any day of summer wrestling practice in OK, mo. Go in there and count the kids not busting thier butts but keeping it fresh and having a blast wrestling year round. We have practice every thursday optional And 1 Sunday a mounth for six hours the parents bbq and the kids take several breaks and have fun enjoying the time with all thier friends and team mates. Thats the key to making Kansas a better wrestling state

Jon I totally agree with you on that post. I have been saying that from the start. I would do freestyle and greco if it was sooner. I want my son to enjoy other sports as well. I would practice all summer once a week even with other clubs if he chose to. I would really like to be able to drive out west and wrestle the western kansas classic, wrestle the park city classic and an east kansas classic. im sure with the right people involved it could happen. might have to change a few things here and there but anything will work if the work is put into it to help make it work.

If there is a match you want your kid to wrestle, call the other kid's coach or parents and ask where they will be, what weight, and enter that tourney.

Sorry to use Oklahoma as an example again, but that series did NOT draw the best kids to each tourney. It drew the kids that the tourney was most convenient to.

Every year we went to any of the series tourneys, we had kids that were in the top 3 in points with us, that my kid NEVER WRESTLED!!

I really don't think the series would draw the kind of numbers you might hope for.

I agree with trying to get the Wichita and Western KS Classics to get different dates. But I don't agree we ought to give out ANOTHER award to the kids that accumulate the most points between the two, or 4, or 6 other tourneys that become part of the series.

My two cents worth. I don't think our club's schedule would change because of a series.

This being the case what I hear is we need to implement a way to influence communications between tournament directors to figure out a way to schdule tournaments to optimize club praticipation. If this is what we need maybe we could start a comitee of people by district to try to work with other districts to achieve the best schdule by working with each other.

I know thats easier said than done. As most tournaments are set in weekends that run around all school functions. But as we do it now, its every man for themselves and clubs just hope for a great turnout but maybe by cooperationing we can firgure out a way to fix some of the cancellations due to poor entry numbers? Which only hurts the clubs bottom lines. Which directly effects the kids due to money issues these clubs rely on.

Sorry, I just needed to get your attention. After I said we might schedule another tournament on your date, I called and let one of your coaches know that I had every intention of going to Haysville next year. My point is, which tournament would I have to scratch off of our schedule to chase the series points? Would that be fair to them, just because they weren't part of the series? How did you feel when you thought we would be dropping your tournament? Your feelings were hurt and you knew your club was going to miss out on our entry fees. This is one of the reasons why I am against the series. If your not part of the series, your tournament will suffer.

We will be at Haysville next year. No hard feelings big guy. Just wanted you to see what a series could do to tournaments and friendships.

there is hope here yet. wether its in the way of a series or other ways at least some of you guys are giving your input and trying to figure something out rather than say nothing will work. now we just have to figure out how to make it work together and show up in numbers at the nationals and let kansas make a move forward and not stay the same or take steps backward. you guys can say its because those other states wrestle year round all you want. if thats the case then so be it for them. its up to us to come up with something to beat that. i dont see my kids ever wrestling year round competatively but will practice throughout the summer some. would love to try freestyle and greco but its after a long folkstyle season and have already started baseball tournaments by that time. wrestling cant be perfect for everyone but we as a state need to come together and out do the rest. if your goal is to be in the top 10 then great. my goal is to be number one.

First I just want to say that my reply to your post was a honest one. I would NEVER fault you for taking your club or kid to a different tournament if you honestly did it for the betterment of the kids. I understand your point Chad. I undertsand all the points made on this issue. I just think that we have a group of highly motivated people in some key spots in this organization and maybe now is the time to try some new things and push some new ideas.
I can only speak from what I know... I'm not saying Haysville is Louis and Clark but we have been some of the first clubs to try new things for the betterment of our sport.
Five or Six years ago someone asked Haysville to try laptops at each table. They did it tanked and chased away a lot of people.
Then they asked Haysville to try a split format. At first people complained now its the standard.
Then we tried satellite weigh ins and seems to be catching on.
Last year we tried a girls division and it didn't work out that well.

Point I'm trying to make is sometimes someone needs to step up and try new things. If you want a district scheduling meeting then we will help. If you want to run a series we will help. Mat side weigh ins I don't know maybe we can talk. If someone has ideas then let them fly. But its always people gunning down everything and never attempting to suggest anything. It makes people not even want to try. I just think the sport needs to evolve and I just don't see it happening.
I won't give up on this. I'm going to listen to ideas and maybe tweek it a little and keep pushing change.

Change is not always good...it has to be positive change. We don't need to change just for the sake of changing. Some of the ideas you talked about "tanked", and the damage is hard to overcome.

By the way, alot of change happened this year. The High School Division was added, remote weigh-ins took off, Sprawl was added, and the Wichita Classic moved out of the barn. Lots of positive change, and more to come next year.

no harm seen here, if you don't want to don't, but don't try to tell me how to spend my money. no one would force you to do anything, your competitveness would take care of that.

blt i say find 3 other clubs (1 from each district) and start it up, if it works without beeson,luellen, trowbridge, sportsfan and others so be it. if it doesn't so what, those who stand around to tell you " i told you so" get their day in the sun. so what.

don't forget about track wrestling, it seemed to work out well. change is necessary, no matter what you are doing. you cannot deny it.