I for one do not think that our folkstyle season needs to be moved or shortened. I thimk that fs/gr should go longer than it does. This is my kids first year in it and he loves it.
If we are talking about letting kid be kids than why aer we not thinking about the kids that only wrestle and love it. We want to gripe and complain about length of season and my kids burning out, shorten the season move freestyle. It is all crap. If your kid wants to play baseball more than freestyle so be it, maybe he just doesn't love it as much as dad, but to talk about changing the entire setup to please those few that enjoy other sports more is crap.
My son is a wrestler by choice and in freestyle by choice, he starts in october by choice and wrestles almost every weekend by choice. I love the sport but I love HIM MORE. I do not push him into anything, it is his decision. Stop trying to take away and shorten what so many kids choose to do for the few that "burn out' just my opinion Mike Pirl

You know Chad...
I might be willing to wave the white flag on this series thing if you can address a few of my concerns and give me a brief preview of some of the things you plan to do next year to improve the sport (especially in D2). We talk about making KS wrestling better but these are real issues that make me shake my head every year. I’m not calling you out, I’m asking you because I know you will shoot me straight, you took your position to make an impact and we are friends.

1. I feel the tournament schedule is so jammed packed that a lot of the tournaments competition is diluted. How do we address this? CoOping smaller clubs? More novice events on Sundays? Trying not to have clubs hold 2 or 3 tournaments in the same season? Have a district tournament Coordinator?

2. I think someone should try to get Park City and Hays on different weekends. This would help people travel to other districts and see the best the whole state has to offer. Is there anyone (including yourself) willing to try to approach these people and see if this is do able?

3. There are issues in some of the weight classes. The bottom weights of 8U is filled with 6U kids but every year we are turning away good wrestlers that can’t wrestle their own age and weight class because they are too big. There are more true 8U kids that could fill a 140 pound Heavy Weight bracket then true 8U kids at 40/43/46 pounds.

4. How do we improve FS/GR numbers? I got to say that I dont think we could shorten the folkstyleseason any more then it already is. If we did it would add 2 or 3 more tournaments to every week of an already over crowded schedule!

Number 1 and 2 are my biggest concerns and motivation for pushing a series. Number 3 will always be my biggest pet peeve and number 4 is an issue that I think this thread has done a great job of shedding some light on to! If someone could give some ideas as to how to resolve these then maybe we could put this series idea on hold. If not, then either you are saying these are not real concerns OR maybe you would have to step back and try to support a series because doing something is better than doing NOTHING!!!

In District 2 it is not as jam packed as you might think. Starting Dec. 12th, District 2 has one tournament a week except for the following dates: Dec 26 (0), Jan 23 (2), Feb 6 (2), and Feb 20 (2). Two of those weekends the tournaments are about 2 hours apart. I'm not really sure there is a problem here.

There is not much one person can do here. I agree it would be great to get these two great tournaments on different weekends. I would suggest having everyone that wants to see this happen call both Tournament Directors and ask them to work together. I will be more than happy to call, but 100 calls would do more to help the cause.

Someone who has a personal interest needs to care enough to submit a proposal to the state. For three years this has been talked about on the forum, but not once has a proposal been submitted. Sometimes people need to take the bull by the horns and do something for themselves.

I think that it would be great to have Park City and Hays on different dates but do see a big problem. Don't know about Park City, never been there, but Hays cannot handle many more people. The coliseum is huge but it is still nearly full on the upper level. They can't put the seats out in the lower level without losing about 6 mats. (3 full mats divided in half). Can't imaging Park City is any bigger. Unless they move some of the age groups to the back gyms in the Coliseum they could never hold the crowd they would get. JMO

dont dis-agree with you mike but I think you have it the other way around. there are more kids that like to play other sports and a handful of kids like yours. just look at the numbers from the amount of kids that wrestle throughout the season and are done after state and not wrestling fs or gr. that number drops down a bunch so you may choose to wrestle but the majority of kids dont because they choose to do other sports. majority rules majority of the time.

Bockman You are right The number of kids doing GR/FS are way down compared to the number doing Folkstyle. Mike is also right the kids that do GR/FS and another sport are way ahead of the kids that stop wrestling after States. I have a kid who has only wrestled 3 and 1/2 seasons and been a state qualifier for the past two seasons. and He owes alot of his success to doing 2 years of GR/FS. He also plays baseball during the GR/FS season. We only hit tournament every other weekend or so and then states and Southern plains. I think if we really wanted to improve Kansas wrestling we need to push GR/FS and get more kids wrestling those styles. Plus the laid back enviroment in GR/FS practice and tournaments is a good relief after Folkstyle and most of the kids really do it to have fun and enjoy the mat time. I know as a coach and a dad the GR/FS season is alot of fun without the stresses that are seen in Folkstyle (overcrowded gyms, long drawn out tournaments, parents crowded around the matside so you can't see and so on).

Andrew Steele

I agree with you guys but in my case I have 5 kids total. They all play several different sports throughout the year. I have to make time for those other kids at the same time and therefore dont have the time to do fs and gr the way its set up now. I know im not the only one in this situation cause there are alot of catholics out there with large families. I would love to have the time to be able to fit it in but it wont be fair to the other kids on his baseball team to miss practice for that to go to fs and gr practice. thats just my situation. I am all for those who can find time for it. most of those that do it dont have the same situation as i do. Im happy for them and wish them the best of luck. My son was a state champion and he doesnt do fs and gr. He also played basketball in the middle of wrestling season and missed quite a few wrestling practices. The sky is the limit for my son and its up to him to decide when he will do fs and gr. But for now he asks me to take him fishing, dad lets go camping, dad lets go ride go-carts. thats whats important to me and he is having fun being a kid and enjoying his time off from wrestling. Once again that is just my situation and not everyones.

Very well said Scott. My son was 2nd at State, lost to Scott's son in finals and he is the same way.....let's go fishing!!!! So, until he asks to do FS/GR we prob. won't. But as soon as he decides to do it, we will find practices and go. Agree that it can only help him but I WILL NOT push him into it. He feels that wrestling season is long enough and was ready to start fishing bout 4 hours after we left the Expo-Center. Plus he has 8 other kids counting on him for baseball, or there is not enough for a team. That's just the way it is in many small communities. You play the sport in season.

I also look at it like this. What if my son chooses not to do wrestling at all. At least he has other sports to fall back on and enjoy. Those kids that only wrestle what do they fall back on if they choose not to wrestle. You might say we will deal with that if that ever comes. For me its already in place with the other sports. Im sure not everyone will agree with me on this but thats ok with me and Im ok with it. someone said i was smiling and proud of the path we have chosen for my son. well your right i am very proud of all 5 kids and what they have chosen to do not what I have chosen for them. by the way im very proud of them with their manners and behavior and honor rolls at school. I guess those things are the bling.

I think a split session like Wichita Classic would ease the crowding problems. Even Tulsa, Reno, etc. do the split sessions now

I do understand the with large families and other sports and fishing, camping and so on. Of my two boys only one does GR/FS and he would rather do GR/FS than Folkstyle. He does a very nice job of working with the other 9 players on his baseball team. Wife and I had him work out a plan so he would not hurt his baseball team by wrestling. The small town comments are justified but alot of us in Kansas have the same problems with having the enough kids or driving to play sports weather its wrestling, baseball football or what ever. Right now by two boys don't even play for the same small town in baseball (one plays in our town and the other plays in a town 25 miles away). To tie this back into wrestling and the series; when I can drive two hours and find tough competition (The Witchita area, Salina, Hays I don't see the need to create a seris where I have to drive further to wrestle in series tournaments or tell my wrestler no you can't compete in the series. How does do this help Kansas wrestling? Yes I know my son is not a state placer in Folkstyle but is a past state champion and state placer in GR/FS (the two styles he prefers) does that mean he should not be included? and how would creating a series help make him better in Folkstyle?

I just have one question, who called the Truce? I have been following this thread since its inception.

I haven't been participating much because we have been a little busy (High School track for the oldest, Jr High track and club soccer for my second oldest not to mention competing as an alternate at the MS Dual Nationals, youth soccer and a music concert for my 6 year old, and chasing the 3 year old wherever he goes). Just finished 5 1/2 months of wrestling Jr High and Kids (78 matches). Oh, and I forgot, my job driving an hour each direction and my wife running her daycare, taking kids to school, picking up from track practice, taking to soccer practice (twice a week in the same day after school), going to the track meets if we can fit them in, and so on, and so on. This weekend, baseball try outs for the second son. T-ball soon to follow for the third son. Still chasing the 3 year old wherever he goes. Almost forgot, the oldest two getting their homework done so they can continue to pull good grades. Almost forgot, oldest son competing in High School soccer and marching band in the fall/winter season.

Would my son be a better wrestler if he did Greco and Freestyle during the summer? I know that he would. Do we have time for him to do it? I don't think so. Will he be a solid High School wrestler? I think he will compete very well. Anyone who knows anything about wrestling knows that Greco and Freestyle would make a wrestler better. The reason they have not grown, at least in my opinion, is because families are stretched to the limit already. Having a kid wrestle year around is also a grind, if you have that option. For us, and I am sure many others, that is why we don't compete in the Greco and Freestyle season. I love wrestling, I wish my son could be the best, but I realize that our family has commitments to all four of our boys, and we need to be involved with all of them as much as we can.

If this thread sounds like it goes on and on, non-stop, chaotic, rambling, rumbling and bumbling, well that is what our lives feel like 24/7, 365.

Beeson and BLT. look here. I am personally involved in the weight classes that are not right. and another thing, Robert King choosed freestyle/greco for a reason.He is tough and wants another chance to go to state next year. Beeson, we picked you for district 2 for a reason. we thought you represent well and get things done. pm me and we will talk.thanks.Charlie King/ Wi chita Aztecas

i noticed that #4 was not answered. why? why do we keep shortening the fs/gr season? if nobody in the organization wants it, why not let fs/gr go on their own? we only have 4-5 weeks this year and not one tourny in the area. we will be traveling to dist. 1 and dist. 4 for tournys. I know that district 2 is better than that. come on, throw the kids that want to wrestle in the summer a bone and give them a little support.

ReDPloyd - Yes we are all busy. I only have two kids but right now they are active in 4 different sports, The wife and I both work (I only drive 45 minutes one way) then there is city council, school board meeting, city improvement commity meetings and qualility family time. As a parents the wife and I find a way if our kids want it and it is possible. We could compare everyone's schedule but let talk about the orginal Post... How does having a series help Kansas wrestling when we have an award for those that wrestle all three styles. We don't need to create any more awards for kids who wrestle Folkstyle and can travel all over the state during folkstyle. We already reward those wrestlers who seek out the best competition to improve them selves with a State Championship series at the end of the season. Or does your life slow down enough during the winter so you can drive 6-8 hours in the winter to wresle in every corner of Kansas? Mine doesn't.

My observation… throughout this thread, the intention has been to help Kansas wrestling become stronger and more competitive. I am indifferent to a series and simply see it as an honest attempt to do something for kids. It will not influence our decision on where to go on the weekends, but it may others. I guess I see it as no harm, no foul, JMO.

Throughout this thread, it’s been expressed over and over that the way to strengthen Kansas wrestling is not through a series, but rather the increased participation in FS/Greco. It seems that whether a family can make it work or not, the timing of the season is tough for many. We competed in several tournaments and state last year, and are trying to fit practices in this year. So yes, I am biased and it is a struggle for us this time of the year. I'm not complaining as we chose to make it work last year and are simply choosing to make an attempt this year. Shortening the season by a month, as odd it may seem actually hurt us, but it’s not about us, or any other individual family, it’s about strengthening the participation in these styles.

I guess, my question, if we agree that it will help Kansas kids, how do we strengthen FS/Greco? We know one obstacle is when the season occurs, are there others? Are there things that can be done to sustain the current participation, while bringing in some of the others?

Not sure of the etiquette, so if I need to move this to another thread, please let me know.

Michael Doud

The one thing that I see stressed over and over is that the State Series is enough and we don't need a KS Series. To me this gives the state series way too much credit. Anytime people are being excluded from participation from such an event then it is not entirely legitimate in my opinion. Granted nothing is perfect and people are doing the best they can, but still some things are glaringly obvious here. Go to a couple of National Tournaments and you start to grow up a little bit. KS has some great wrestling going on but if you think the state series is tough then you are mistaken and misguided.

Aside from that there is money or the lack of it. I would much rather travel and spend money on an event where I know I am going wrestle in my own age group and in my own weight class as to travel somewhere and just hope that someone shows up and find out 20 min before the tournament starts if I'm going to be bumped up an age/weight group or not. Not all of us have deep pockets and can take a chance like that every weekend. This is why I think the series would be beneficial. It is more likely to draw people from different areas of the state or out of state who might not otherwise get a chance to wrestle thereby creating more matches that would not be available otherwise. Thus saving people time and money in an otherwise expensive sport. This is the reality of a series. You can have as many club meets as you want and crowd up the weekends with 7 tournaments all across the state, but the kids who want to wrestle against the tough kids and have some matches will be at the Series Tournaments where the real action will be if they want to get better.

I can see why some of the club tournament directors would be shy of wanting a series to happen. They'd have to admit that their tournament wasn't the best one to be at that weekend. Big pill to swallow I guess. That is why everyone should be making strides to ensure that when the Series becomes a reality that they get their house in order and make it happen for their club. Otherwise, they will be losing out on a great wrestling day.

FS/Greco, we would love to do it and would prob be successful at it as well. We aren't doing anything right now sport wise till AAU track starts up. Problem is that we have to travel an hour one way to practice with anyone and we really can't afford that. So unless someone wants to sponsor him or find a different way to get in some practices. We are just plain stuck. I really don't think we are all that different from most people out there. There is a will but the way is either too difficult or unrealistic for the common man or for those who live outside of the big cities. That is why I advocated running the season concurrently with Folkstyle in some way. That way you'd get the best of both worlds and still get it done in a timely fashion using the facilities that are already being utilized.

Thanks, Troy

O.k. I've read all the posts on this and all are great points. My boys play ball; so to say they won't advance in folkstyle if they don't do freestyle is wrong. They never have done freestyle and still have great sucess. Kids should be kids no matter what sport. Take a look at yourselves who really wants this, the kid or the dad. If your kid can multi_ task then more power to him. Lots of running on the parents part. But do not say freestyle makes a great wrestler. Hard work and determination make a great wrestler. Imo.