If you want to wrestle the best competition then go find it. My youngest son traveled to different tournaments than our club to find the best in the state. He had either wrestled or watched everyone in his bracket at state wrestle. We did not drive for more than 2 and a half hours for a tournament except for one (Pratt). If you are not finding the toughest competition then you are not looking in the right places

Good Catch there Chad!!!
I should of been more clear!
With the idea of the series driving more competition, we are looking for more competition NOW! You are right. With our schedule (very close to yours) we didnt get to see the best on a regular basis. It was our schedule and the lack of people traveling outside their own walls that made us see the same kids over and over.

Were we looking for competition at the tournaments we went to???
Weighed an avg of 105 pounds
We wrestled
10U 110 for most of the year! At this weight we had multiple state champions and state runner ups each and every week.

12 110 when we double dipped in a few KS and OK tournaments.

10U 120 a few times plus we also had a few combined brackets. Giving up over 15% of your body weight can be tough!

12U 105 got to see Jaymez Turner! That was a butt whooping!

10U 100 towards the end of the season TF the state runner up!
Pinned the kid that took 5th. So for state we moved back up to 110 and weighed in at 102 at state cause in our opinion thats where the toughest competition was.

We looked for it and we found it from time to time! But it was the lack of travel within our own state that hurt us in the end. We didnt go see the D1 and D4 kids and they didnt come see us. Crossing those district lines a few more times a year will only make for stronger wrestlers.
I hope that the series would encourage that.
Thats the main focus behind the series. Motivate, encourage, entice, reward (you pick the word) kids and clubs to seek out the great competition with in KS on a more regular basis.
I wish we would all just do it on our own but we can't and we don't.
WHY DON'T WE????
We try to stay loyal to the clubs close to us so that when our tournament rolls around hopefully they are loyal to us!
There is the cost of money and time that is involved in travel.
Plus there are some kids that consistantly take 1st within their little area and why would they want to venture out and risk that?
The series is that incentive!

Are you talking Colton Steele???

So we need incentive to find competition? If I don't get rewarded for trying, why should I try? The reward of having a good match isn't enough?

Sorry still not making sense.

Here is my problem. If I am wrong, then all we do is not give out an award for traveling the state.

If you are wrong, tournaments suffer and clubs get smaller or even die out. Remember Oklahoma averages 2 tournaments a week, Kansas averages 6. Kansas wrestling will suffer if you are wrong, at worst it will stay the same if I am wrong.

your all right. the series is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Its just no good for anything. All it is, is just like the triple crown and that is just another award that would be awarding those that do it. Im glad im over this cause now I dont have to listen to all the close minded people that just have their own idea and if your not with that then you must suck. Lance I say good luck trying to get this started because with all the negative your gonna need it.

Maybe the interpretation is going astray here. Most clubs in KS don't send their entire club to Hays, Park City, Salina, Derby, etc.. as these are considered tough tournaments. Some do but that is because it is either close for them or they have a part in it.

Most clubs send in what they think would be their toughest kids who can compete to these tougher meets. A lot of clubs out West send some of their studs to Wichita to get in some serious mat time way before state time. That's not by accident, that's by design. Why shouldn't we encourage the same to go to them. I bet Ulysses or Liberal would love to host a series tournament and have some Wichita or KC area kids come their way once in awhile. Do I see entire teams going out there, absolutely not. But at least they would get some people to come and give them a hard time in their backyard. Right now there is very little incentive to go out there unless your just curious or are going to wrestle someone specifically.

Lets face it, wrestling teams are stratified as far as the competition goes. Not everyone on your team is high caliber and not everyone is novice. Some kids need a challenge every week to stay motivated or improve, some don't. But if you send your entire team to one tournament a week then some of your kids are being robbed of better matches somewhere else.

I know a lot of parents are perfectly fine never wrestling outside of the Wichita City Metro area until state time rolls around. If that's what they want then fine, but that's pretty narrow minded if you ask me. Of course Kansans can be pretty narrow minded sometimes, me being a cheer leader myself possibly. KS is a darn big state and the wrestling doesn't stop in Wichita there are lots of places to go and support wrestling in this state if your inclined to do so. Why should Wichita be the end of the line for everyone else.

If the series thing goes ahead, look at it this way. It will encourage the higher caliber kids to attend, doesn't mean they will all be high caliber but the emphasis is there. It also doesn't mean you have to send the entire team to everyone of them either. Take your kids who are still developing to the local tournaments let them duke it out with like kids. Nobody on here ever said don't support your local tournaments, I encourage that and have done so when it was appropriate for us.

I know for a fact that not all the series tournaments in OK are packed to the hilt, some are well attended some aren't. Most have limited entries etc.. just like we do. Not everyone goes to Lawton, OK for example. They usually have enough of them though to get decent coverage for the state and more involvement. There is no pressure to attend them and teams still put on plenty of their own local tournaments. The difference is the competition is usually a little higher caliber at the Series tournaments but that is also a matter of debate even among Okies. We only do a few of them ourselves, mostly due to our finances and availability. Got some nice T-shirts for our involvement and that's it. Nothing bright or shiny or heavy.

Here's something else to consider. There were a lot of cancelled tournaments this year for one reason or another. No series involved by the way. Did the clubs that were to host those tournaments all fold up and die? No, they didn't. They have had to make changes and adapted, just like everyone else has had to do. Attrition, is something that happens all the time. Sometimes it's a terrible thing and sometimes it leads to better things. I don't think anyone has a clear enough crystal ball at this point to say what would happen one way or another if a series were added. There are a lot more factors involved in how clubs, tournaments, and people will deal with things in the future, regardless of there being a Series in KS or not.

More fodder for the thread that would not die. Ha ha Troy

Here is the difference, Folkstyle State, Freestyle State, and Greco State are recognized by the State of Kansas. The Triple Crown is an Award recognized by the State of Kansas.

The series is not.

Come on Scott, your not over this. You have posted your last post on this subject at least 10 times. You will post again.

Sorry Bockman, your vote doesn't count. There are only 2 votes that count, my 2 boys.

Its funny cause in Oklahoma, the series has been such a sucess that the OKWA is trying to incorparate that into their schedule as a recognized event.

No one is stopping you from moving to Oklahoma. Just remember if you do, you will only have the option of two tournaments a week instead of six.

And what do you mean they are trying, either they have the votes or they don't. As a wise Jedi master once said "There is no Try, only do or do not."

[
If you are wrong, tournaments suffer and clubs get smaller or even die out. Remember Oklahoma averages 2 tournaments a week, Kansas averages 6. Kansas wrestling will suffer if you are wrong, at worst it will stay the same if I am wrong. [/quote]

Beeson, I agree with most of what you are saying-I dont participate with our team in the series, for various reasons. But, go to the link
(http://okseries.com/cgi/calendar.cgi) there are very few weekends in Oklahoma with only two tournaments. The series tournaments are, of course the toughest for the most part, but not the only place to find tough matches. I think even if the series disbanded, those tourneys would still draw the competition because of facilities, history, etc more so than the sweatshirt they get at the end.

Does Kansas need to copy what we do in OK? NO! But, I can see the point of getting out of your comfort zone 2 or three times a year, whether it be with Tulsa Nats, Kickoff, whatever.

Since we have been making up all of this stuff about FS GR (summer wrestling) making you better, without seeing it first hand with our own kids, other clubs' kids, etc., I looked around to see if anyone was as good at making this stuff up as I am, and I found this from one of the Team USA coaches. He is so full of Sh&t, how can he keep a straight face while telling us this crap?;)

March 3, 2009--Zeke Jones Team USA

WHAT WILL FREESTYLE WRESTLING DO FOR YOU?



1. Freestyle wrestling is fun. It’s exciting, creative, and dynamic because you can score points from almost anywhere. You will receive more points for a spectacular throw, five points, than you do a normal takedown, one point. Freestyle rewards wrestlers for taking risk which creates more excitement and as a result takes less control of your opponent to score. Take the risk to flip him to his back, without even controlling him and get two points. The great thing about freestyle wrestling is you can even throw a guy over your head, which is legal, and if you do it with proper technique, style, and flair and the referee will reward you with a five point move. Many wrestlers that we have spoken to love freestyle because it’s fast, exciting, and it was easier to score points. Most freestyle matches also are mostly on your feet in the neutral position. Everyone loves to go takedowns. That's 80% of freestyle wrestling.



2. If your goal is to be a city champion, league champion, state champion or state placer, (or a great referee or coach) and a lofty goal I might add, freestyle increases your chances dramatically. If one wrestler is getting 40 matches a year in the high school or junior high season and another wrestler is getting those same 40 matches plus 30 matches in the freestyle season whom do you think is going to get better at a faster rate? The wrestler with more matches. More competition will give you more opportunities to improve your technique, skill, and mat strategy. More minutes on the mat = more wins. Are your high school, junior high or elementary opponents going to freestyle tournaments? If they are and you’re not, then your competitors are getting ahead of you. Don’t let them. The best wrestlers in the state are going to these tournaments. You should too.



3. Freestyle wrestling is for everyone. Whether you’re a beginner or an advanced wrestler, boy or girl, big or small, five years old or seventy five years old there’s a freestyle tournament that is right for you. There are many novice freestyle wrestling tournaments all over the nation that will give you an opportunity to try freestyle for the first time. Are you really good and looking for a challenge? Go to the biggest and the best tournaments in the world in your age group. Tournaments like the Cadet or Junior Nationals attract the best wrestlers in the United States.



4. If you’re a good high school wrestler, freestyle wrestling will increase your opportunity to earn a college wrestling scholarship. Many of the NCAA Division I college coaches travel to USA Wrestling’s Junior and Cadet Nationals to watch the best wrestlers in the nation with the goal of attracting the best high school wrestlers to come to their university. Unless you are a multiple high school state champion from Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, New Jersey, or California, you will need to wrestle freestyle to receive the exposure so college coaches will believe you can compete at a national level. Beat a state champion from Pennsylvania, Ohio, or New York in a freestyle tournament and you will receive strong consideration for a college wrestling scholarship. In other words, if you are a state champion in a smaller populated state your chances of getting a wrestling scholarship are minimal to none.



Wrestle freestyle and increase your chances of earning a scholarship dramatically. College coaches need to know that you can compete against the best in the nation before they will feel comfortable offering you scholarship money. College coaches get excited knowing that when a wrestler comes into their program that they might become not only an NCAA Champion but also a World and Olympic Champion. Dream to become a World and Olympic Champion.



The time is now to learn freestyle wrestling. Whether you just want to improve your wrestling technique and skill, become a state placer or champion, or even want to become a World and Olympic Champion, freestyle wrestling is mandatory to become successful. If you have high wrestling goals, freestyle wrestling must be a part of your yearly wrestling plan.



We are committed to helping you learn freestyle and you, we're sure, will find it exciting. We look forward to seeing you at a freestyle tournament!



Sincerely,

Coach Jones

Wow unbelievable! If you think I am going to spend my hard earned money and spend my valuable time driving my kid around the country doing freestyle you are crazy. That USA coach doesn't know crap. If my son can win the Cowley County Crown and maybe place at Salina, then he should be good enough to go to the next level. Doug, can you take him to St. James Saturday. Thanks in advance.

I have one of those platforms that slides into my receiver hitch on my truck, I have some ratchet straps that I think will hold him down. He can ride there. I know the little SOB will eat Taco Tico Friday night just to stink me out of the truck...............

BLT -
Yes I was talking about Colton Steele from Herington not the other Colton Steele who wrestles 12 & U

WOW I have loved reading all 38 pages of this post. I have a few thoughts on this.

First when I came to the Kids Council with the idea of a Kansas Triple Crown it was to promote Freestyle/Greco. At the time we started the KTC we were looking for ways to promote summer wrestling.

Second, a couple years after that I came to the Kids Council with the idea of creating a Kansas Series. It was only suggested to reward and spend some money on kids who wrestle folkstyle. The Kids that wrestle folkstyle make up the majority of our spending dollars in Kansas and I wanted to find a way to give back to them in a fun way during there season. It's not about wrestling the best tournaments, or finding the best wrestler, or trying to cut out the litttle tournaments that we need to have. It was about coming up with a award for the FOLKSTYLE WRESTLER.

Just my thoughts.

Ned Price

exactly Ned, well said. sometimes we have to ask the "kids" what they want and where they want to wrestle. So yes, sometimes it is about the "bling". Is that a good reason to do stuff in wrestling? for the super duper serious ones probably not, but for the vast majority its what the kids want. If they want to go to a tourny for the "bling", then we go. If the bottom line of what I have read throughout all the posts at times, its about keeping kids in the sport. The best part of this sport is the life lessons they get. Hard work and determination leads to success. If that means chasing "bling" then so be it. The more wrestlers invovled will also lead to more competition. Which is what the non"blingers" want. Both sides can be ahppy. Can we all just get along.

If it's in the spirit of giving back to the wrestlers, maybe we need to look at those wrestlers who take second or third week in and week out. Those are the wrestlers that may need just that little extra drive (like winning some special "bling") not the studs that win the big tournament. Maybe we should come up with a way to reward the wrestler who bust their butts and always come up just allitle bit short. IMO these kids are the ones that have more of a chance of getting discouraged and leaving the sport. It might help if we could find a way to get them a little extra "bling"

Andrew Steele

I can't stop you all from making up some phony award. Have fun, give the kids whatever they want. Apparantly the kids are running things, not the adults. Andrew is right, its not the kids that win every weekend that get discouraged, its the ones that don't. Those are the kids that are staying in for the right reasons, for the love of the sport. Not because they get the bling. Take the bling out and do it for the love of wrestling and lets see how many of you champions stick around.