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Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Cokeley] #172161 08/20/10 02:12 PM
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GregMann Offline
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Will,

I was starting to get worried as there was no mention of the winged-devil, running dog KSHSAA in the above explanation; but you came through at the end! grin



Greg Mann
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Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Cokeley] #172164 08/20/10 06:26 PM
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Why don't more teams from Kansas go to the Toshiba Nationals in Kansas City. It is a great tournament and ran very well. The competition is very high, and it gets some good college recognition. People always argue that Kansas teams can't travel, but that is within the allowed area.

Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: tommytuffnutz] #172170 08/21/10 05:08 AM
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Cokeley Offline
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Nutz,

All of the Johnson County High Schools participate in the Johnson County Classic that weekend. I begged our coach to pull out so we could enter this tournament. I agree, it is the best tournament within the Kansas travel limit to find awesome competition. Soom coaches shy away because a wrestler could go 0-8 at this event. Lots of mat time but a real downer to your confidence!


Will Cokeley
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Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Cokeley] #172172 08/21/10 07:54 AM
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saveca Offline OP
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Will,

While in Vegas this weekend I was speaking with a college coach who had just received an email from you regarding your son, I thought this was ironic. As for the Toshiba Event I can tell you that Vegas would likely be a great place to network with coaches from our top programs. Clovis went to Powerade two years ago, Ironman last year, and Cheesehead this year.

www.nuwayvegas.com

Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Cokeley] #172179 08/21/10 11:35 AM
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Ben Dover Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cokeley
Bend,

I am not sure where you get "top 5%" and "every weekend". I think you might be missing the point. Super 32 was one tournament that attracted high school wrestlers from across the country the other being the USA Junior Nationals in Fargo. What made them great is that there were no other options so many of the best kids and lots of the other 95% too gathered in one place creating some super brakets. (I will admit that above 152 many wrestlers play football and were missing from Super 32.) This type of gathering attracts college coaches who have VERY limited budgets to recruit with so they seek tournaments such as NHSCA, Fargo, and Super 32 where they can view many, many college prospects. The Vegas event doesn't really seem to be about just creating another opportunity as it would have been scheduled on a different weekend. It has the appearance of trying to compete against the reputation of Super 32 by advertisiing that they have this or that wrestler who ranked and from OH or some other far away state. In my opinion, if their mission is to save CA College wrestling they would have had this event the weekend before on the campus of one of their remaining programs (perhaps Fullerton since they just received the axe for the second time) to raise money and awareness for those programs. This would have given kids from all over the country the choise to attend both instead of watering down the overall competitiveness of both by scheduling them at the same time. Splitting the numbers up also makes both events less atractive to a fiscally responsible college coach. For us in Kansas, the best places to get noticed are the aforementioned big 3 because our communistic high school organization made up of member schools administrators doesn't have the vision to see that they are hurting our best wrestlers and wrestling teams by not allowing them to compete in the big 3 HS tournaments (RTOC, Beast, and Ironman) or any tournament more than 500 miles from Kansas. However, our bands can travel to the four corners of the US and to Europe if they want to! I digress.

Bottom line Bend, less super events means less exposure to college coaches and that sucks.



Didn’t think I would have to show my work! But here we go. The 5% number was a conservative estimation of the number of “Top Level” (Top 20 ranked) kids that would be desirable to have at a National Tournament.
The NFHS reported 259,688 high school wrestlers for the 2007-2008 season. This was a 2,422wrestler increase from the year before, this continued an upward trend. So lets conservatively say we have 260,000 High School wrestlers(I like round numbers)

For this sample lets eliminate half of these kids because they are playing football. That brings us down to 130,000. Again lets try to be somewhat realistic with these numbers and eliminate 3/4 of these kids because they aren’t serious enough wrestlers to participate in any preseason tournament. That brings us to 32,000 wrestlers that might consider participating in a preseason tournament ,if it was available close enough to home.

Now if the Supper 32 truly had the best 20 kids in the country at each weight class that would be only 280 wrestlers. Note! This 280 number is greatly inflated! Even if this were the only preseason Tournament in the county you would not get half this number because of football , travel expense, ect.

. As it stands now 280 is under 1% of 32,000. It seems to me that to better serve the majority of wrestlers we need more opportunities not less.

Last edited by Ben Dover; 08/21/10 11:42 AM.

Steve Earle
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: tommytuffnutz] #172180 08/21/10 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: tommytuffnutz
Why don't more teams from Kansas go to the Toshiba Nationals in Kansas City. It is a great tournament and ran very well. The competition is very high, and it gets some good college recognition. People always argue that Kansas teams can't travel, but that is within the allowed area.


Lansing "should" represent us this year at Toshiba!


Eric Johnson


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Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Chief Renegade] #172181 08/21/10 11:47 AM
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More tournaments on the same weekend, more money to be made, more liklihood that the best kids from each coast will never meet.


Eric Johnson


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Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Chief Renegade] #172182 08/21/10 12:03 PM
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Yes you are right! If having the top 280 kids in the country meet each other, while the other 90% of wrestlers sit at home is your goal, then yes more opportunities are a BAD THING.

Last edited by Ben Dover; 08/21/10 12:07 PM.

Steve Earle
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Ben Dover] #172184 08/21/10 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ben Dover
Yes you are right! If having the top 280 kids in the country meet each other, while the other 90% of wrestlers sit at home is your goal, then yes more opportunities are a BAD THING.


We should have 10 state tournaments in Kansas then. More opportunities.


Eric Johnson


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Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Chief Renegade] #172186 08/21/10 12:22 PM
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I assume then that durring the Kids Folkstyle season you would only support one tournament a week in Kansas, and totally elliminate the novice tournaments as well. If the top wrestlers are not facing each other whats the point! Actually it might be better to eliminate all kansas tournaments so our top wrestlers can travel only to national tournaments in order to find the other top wrestlers.

Last edited by Ben Dover; 08/21/10 12:30 PM.

Steve Earle
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Ben Dover] #172188 08/21/10 12:52 PM
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Or lower the travel limit to 30 miles. Bend, Would you applaud the idea of having two more tournaments recruit kids away from Fargo or NHSCA Nationals? Would you support splitting Kids state into two diffrent classes? We are not talking about "every" weekend. It's just about a few national events that allow us to finally see the top guys meet. The other 49 weeks, load them up.


Eric Johnson


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Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Ben Dover] #172202 08/22/10 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ben Dover
Originally Posted By: Cokeley
Bend,

I am not sure where you get "top 5%" and "every weekend". I think you might be missing the point. Super 32 was one tournament that attracted high school wrestlers from across the country the other being the USA Junior Nationals in Fargo. What made them great is that there were no other options so many of the best kids and lots of the other 95% too gathered in one place creating some super brakets. (I will admit that above 152 many wrestlers play football and were missing from Super 32.) This type of gathering attracts college coaches who have VERY limited budgets to recruit with so they seek tournaments such as NHSCA, Fargo, and Super 32 where they can view many, many college prospects. The Vegas event doesn't really seem to be about just creating another opportunity as it would have been scheduled on a different weekend. It has the appearance of trying to compete against the reputation of Super 32 by advertisiing that they have this or that wrestler who ranked and from OH or some other far away state. In my opinion, if their mission is to save CA College wrestling they would have had this event the weekend before on the campus of one of their remaining programs (perhaps Fullerton since they just received the axe for the second time) to raise money and awareness for those programs. This would have given kids from all over the country the choise to attend both instead of watering down the overall competitiveness of both by scheduling them at the same time. Splitting the numbers up also makes both events less atractive to a fiscally responsible college coach. For us in Kansas, the best places to get noticed are the aforementioned big 3 because our communistic high school organization made up of member schools administrators doesn't have the vision to see that they are hurting our best wrestlers and wrestling teams by not allowing them to compete in the big 3 HS tournaments (RTOC, Beast, and Ironman) or any tournament more than 500 miles from Kansas. However, our bands can travel to the four corners of the US and to Europe if they want to! I digress.

Bottom line Bend, less super events means less exposure to college coaches and that sucks.



Didn’t think I would have to show my work! But here we go. The 5% number was a conservative estimation of the number of “Top Level” (Top 20 ranked) kids that would be desirable to have at a National Tournament.
The NFHS reported 259,688 high school wrestlers for the 2007-2008 season. This was a 2,422wrestler increase from the year before, this continued an upward trend. So lets conservatively say we have 260,000 High School wrestlers(I like round numbers)

For this sample lets eliminate half of these kids because they are playing football. That brings us down to 130,000. Again lets try to be somewhat realistic with these numbers and eliminate 3/4 of these kids because they aren’t serious enough wrestlers to participate in any preseason tournament. That brings us to 32,000 wrestlers that might consider participating in a preseason tournament ,if it was available close enough to home.

Now if the Supper 32 truly had the best 20 kids in the country at each weight class that would be only 280 wrestlers. Note! This 280 number is greatly inflated! Even if this were the only preseason Tournament in the county you would not get half this number because of football , travel expense, ect.

. As it stands now 280 is under 1% of 32,000. It seems to me that to better serve the majority of wrestlers we need more opportunities not less.


Super 32 cuts off entries at 1250. In 2009 they allowed past placers to enter early and then they opened it up to the general wrestling population. The quota was met in under and hour!! Additional entries were added and some spots were auctioned on ebay for charitable causes. Nearly all of the brackets 152 and below had over one hundred entries and some had 20 state champions. There has never been a restriction allowing only the top 20 wrestlers to enter. This year, wrestlers who were official state champions as determined by their states athletic association will be allowed preferential entry status as well as past placers. I think the result will be even more state champions in each bracket and I believe the brackets will still have in excess of 100 wrestlers.


Will Cokeley
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willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Cokeley] #172208 08/22/10 06:47 PM
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I do not know where you got the idea that I ever suggested the entries were “Restricted to the top 20”?? By your description of last years entries this is obviously a great tournament with plenty of top level competition.

You were curious about where I came up with the 5% number in my earlier post, and if we use my 32,000 number from my post above against the total entries of 1,250 it equates to 4%. Plenty of room for other tournaments around the country.

Last edited by Ben Dover; 08/22/10 06:54 PM.

Steve Earle
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Ben Dover] #172213 08/22/10 08:48 PM
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Will

Fargo cadet greco champ, and freestyle finalist Tyler Coates from WA just registered. Now add him to a field that includes NHSCA SO Champ Reyes, NHSCA Junior Finalist Lozano, NHSCA So Champ Wilson and likely #1 ranked Bryce Hammond. As well as state placer Marchese and were 10 weeks out. Also have a few suprise entries from PA and OH.

Like I said I think you should take a wait and see approach since that list has already beat the best the east coast has to offer @ Fargo and VA Beach.

Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: saveca] #172216 08/23/10 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: saveca
Will

Fargo cadet greco champ, and freestyle finalist Tyler Coates from WA just registered. Now add him to a field that includes NHSCA SO Champ Reyes, NHSCA Junior Finalist Lozano, NHSCA So Champ Wilson and likely #1 ranked Bryce Hammond. As well as state placer Marchese and were 10 weeks out. Also have a few suprise entries from PA and OH.

Like I said I think you should take a wait and see approach since that list has already beat the best the east coast has to offer @ Fargo and VA Beach.



Went to look at the entries but the web site is malfunctioning and will not take you to the participants display or registration page...


Will Cokeley
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willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: Cokeley] #172218 08/23/10 02:25 AM
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busy day today over 1800 hits server went down so were updating it..will be back live shortly

Last edited by saveca; 08/23/10 02:25 AM.
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: saveca] #172230 08/23/10 08:18 PM
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Saveca---I'm sorry to say but you remind me of SPAM. Just my .02 cents...it seems like every post you make....let's just be patient. Super 32 is where the tanks/studs will be this year esp. on the East coast.
Why don't you post information in your profile so we can identify who you really are?
Why aren't you rocking the Pennsylvania Youth Wrestling Forums too?


In it to win it.
Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: in it to win it] #172232 08/23/10 11:06 PM
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Because we have a bunch of kids coming from PA already. Look I am over it, all I was saying is it would be nice to have a few Kansas kids in Vegas. The few vocal members on this board are the absolute opposite of the good souls I met in Topeka and Wichita some years back.

Hope to see you guys at nationals

Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: saveca] #172234 08/24/10 01:01 AM
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Just my opinion on the matter. Why is it that everyone on this site bellyaches and cries for people to support our sport and to do something instead of talking about it. Now the people starting this Vegas tourney are doin just that ( giving kids an opportunity that they may not be able to afford ) and the same bellyachers start the negative crap. I applaud the tournament and hope that it grows to tremendous heights. My son is only 10 so we are going to Amarillo for all star points and hopefully a free camp, but I still say it's a good thing. Alot of families could not afford going east but can afford Vegas. Bravo for setting this up and best of luck to you this year and in the future.

Mike Pirl

Re: #1 Ranked wrestler in the country in vegas [Re: bubbasmom77] #172239 08/24/10 03:12 AM
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The issue I have with the event is that is in direct competition with 2 other events!

While the Super32 is not an USA Wrestling sanctioned event ... the USAW PreSeason Nationals are!

We, are a big supporter of USA events with few exceptions.

I was in Colorado Springs this past weekend, attending the USA Wrestlings, State Leaders Summit. I spoke directly with a coach from Vegas ... and he and his crew are not going to attend this event.

Nuway is making in-roads in several states, much to the chagrin of USA Wrestling members. This was a topic this past weekend and avenues to remedy the influx is underway.


Are you making a POSITIVE difference in the life of kids?

Randy Hinderliter
USAW Kansas
KWCA Rep/Coaches Liaison
Ottawa University Volunteer Assistant
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