After watching the Newton TOC and watching a very good Tulsa Union team I realized this. They wrestle an all out college style and determined that until we adopt more of this we will never really compete on a national level. Don't get me wrong the Kansas kids held their own but that was the best of our state against 1 team. Before you start bashing let me explain. First off look at the schedules some other states will let their kids wrestle. They go where the best competition is no matter how many miles it is. Now some will say that we are students first then athletes. Correct- so raise the minimum GPA and we have better kids in both areas, students and athletes. As for the style, when on their feet they were in your face and constantly pressuring/attacking. When on bottom they were explosive to their feet and right back in your face. When on top they didn't waste time and energy. If the bottom kid even came close to getting away they let them go and went right back on the attack. How can we make our kids better so that they have more opportunities in college? IMO we can open the rules to allow more matches. We can let them travel to where the best competition is that the school and parents can afford to send them and we can raise the min. GPA to make them better students as well. Until we at least make an effort to lighten up KSHSAA rules and regulations I feel we are just handcuffing our kids and breeding mediocrity. Let the bashing begin.

Oklahoma University currently has 7 Kansas wrestlers on their roster. Napier is up at Nebraska, Disney and another at Cal Poly. I believe our wrestlers are doing a great job representing us on the College level. Can we improve our programs and technique, yes, and any program that wishes to stay strong will always continue to push their athletes to become more knowledgeable about the sport of wrestling.

Agreed with both 100%.. I wrestled in college and practice's were way more intense. I think if kids were pushed more then the wrestling would take care of itself. Also WE as in all kansas wrestling supporters need to get the 5 match rule changed, i think this is also holding us back. These kids do work hard, and nothing wrong with letting these kids get what they deserve. Yes it will be tough on them, winning isnt easy, wrestling isnt easy, so let them push themselves and again the wrestling will take care of itself.

Yes some of our kids are doing great. You mentioned 10 wrestlers why not 20 or 30. Why be happy with the status quo. Why not let all our kids push themselves as hard as they wish to?

Reshot has the right idea. And that you for bringing it up as I forgot about the 5 match rule. It is so ignorant of a rule that i sometimes forget how KSHSAA thinks.

I would love to see the 5 match rule lifted. Can they wrestle more than 5 in Oklahoma?

Again, the 5 match rule is a National Federation rule. Not a KSHAA only rule. If you're going to go against the National Fed, I think the 5 match rule would be more beneficial than home weigh-ins. Lets prepare our guys for shoulder to shoulder College weigh-ins. I understand the hardship for rural teams and long travels, but again I would rather fight for 6 matches than early weigh ins. I know my wrestlers love early weigh-ins. But you have to adjust to 1 hour before weigh-ins at the next level. Just like you have to adjust to wrestling more than 5 matches in a day. I'd trade KSHAA exceptions.

There are definitely more than I mentioned, these were just a few I knew off the top of my head. The 5 match limit is a national rule that the state of Kansas currently wishes to adhere too, but if we continue to let our voices be heard in Topeka, by e-mail, letters, and phone calls, we may some day accomplish the task on having this rule changed.
I would also like to point out our performance at the Senior National Tournament in Virgina Beach over the years. We have a very small population, but have finished in the top ten more then once. There are many programs around the state that are traveling around the country to attend camps, instituting summer training programs, and working hard to develop strong kid's programs. We have tough journey ahead, but true Kansans would have it no other way.

I don't know about 5 matches in one day in Oklahoma. But they do get more matches at a higher level.

I know its more then 5 matches because when they are not wrestling at a school duel or tournament they are allowed to wrestle at kids club events.
To me the big advantage is the amount of mat time the younger wrestlers get.
Say when that Tulsa Union team was here wrestling, younger kids that fall into the 15U group are allowed to wrestle at kids tournaments. Heck the HS coaches are allowed to coach them as well. This creates larger turnouts at the tournaments, which creates more revenue for kids clubs as well. Somekids club tournaments don't have the 14u division due to attendance levels.
They are also allowed in the rooms to practice with kids club coaches while still wrestling for the HS.
This allows the more workout time and a chance to be mentors to younger kids.
The 5 match rule, the 500 mile rule, and the seperation from kids club are holding them back compared to other states.

I don't think the gap is where a lot of people think it is. Kansas had some good teams at the tournament but not the best kansas has to offer. There are a lot of middle of road teams at Newton with 1 or 2 really good kids. Isn't Tulsa Union one of the best, if not the best in the state of Oklahoma. I would be surprised to see the same result every year.

side note:
Heard Napier packed it in and is not at NEB anymore.

MAJOR ISSUES CONTRIBUTING TO MEDIOCRITY:

We have almost NO former D1 wrestlers coaching at the High School level. (I think there is one)

We don't change our schedules enough and travel enough. (Many of the wrestlers in Johnson County see each other five plus times a season. Who gets better doing that?)

Deny, Deny, Deny! Most are not willing to admit that we are NOT doing anything to change things. Remember, an idiot is one who does the same thing over and over and expects different results.

KSHSAA. (Travel limits, competition limits, coaching limits, Christmas Break, Dead week, three or four state tournament sites, four state tournaments, no seeding at the state tournament, lack of promotion, failure to allow change, no sense of urgency, huge vacuum of our dollars!

No D1 program in our state. (Wichita State would be the best bet as they don't have a football program) What kind of team would we have RIGHT NOW with home grown talent? How many wrestlers would want to stay and coach HS after finishing their career? Our cheapest option for education and wrestling is FHSU and we don't even have their program fully funded yet.

More summer wrestling. It is sad that we have over 8,000 card carrying wrestlers but we get just over 300 for our FS/GR State and just over 100 at the Southern Plains regional. More HS coaches need to be active in the summer and get more kids into summer wrestling.

There are wrestlers who do compete nationally very well and obviously very well in the state or Kansas. But in order for the majority of the state to become more advanced and compete at the same level, you can't wrestle 3 months out of the year. But you also must grow with the sport. The states who consistently compete well nationally have D1 programs and have experienced coaches in the high school rooms passing their knowledge on. They aren't showing the five dollars moves that lead to bad habits. The are showing the basics that are going to work and then building from there. Tulsa Union is very well coached, but also very committed several of their kids compete in the summer and are doing extra. It doesn't help Kansas wrestling when coaches can't work with their kids out of the season.

IMHO this is the #1 reason, Spencer wrestled 17 matches during the high school season last year, he had around 110 matches outside of high school, this is where you can dramatically improve from year to year!

Is it just a rumor about Kansas State University starting a D-1 program in 2013?

The freestyle numbers won't raise until high school coaches can coach wrestlers out of the KSHSAA season. The State GR/FS meet date does not allow High school coaches to work with their athletes until days before the state tournament. This is a KSHSAA rule that definitely needs lifted. Tulsa Union is a tough team, but not all of their wrestlers wrestled like D-1 college kids. Many of their weights had kids who did not place at Newton. Where they are good they are good, but their line up had holes in it. They do have a coaching staff that is full of college wrestlers. Only 1 or 2 were D-1 wrestlers. Their head coach played football in college FYI. Union is a great team, but you also have to understand their enrollment is pretty large so they have a nice selection of athletes to choose from.

I agree with Will and Ed. The high school season is too short. If you want to get better, you have to do more in the off-season. Freestyle and Greco help our wrestlers between more well rounded and national level events help get our kids a taste of where the upper tier wrestlers are at. Until you measure yourself, how do you know how you're doing. Wrestling the same kids week in and week out sets us up for mediocrity.

Before we start promoting the growing of freestyle/greco state we better figure out how to make it run more efficiently. It was a nightmare last year and there were only 300 wrestlers. I am guessing but I bet there are more than a few kids and parents that won't attend this year because of the experience last year.