Evolution is a fairy tale?

If it is a fairy tale please try and explain to me why humans and chimpanzees share roughly 96% of the same DNA.

Im curious as to how that happened. Did god decide to do that just to confuse us or are the scientists who study the human genome atheists and god haters, trying to turn people away from the bible.

Please explain Chief.

Here is an excellent website to educate on what is constitutionally legal in our PUBLIC schools regarding prayer. Take a look and decide for yourselves.

http://www.adl.org/religion_ps_2004/prayer.asp

Educate yourself!

If I need to I apologize to you. I do. But, I read your posts as personal attacks. ADDED: especially YOUR COMMENT "but that doesn't surprise me, you seem to have problems understanding just about everything". Where you infering I am dumb or stupid?? And yes, I have been attacked on this forum for expressing a personal belief and opinion. In one of the very early post on this topic Chief label me a hater. I do not hate anyone. By inference, me, Cb, rassler and anothers who have questioned this supposed private prayer have been labeled as communists, anti-christian, anti Christ, devil worshippers, etc.

I still have not recieved a response from M LV, Brett, Harry, Doug or Chief on why this was not submitted to the schools and KSHSAA before they went public.

All im saying is that 96% is a lot of freaking monkey.

let me put it this way if I were to give you a sandwich with 96% crap on it and 4% ham, would you be willing to consider that a ham sandwich?

If you are going to address a group or have a meeting, probably do need to ask the tounament host and manager---the courteous thing to do.

Still no answer from the Lemars, Vander Lindens or Chief Renegade on why this was not proposed to the host schools and KSHSAA!!

'Evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups.'

I don't know, I do not see evolution as incompatable with my believes in God. In our age, we have watched bacteria evolve to the point they are resistant to the antibiotics we use. As the parents of wrestlers we are all aware of the dangers or resistant staph. Evolution occurs, at least to some degree. Haven't really been around long enough to know for sure if we evolved from something else.

This is interesting; but, time for this to die!!!!!!!

Prayer in Public School - Overview

Some excerpts taken directly from "Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools"
(copyright, Jay Sekulow, ACLJ.org, February 7, 2003)

Prayer in Public School - Overview of Governing Constitutional Principles

The history of prayer in public school is a story of legal interpretation. The relationship between religion and government in the United States is governed by the First Amendment to the Constitution, which both prevents the government from establishing religion and protects privately initiated religious expression and activities from government interference and discrimination. The First Amendment thus establishes certain limits on the conduct of public school officials as it relates to religious activity, including prayer.

The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the First Amendment requires public school officials to be neutral in their treatment of religion, showing neither favoritism toward nor hostility against religious expression such as prayer. Good News Club v. Milford Cent. Sch., 533 U.S. 98 (2001); Everson v. Board of Educ., 330 U.S. 1 (1947). Accordingly, the First Amendment forbids religious activity that is sponsored by the government but protects religious activity that is initiated by private individuals, and the line between government-sponsored and privately initiated religious expression is vital to a proper understanding of the First Amendment's scope. As the Court has explained in several cases, "there is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect." Santa Fe Indep. Sch. Dist. v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290, 302 (2000).

Prayer in Public School - Drawing the Line of Permissible Expression
The Supreme Court's decisions over the past forty years set forth principles that distinguish impermissible governmental religious speech from the constitutionally protected private religious speech of students. For example, teachers and other public school officials may not lead their classes in prayer, devotional readings from the Bible, or other religious activities. Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962); School Dist. of Abington Twp. v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963). Nor may school officials attempt to persuade or compel students to participate in prayer or other religious activities. Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577, 599 (1992). Such conduct is "attributable to the State" and thus violates the Establishment Clause. Weisman, 505 U.S. at 587.

Although the Constitution forbids public school officials from directing or favoring prayer, students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Community Sch. Dist., 393 U.S. 503, 506 (1969). In addition, the Supreme Court has made clear that "private religious speech, far from being a First Amendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secular private expression." Capitol Square Review & Advisory Bd. v. Pinette, 515 U.S. 753, 760 (1995). Moreover, not all religious speech that takes place in the public schools or at school-sponsored events is governmental speech. Santa Fe, 530 U.S. at 302. For example, "nothing in the Constitution ... prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day," and students may pray with fellow students during the school day on the same terms and conditions that they may engage in other conversation or speech. Santa Fe, 530 U.S. at 313.

Prayer in Public School - Our Country's Legacy
It wasn't until the early 1960's that prayer in public school was "outlawed" by a new interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. In fact, the history of the U.S. includes prayer and Bible readings in all sorts of public places, including schools. In 1782, the United States Congress passed the following resolution: "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."

William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in U.S. public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." McGuffey declared: "The Christian religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our notions on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible I make no apology."

Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, (John 17:3); and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let every one seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)."

Great website. Thanks. Everyone should read it--especially Chief and a few other religous law experts.

Richard. Look at this site and give us a brief on what is and is not!!! I think the above site is a lot mor definitive.

Headup. You too need to look at this site.

I love all the arguing about christ cause thats what he wants his name talked about.

Good Find gymmom!

Here is a literate post. This young man has a future as an English teacher who emphasizes spelling, grammer, sentence structure and clarity.

Just kidding Dude. Way to jump in with an opinion.

From the website article you reference:

"Can there be prayer before or after athletic events or activities? A school district's policy of permitting student-led, student-initiated prayer before football games is unconstitutional. It is also unconstitutional for a school official, including a coach, to initiate or lead a team in prayer. Nor may a school official ask a team member or any other student to initiate or lead a prayer before, during or after a public or school-sponsored athletic activity or event. It is also unconstitutional for a member of the clergy to offer prayers before or after public school athletic activities or events. Voluntary prayer presented and led by students without official permission or sanction may be constitutional, provided that it is not coercive in any way."

Voluntary prayer presented and led by students without official permission or sanction may be constitutional, provided that it is not coercive in any way.

Taken from the website that was sited.

Contrarion no one is attacking were simply debating on different view points and you took it to a personal level which i as a freshman in college know should be done over forums but in person. We both have different views on how this should be done plain and simple, the only problem is your trying to prevent a group of Teenagers from doing something they want to and i find that sad. If you dont agree with thes then confront the wrestlers themselves and tell them what you think not on these forums thats how you should handle this if its such a big deal.

you all better believe I will be there friday and saturday praying cause there isnt anyone that will stop me

Sorry, but I consider this prayer to be cohercive.. It is being presented with out the explicit approval of all the wrestlers, parents, spectators, school officials, and KSHSAA. If you want 100% crowd approval then do it in a church where everone in attendance is there willing to participate in the service--except maybe those old guys or kid who were dragged there by their wives or mothers.

To the Kansas Wrestling Forum Community -

This is Doug Vander Linden. I have been a technology teacher and wrestling coach in Burlington, Kansas for the past 21 years. I have not been a minister, preacher or priest at any time in my career. Just a teacher and a coach. I have also sponsored Fellowship of Christian Athletes at Burlington High School for the past 11 years.

I am not going to begin to address the pages of responses that this post has created. I have never sent a private message to any of those that have had differring views to the ones shared by Michael, Brett and others. This will be my only post on this thread.

Quite simply, we were called out as doing something wrong in 2010 and now again in 2011. I was provided a copy of the memo from the KSHSAA in February of 2010 from Rick Bowden.

Please note that Mr. Bowden shared that a pre-tournament, student-led prayer whether by Wrestlers4Christ, Fellowship of Christian Athletes or Athletes in Action would be legal and allowable provided that it was held prior to the official start of the event. The official start was defined as the Introduction of Teams, National Anthem or the start of the first match of the first round. Therefore, the students are allowed to gather, pray and go back to warming up any time prior to the official start of each day of the tournament.

We are looking forward to 16 great regional tournaments and 4 great state tournaments over the next 2 weeks. Thank you for sharing a passion for Kansas Wrestling. I have a team of great young men to get ready for Friday.

You are welcome to call at 620-364-2054 in the evenings to discuss any further concerns.

Respectfully,
Doug Vander Linden
1 Peter 5:6

no offence but broke152 sounds like hes from compton.

"In Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, the Supreme Court nicely summed up the difficulty with school sponsored religion:

School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible because it sends the ancillary message to members of the audience who are nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community"

This may be why kshaa or the schools were never asked. It wouldn't be approved and they knew this.

AHH! We've been duped!

God Lovers and their trickery, clever people you are, very clever...