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 Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: doug747]
#192830
10/25/11 01:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 195
Joe Knecht
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If the club directors are not emailing, or posting, the email verification that they receive after they enter their wrestlers, so that parents can review, then they are idiots.
Doug - I agree, under normal circumstances, this would work. I hope the intent of the change is to deal with the exceptions. What if you have parents that aren't present at practices, the kid is sick the days leading up to the sign-ups (and doesn't let anyone know they are going to wrestle even though they didn't practice for 2+ weeks) or perhaps that family doesn't have email. I know, even my 85 yr old Grandma uses email. I like the intent of the change and support allowing a kid to wrestle while still holding clubs accountable. It seems the current rules, punishes the kid for an adults mistake. Be it a club director, parent, coach or otherwise. Disclaimer: I am from D1, to some may be considered a hysterical fool, please take with a grain of salt. 
Joe Knecht
(913) 709-9875
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Joe Knecht]
#192843
10/25/11 03:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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So now the kid that doesn't come to practice for the 3 weeks prior to the tourney, has to make sure he or his parents checks his email, or stops by practice, sometime prior to 2 hours before the start of the seeding meeting, to make sure he is entered correctly.
Things don't have to be complicated to be right. This simplifies the process, there is no gray area, and it gives everyone plenty of time to make sure their entries are correct.
Here we go again, trying to design a rule that is going to cover every single situation. What about the kid that was kidnapped and wasn't rescued until 4 minutes before the seeding meeting, but still wants to wrestle? When he was kidnapped, he weighed 125 lbs, but lost weight from malnutrition, and doesn't have time to run to a scale and see what weight he should enter at??!! What about him??!! waaaaaaa!!!!
Last edited by doug747; 10/25/11 03:40 PM.
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: doug747]
#192844
10/25/11 03:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Purple_Freak
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Finally someone else is pointing out this is about the actual entries! We have always done changes (ie weight for instance), those could continue to be done.
The way I hear some on here talk that there would be a $50 penalty to simply change a weight that was after the 10 deadline. I do not believe that this is the purpose of the admendment, the actual entries are.
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Purple_Freak]
#192845
10/25/11 04:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 911
Mark J Stanley
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Doug,
Now you’re just being an ass. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. But, I will tell you that there were real flesh and blood wrestlers that were not able to wrestle in the State series last year for no fault of their own…and EVERY year for that matter. The situations varied from the parents making a mistake, the wrestler sitting on the fence, the club making mistakes, and even worse, a participant purposely being left off a list. Every year the managers of the Sub-District tournaments get hit with every excuse in the book. The intent of the original amendment was to give these kids who for whatever reason missed our deadline an opportunity to wrestle for an added fee. The original amendment offers the fairest and most consistent way to deal with this issue. Some excuses may be more legitimate than others, but who decides whether little Johnny’s internet outage was more important big Mike’s trip to the ER. I don’t like excuses, but if we are going to open the door up and fix the problem for one kid than we need to have rules in place that can be consistently applied to the entire USAWA-KS organization. Simply put, extending the deadline without an added fee DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. Any solution that doesn't put in place a parent/participant review period DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. This is my last comment on this issue…until Sunday. Club representatives, you have to show up to have a voice! The D2 amendment DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.
Mark
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Mark J Stanley]
#192846
10/25/11 04:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 911
Mark J Stanley
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Purple Freak
Nobody is trying to charge a fee to make weight changes for kids that were entered prior to the 10 day deadline. I am not sure where you read that, but it is NOT part of either amendment.
Mark
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Mark J Stanley]
#192847
10/25/11 05:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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Doug,
Now you’re just being an ass.*****don't let your mouth write checks your a$$ can't cash***** I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. But, I will tell you that there were real flesh and blood wrestlers that were not able to wrestle in the State series last year for no fault of their own…and EVERY year for that matter. ******And the D2 proposal would be the least punitive way to rectify that situation******* The situations varied from the parents making a mistake, the wrestler sitting on the fence, the club making mistakes, and even worse, a participant purposely being left off a list. *******In each instance, our proposal would allow those kids you mention to wrestle, as long as they checked their email, or went to practice to check with their club director******** Every year the managers of the Sub-District tournaments get hit with every excuse in the book.****And this would end that, because trackwrestling closes 2 hours before the seeding meeting under our proposal****** The intent of the original amendment was to give these kids who for whatever reason missed our deadline an opportunity to wrestle for an added fee. ****Ours give them that option without the additional fee****** The original amendment offers the fairest and most consistent way to deal with this issue. **See above*** Some excuses may be more legitimate than others, but who decides whether little Johnny’s internet outage was more important big Mike’s trip to the ER. I don’t like excuses, but if we are going to open the door up and fix the problem for one kid than we need to have rules in place that can be consistently applied to the entire USAWA-KS organization. Simply put, extending the deadline without an added fee DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. Any solution that doesn't put in place a parent/participant review period **********I have never gone online to check to see if my son was entered in the correct weight, and neither do most parents. They assume their kid is entered correctly. And you still have that option to make weight changes when your club is called up to ok the entry list. I'm sorry, but if a kid can't get entered by the 2 hour deadline, he doesn't want to wrestle very bad********DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. This is my last comment on this issue…until Sunday. Club representatives, you have to show up to have a voice! The D2 amendment DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.****And the D1 amendment punishes you for not entering by a deadline that is way too early******
Mark
Last edited by doug747; 10/25/11 05:04 PM.
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Joe Knecht]
#192850
10/25/11 06:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Disclaimer: I am from D1, to some may be considered a hysterical fool, please take with a grain of salt. I don't think you necessarily have to be a hysterical fool to be from D1, but I do think it helps to fit in there if you are. 
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Mark J Stanley]
#192857
10/25/11 09:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
HEADUP
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Doug,
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
IMPOSSIBLE- we CAN NOT agree to disagree. ALL grievances must be settled. settled the old fashioned way, with a duel. Mark and Doug you will have 3 choices to chose from, Nerf dart guns, bows with "lick n stick" arrows, or a joust on tricycles with foam lances. The first man with 2 victories declared shall be crowned the winner, and will subsequently be allowed to be as histerical, foolish, an ass as he choses, and NO other man shall be allowed to take that right from him. NOT even Sir Richard Salyer, Sir William Cokeley, NOR Sir Sportfan02. gosh i missed this show, now on with ACT II. Bravo, gents, Bravo!
"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: HEADUP]
#192859
10/26/11 01:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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I thought my example was funny, but it got me called an a$$....Must have hurt someone's feelings. Must not be politically correct to joke about a kidnapping, for fear of even one person being offended........ One person gets lung cancer(and never really knows what caused it), and everyone has to do without coal fired electric plants. One nuclear reactor has an accident, and they all are bad. I'm sick of catering to the minority.
If our amendment doesn't pass at the meeting, I'll accept it, no big deal. Let's vote on it. You'd think D2 was wanting to chop kids' arms off or something.
I never had a problem with the way we've done entries for subs. What ever the rule is, that is what I've lived with. You never heard me whining about a kid that got left out. I just told the kid "too late, you knew the deadline". But I have wondered, ever since we went to trackwrestling, why we needed the early deadline. Now I know that it is for that one kid, so dedicated to the sport, and so badly wanting to wrestle the kids' state series, that he misses the last 3 weeks of practice and misses the deadline. Yep, that is the kid that I will go to bat for..........
Last edited by doug747; 10/26/11 01:40 AM.
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: doug747]
#192867
10/26/11 01:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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To clear up any mud that has clouded this issue:
The D2 proposal would basically give you up until 2 hours prior to the posted seeding meeting start time, to enter and/or make changes. So let's say the seeding meeting is posted to start at noon on Sunday March 4th. Trackwrestling would be shut down to any NEW ENTRIES as of 10 am on Sunday March 4th. This will keep a club from bringing new entries to the seeding meeting, they will have to enter them before they leave the house for the seeding meeting.
At the seeding meeting, each club will be called up to verify their entries for accuracy. Weight changes can be made at this time if need be. Once any changes are made on the computer screen, the entries can be printed off, signed off on, and be done.
This is a zero tolerance policy on entry deadline. If you choose to wait until Sunday morning to enter your wrestlers, and you internet happens to be down that morning, you better get to your neighbor to get 'em entered. My advice for club directors would be to enter kids as you get the entries, so that you stay ahead. So if a kid tells you two weeks early what weight he is going, as long as trackwrestling is open, get him in. I will probably tell our kids that the Wednesday before is the deadline, and use the Thurs, Fri, and Sat for "recruiting" those high school kids that didn't want to wrestle after HS state, but start missing it after a week or so away from it.
Wrestling is expensive enough, so if a kid decides on Sunday morning that he wants to wrestle, let him, for NO ADDITIONAL FEE.
Again, I will adhere to whatever system we adopt. You won't hear me whining about a kid not getting to wrestle. If I didn't get the info to the kid about the correct deadline, that is my fault. If the kid is too dumb to ask, that is his fault. So we can both deal with it. Life isn't going to spoon feed you...........
I just feel like technology allows us to adopt this type of deadline, so why not do it?
Last edited by doug747; 10/26/11 02:00 PM.
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: doug747]
#192870
10/26/11 02:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 911
Mark J Stanley
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Posts: 911 |
Doug,
I was frustrated (my feelings were not hurt), but not for the reason that you eluded to in your post. I apologize for letting my personal comment get ahead of my common since. My frustration stems from the fact that I believe we need to examine all of the bylaw changes by looking at two things. First, what are we trying to fix and does the change proposed actually fix the problem identified; and second what are the unintended negative consequences of the changes we are trying to make. For the most part USAWA-KS is a smoothly operating organization. For that reason we need to guard against creating bigger problems unintentionally. How’s the old saying about good intentions go? Once our bylaws are set, I am a very big proponent to living by the rules. Unfortunately this has not always been the case in regards to this issue as the bylaws are currently written. Where one district may live by the rules and not allow late entries, others are going down the slippery slope of allowing a late entry for one excuse but disallowing another participant for reasons they deem not worthy. This is why I am in favor of the late entry portion of the original amendment; what’s good for one is good for all. You can enter late for an added fee. But, if you allow open registration up until two hours before the seeding meeting you fail to give club directors the incentive to get their entries entered in time for a parent/participant review period. Why I feel so strongly about the parent/participant review period, is because a lot of these errors are not even discovered by the parent/participant until after the seeding meeting when the entries are now posted and it’s too late to make a change. I agree with you that it is “stupid” (your word not mine) for club directors to not do the parent/participant review on their own; but it is a fact that you can’t fix stupid. I hope that all the 1468 viewers of this thread have learned a little from our debate. See you on Sunday….
Mark
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Mark J Stanley]
#192874
10/26/11 03:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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I think I called club directors that are not communicating with their parents via email, or posting entries on the wall in their wrestling room IDIOTS, not stupid, but I'll go ahead and call them stupid also. I don't think there are many that fall in that category, so we should not be insulting too many people with our statements.
I still disagree with the review period. The review period is going on at the same time entries are being put into trackwrestling. I don't think we need a separate "review" period, after the close of trackwrestling. And I disagree with making it even more expensive to wrestle with that penalty of $50
Here is a question for someone: Is there a way to allow access to data from our own club, that we could give a password or something, to our parents, to review the entries after I enter them? Not needed for our club, but for those that think we need it, is that possible. The parent would not be able to change anything, but could see the entries for our club only? For those of you that support releasing entries early, just allow access to the entry data as soon as they are entered. Oklahoma does it this way I believe. I'm ready to give up on my "keep kids from running" rant. One way or another, kids are going to run. We've seen many situation where "scared stiff" dads are asking "what weight are you guys going?", trying to get the inside scoop on how is the best way to get his kid the 8u state championship.
This may be an alternative to your plan. Give us the late deadline, and we give you the open entries, so parents can review them as they are posted. It would also allow parents to, if they don't see their teams' entries, bug the club director to get off his butt and get them entered. Kind of a check and balance. If by Saturday, your club's entries aren't in the system, club director's phone will be ringing off the hook.
Last edited by doug747; 10/26/11 03:13 PM.
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Mark J Stanley]
#192875
10/26/11 03:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Unfortunately this has not always been the case in regards to this issue as the bylaws are currently written.
Could I be so bold as to ask, which district is it that hasn't followed the rules in the past?
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: sportsfan02]
#192880
10/26/11 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
HEADUP
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Unfortunately this has not always been the case in regards to this issue as the bylaws are currently written.
Could I be so bold as to ask, which district is it that hasn't followed the rules in the past? why do you ask questions that you already know the answer to? why are Mark and Doug trying to get out of the duel? why can't we just settle this stuff like men? why doesn't the old "sticks and stones" quote work these days? when is the intermission going to be over? i wan't more action!
"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: HEADUP]
#192889
10/26/11 07:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 673
Teamroper
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Doug called me a "stupid idiot"!
Tracy Peterson
Buhler, KS
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Teamroper]
#192892
10/27/11 12:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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Posts: 3,066 |
And you didn't even call me an a$$ !!!!!!
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: doug747]
#192893
10/27/11 12:11 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 673
Teamroper
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Well not officially I didn't.
Tracy Peterson
Buhler, KS
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: Teamroper]
#192924
10/28/11 12:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 408
John Johnson
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Just a point, you could do away with the requirement that clubs enter the participants - and do like the Blue Chip tourneys and USA Nationals and let the parents enter the kids themselves thru trackwrestling. This would prevent all the problems - I guess it would probably put too much power in the 'peoples' hands. Clubs could still do it for the parents who are new to the sport and are not sure how to do it.
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: John Johnson]
#192940
10/28/11 05:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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For a liberal, I am surprised you would give any power "back to the people". Maybe you'll be smart enough to support Herman Cain this time around...........
Hate to admit it, but this wouldn't bother me at all to let parents enter if they'd like, and don't trust stupid idiots like Team Roper
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Re: USAW Kansas Kids Bylaw Change!
[Re: doug747]
#192945
10/28/11 09:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 158
Jess Keith
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There is still one question that has not been answered yet. Where does the extra money go from the late entrees? Does that money go to the State, District, or hosting club? I would like to hear the answer to the question.
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