Will Cokeley I agree with just about everything you say, Except for "once you are there anything can happen". If you are in the 5a tourny and wrestling a guy with 0 wins that did not even have to win a match to get to state I do not think that "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN" LIKE YOU SAY. Also I agree that 50% of the 5a 6a wrestlers are at state but I would say the number is closer to 25% for 3a 4a.
Mostly I do not like Beeson running down Bo, by saying he wrestled in the north. When no one has ever done what Bo did.

As I read all the post and mention of Mayes or Roberson being the best to come out of Kansas. I don't see any mention of Melvin Douglas from Topeka, even though he was not undefeated in high school. I think he was a 3X KS state champ in the early 80's, a 2X NCAA Champ at Oklahoma, a World Champ in 1993 and a 2X member of the USA Olympic team. Do any other wrestlers from KS have that resume?

I would have given Melvin my nod. Does anyone have a list of all of the former KS high school wresters who have been D1 All Americans?

Eric Akin was a 3x State Champ, 4X NCAA D1 AA, 2x Olympic team runner up, world team member, and world level competitor for nearly 20 years. His Jr. Nationals accomplishments (I don't have the details) are most likely the best ever from Kansas and he didn't get to compete the summer after his senior year.

Roberson has the nod over Mayes. Mayes never finished as a D1 AA.

I think most everyone on this forum wants Kansas wrestling to grow and prosper. The only way that will happen is when more wrestlers compete in high school to the best of their ability. Most wrestlers in the state don't compete in the summer for various reasons. Many wrestlers aren't in the best programs, don't wrestle the best competition, and they may not finish in the placing rounds at State. Does that make them less important in the grand scheme of things? I don't think so. They are out there battling every day in practice, they are putting it out on the line in every dual or tournament they wrestle in, they are doing their best. I applaud the best for the hard work they put in and for going above and beyond what others may not be able to do. If you want the state to have better competition for these wrestlers, don't exclude the other wrestlers that are doing it even though they may never step up on the podium at State.

Douglas won three state championships at Highland Park 79, 80, 81 — the only city wrestler to accomplish that feat — and then moved on to Oklahoma, where he was a two-time NCAA champion 85 & 86

He went on to become a nine-time United States freestyle champ, Melvin Douglas had the following finishes at major championships – 1993 World Championship: 90.0 kg. Freestyle (1st); 1989 World Championship: 82.0 kg. Freestyle (2nd); 1994 World Championship: 90.0 kg. Freestyle (3rd); 1998 World Championship: 97.0 kg. Freestyle (5th); 1997 World Championship: 97.0 kg. Freestyle (9th); 1995 Pan-American Games: 90.0 kg. Freestyle (1st).

Member of the 1996 & 2000 USA Olympic teams

I don't think any wrestler from KS comes close to this resume!

Do you know why Melvin didn't win 3 NCAA titles???

This is a thread about undefeated wrestlers. Which, in and of itself, because of the amount of wrestlers on the list, will start the debate of who is the best? So mediocre and average wrestlers will not be brought up in the discussion. Facts about stength of schedule, four classes of state champions, history, and many other factors will come into play. There is no need to be offended just because your particular guy did not get the nod over someone else. My vote, as much as it pains me, is Winfield's Myron Roderick. Since it has been discussed, I think Ark City year in and year out has one of if not the toughest schedules in the state.

Please somebody tell Beeson that Ark City is the greatest! The question was, will we ever see another undefeated 4 time state champ ever? And the answer is yes. There is a bunch of studs coming that are capable of being undefeated in high school.

Dan Gentzler

My point is we shouldn't see another undefeated...seek the competition.

Dan, I know they are the Greatest. I don't have to be convinced.

This much I will agree with. 3x NCAA Champ. Great Coach, Multi-sport Athlete.

For those who don't know who he is / or credentials.

...STILLWATER, Okla. – The Oklahoma State family suffered the loss of a legend Wednesday as Cowboy great Myron W. Roderick passed away.

Roderick’s legacy at Oklahoma State, as a student-athlete, coach and athletic director, will never be forgotten.

The Winfield Kan., native began his storied history with OSU athletics as a wrestler from 1953-56, when he also earned three letters as a tennis player.

In three years of collegiate wrestling competition, Roderick won 42 of his 44 matches and earned three NCAA individual titles, with one coming at the 137-pound class and two more at 130. He continued his career at the 1956 Olympic Games, where he lost a split decision to the eventual champion.

At 23, Roderick took over the reins of the program and, just one year after winning his last individual NCAA title, became the youngest coach in any sport to guide a team to an NCAA championship.

His teams continued his success and dominated the world of collegiate wrestling for 13 years, posting 140-10-7 dual record on the way to 13 Big Eight Conference titles and seven NCAA team championships.

As a testament to Roderick’s coaching prowess, he was named the NCAA wrestling coach of the year on three occasions and produced 20 individual NCAA champions and three Olympic gold medalists. He received the two highest amateur wrestling awards when he won Man of the Year in 1971 and when he was inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame.

He also served as the head coach of the Cowboy tennis program from 1958-1967, claiming a 105-23-1 dual record and six conference titles.

As an athletic director, Roderick guided the program at Oklahoma State for seven years from 1983-1990. Under his direction, OSU athletic teams won more than 30 Big 8 championships, as well as four NCAA championships.

A 1952 graduate of Winfield High School, Roderick was born on Sept. 15, 1934, in Anthony, Kan. He won back-to-back wrestling state championships before coming to OSU.

Roderick left Oklahoma State 1969 to become executive director of the United States Wrestling Federation, of which he was co-founder. He resigned from that position in 1974 to enter private business and take over the reins as executive director of the United States Racquetball Federation. He returned to OSU in 1983 as the university’s eighth athletic director.

"I'm just curious and would like to get your thoughts on the possibility of ever seeing another Kansas 4 year unbeaten wrestler."

Original post, or at least the start of it. This thread has gone all over the place. Will there ever be another 4 year unbeaten wrestler? Maybe, maybe not.

I did take this post in another direction, only because I see wrestlers competing at the varsity level in their high school that I didn't think would make it that far based on what I saw in the Kids' Fed. I think that those wrestlers still being around and competing to the best of their ability is great. I am very proud of those guys for sticking it out.

I have googled and googled and can not find the answer...care to share?

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/ncaa/pdf/brackets/NCAA%201984.pdf

He wrestled 177...

The weight was 167...did he get injured or not make weight the second day?

Ask Coach McCarthy...he was IN that bracket.

Will is right on this one. (Okay, I admit I agree with him just this once.) If you are undefeated, or close to it, you are not traveling far enough or wrestling tough enough competition. Go to Missourwrestling.com and look at Park Hill's or Blue Springs' schedule, and you will see they are 2X tougher than any Kansas team in scheduling. Also, stay away from the (in this order): KC Classic, Bobcat Classic (A 3X state champ took 6th this year and a 2X state champ took 7th last year), Newton and Garden City. Also, only wrestle KS kids, do not go to MO, OK, IA, etc., as you might find trouble if you look hard enough. While the accomplishment of a great record is awesome and beyond dispute, it is clear that it is only one barometer of achievement. Example: Alan Waters of Mizzou lost several times in high school, had only one undefeated season, was 4-timer in MO, ranked top 10 NCAA as a true freshman and is now #3 as a true sophomore. Bo Maynes lost 27 matches at OU, Zach Roberson lost 32 matches at IA State, both outstanding athletes with distinguished careers. My point: If you haven't lost, get on a bus and go find the competition.

Tom Williams

just a few thoughts on this undefeated thing

-i agree that you should always seek the best competition you can
-i also respect that going undefeated is tough, no matter what competition you face.

-tough schedules, level of competition man other things factor in, but it also means that there was never an off day/ never an upset.
-even Gable had an "off day" and failed to go undefeated, he was upset, it wasn't the "toughest competition" that got him

- just want to continue the discussion to see everyone's take on some other things

-Did Cael Sanderson seek the best competition?
-Did he skip the toughest tournaments?
-I have heard him say that he just did his job, by winning matches.
- Does that make the whole "toughest competition" argument an excuse for all that fail to go undefeated?

Sanderson lost his very first match after his NCAA career. Gable lost, John Smith lost, because they were at the highest levels. My point is your record does not always indicate the accurate levels of achievement. The KC Classic, The Walsh Ironman, The Beast of the East, The Cheesehead, etc. are way tougher and in an entirely different level than any tournament KS ever had. You want trouble, go pick a fight at one of those.

good point. does that take away from his NCAA accomplishments?



sure it does. an accurate statement is that maynes and roberson beat everyone who wrestled them throughout their 4 years in high school. the toughness of their schedule, and the level of competition they faced is purely subjective. roberson was a 2x NCAA finalist, and a NCAA champion, that is accurate. does that mean that he was better than others before him or after? that is subjective.



no arguments about the tournaments in these states being tougher. but other than the KC Classic, these tourney are too far for KS teams to compete in by KSHAA rule. can't fault the wrestlers for where they compete.

I get that the KS guys you mentioned are very tough, they are legendary, and their accomplishments are extraordinary. My point, for the third time, is you can brag them down all you want but until they hit the big pond, at any level, what they did has to be held in perspective. These tournaments I mentioned might have 50-80 per bracket, have hundreds of nationally ranked kids, and are not even in the same class as any Kansas tournament, ever. Enough said. Go wrestle there and then say you never lost or got taken down.