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 What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
#199382
02/15/12 07:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 181
Devast8r
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STA/EMP: 33 Ranked, 4 Ranked Teams, 6 #1's
VC/SS: 51 Ranked, 6 Ranked Teams, 8 #1's
STA/VC: 35 Ranked, 3 Ranked Teams, 6 #1's
EMP/SS: 49 Ranked, 7 Ranked Teams, 8#1's
EMP/VC: 38 Ranked, 5 Ranked Teams, 6 #1's
STA/SS: 46 Ranked, 5 Ranked Teams, 8 #1's
Tough Weight Classes (3 or more Ranked):
STA/EMP: 138 (4); 126, 152, 160 & 285 (3)
VC/SS: 120 & 182 (5); 106, 113, 132, 145, 170 & 220 (4); 126, 152, 160, 195 & 285 (3).
STA/VC: 145 (5); 106 & 138 (4); 113, 126, 152 & 160 (3).
EMP/SS: 120, 132, 195 & 220 (4); 113, 126, 152 & 160 (3).
EMP/VC: 106, 152, 160, 195 & 220 (4); 113, 132, 145 & 182 (3).
STA/SS: 120 (6!); 285 (5); 126, 138 & 170 (4); 113, 145, 182 & 220 (3).
Most Balanced split: EMP/VC & STA/SS, with 5 Teams each (ranked) & a 38/46 split on ranked wrestlers.
Interesting note: Each split had 6#1's in one Regional and 8 #1's in the other, no matter how you split up Regionals.
Maybe there is something to be said for 2 Regionals. A little more parity at each weight, for the most part. What do you think, other than I had too much time on my hands?
"Praise the Lord, my Rock. He trains my hands 4 war & gives my fingers skill 4 battle."-Ps.144:1
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Devast8r]
#199385
02/15/12 08:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 781
back in the day
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interesting idea.
Would you still qualify 8 at each regional? Or 4?
If 8 nothing would really change.
The older I get the better I was!
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: back in the day]
#199391
02/15/12 11:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 181
Devast8r
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You would qualify 8 per regional, but the competitiion for those 8 spots would be more difficult. It would also lessen the need for 4 schools to host (a problem the past 2 years). It always seems that there is at least 1 bye at a weight at state in 5A or 6A, due to numbers. This way, it would be a full bracket at State.
"Praise the Lord, my Rock. He trains my hands 4 war & gives my fingers skill 4 battle."-Ps.144:1
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Devast8r]
#199392
02/15/12 11:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,326
Cokeley
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Place 4 only for 5A and 6A so all schools could easily fit in once place for a single site state tournament.
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Cokeley]
#199401
02/16/12 12:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 181
Devast8r
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As much as a good number of people would like to see a single site, all-class tournament, I don't think that the Facility exists in KS that could host it under the current format. A multiple-day (2+) may be necessary, an the economy can't support that either. I don't think we will see it happen in our lifetime, in my opinion.
"Praise the Lord, my Rock. He trains my hands 4 war & gives my fingers skill 4 battle."-Ps.144:1
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Cokeley]
#199402
02/16/12 01:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 844
WillyM
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Wrestling community, especially 4A folks, have been beating a dead horse for years on combining 6A and 5A--supposedly un fair opportunity of get to state. Now someone advocates, best I can tell from above, to cut the number of 5A and 6A schools INVITED to attend a regional---or reduce the number of 5a and 6A regionals.
Let me propose a change I have not seen on this forum. Revise 6A-5A-4A classes (forwrestliung only) to 48 schools each class. Combine the largest 16 5A schools with the 32 6A schools for a new 48 school 6A wrestling class; combine the remaining 16 smallest 5A schools with the largest 32 4A schools for a new 48 school 5A class; combine the smallest 32 4A schools with the 16 largest 3A schools for a new 48 school 4A class. I think these 3 classes each with 48 schools provides for a better, more equitable split by enrollment numbers. Do not think taking the 16 largest 3A schools to 4A materially affect the 321A State.
Hold four 12 team regionals with 16 plae brackets in each 6A, 5A, and 4A class. You would have to have 4 opens/byes in all opening rounds in each rgional---happens in many 5A and 6A regional already. As for seeding at regionals--seed the top 4 in each weight-seed the remaing 8 places by a draw. Also, seriously consider haveing the 1, 2, 3, 4 top seeds have to wrestle the opening round. Per weight class place 2 opens/byes in the middle brackets of the top half, and place 2 opens in the middle brackets of the bottom half. In this seeding system the top 4 seeds all would have an open round match. Have read complaints that top seeds getting opening round byes robs team points from the school of the top seeded wrestlers????? true or not??
The three 48 school classes levels the playing field and odds on getting to State. If we are going to do something, it will have to be unique or KSHSAA won't consider it.
Does this make sense? Think about it!! Comments!!
Last edited by Contrarian; 02/16/12 01:05 AM.
Bill Mason Lansing
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Cokeley]
#199407
02/16/12 01:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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Place 4 only for 5A and 6A so all schools could easily fit in once place for a single site state tournament. I agree and take it one step farther. Take only eight for each class to the State Tournament. Then we could get all classes in the same building. AND for the Love of Dan Gable, only place the top 4.
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: WillyM]
#199410
02/16/12 02:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 781
back in the day
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Wrestling community, especially 4A folks, have been beating a dead horse for years on combining 6A and 5A--supposedly un fair opportunity of get to state. Now someone advocates, best I can tell from above, to cut the number of 5A and 6A schools INVITED to attend a regional---or reduce the number of 5a and 6A regionals.
Let me propose a change I have not seen on this forum. Revise 6A-5A-4A classes (forwrestliung only) to 48 schools each class. Combine the largest 16 5A schools with the 32 6A schools for a new 48 school 6A wrestling class; combine the remaining 16 smallest 5A schools with the largest 32 4A schools for a new 48 school 5A class; combine the smallest 32 4A schools with the 16 largest 3A schools for a new 48 school 4A class. I think these 3 classes each with 48 schools provides for a better, more equitable split by enrollment numbers. Do not think taking the 16 largest 3A schools to 4A materially affect the 321A State.
Hold four 12 team regionals with 16 plae brackets in each 6A, 5A, and 4A class. You would have to have 4 opens/byes in all opening rounds in each rgional---happens in many 5A and 6A regional already. As for seeding at regionals--seed the top 4 in each weight-seed the remaing 8 places by a draw. Also, seriously consider haveing the 1, 2, 3, 4 top seeds have to wrestle the opening round. Per weight class place 2 opens/byes in the middle brackets of the top half, and place 2 opens in the middle brackets of the bottom half. In this seeding system the top 4 seeds all would have an open round match. Have read complaints that top seeds getting opening round byes robs team points from the school of the top seeded wrestlers????? true or not??
The three 48 school classes levels the playing field and odds on getting to State. If we are going to do something, it will have to be unique or KSHSAA won't consider it.
Does this make sense? Think about it!! Comments!!
Great idea. I made this suggestion two years ago after all the whinning about 4a being harder to get to state.
The older I get the better I was!
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Beeson]
#199413
02/16/12 02:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 844
WillyM
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So, if I understand Copkeley and Beeson, the 6A and 5A state tournaments would be an eight man bracket tournament, and we would do that so we could have all classes,654321A, in one in one building.
First, the 6A and 5A eight man tournaments could and should be wrestled in only one day--think the rule book may say that!
1. Doubt there is a big enough building in Kansas.
2. KSHSAA will never buy it--reduced 6A and 5A tournaments--or combining 6A/5A into a 64 school classification. Those 64 schools probably have 60-70 percent of the Kansas HS population--45321A has the other 30-40 percent. Talk about inequity!!!!
My 48 school classification for the biggest 654A 3 classes has a lot more good points to consider.
3.
Bill Mason Lansing
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: WillyM]
#199417
02/16/12 03:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 53
Massey
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I like the idea, however, it needs to go a step further. Wrestling only needs 3 classes. The 64 largest schools, the next 96 and everyone else. If that cuts to deep into 321 than drop 4a to 64. You run 8 district tourneys in the big class with the top 2 going to state and you wrestle a true 2nd place. You can still run all classes under one roof with 16 man brackets. Just make it a three day tourney. Why do we feel we have to wrap up every thing in 2 days?
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: WillyM]
#199431
02/16/12 07:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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So, if I understand Copkeley and Beeson, the 6A and 5A state tournaments would be an eight man bracket tournament, and we would do that so we could have all classes,654321A, in one in one building I can not speak for Mr. Cokeley, but my suggestion would be that all State Championships 6A,5A,4A,and 321A all be reduced to 8 man brackets. Then they could all be held in the same building. Only Place the Top 4.
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Massey]
#199432
02/16/12 10:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Why do we feel we have to wrap up every thing in 2 days? Money and loss of classroom time.
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: sportsfan02]
#199433
02/16/12 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
HEADUP
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Why do we feel we have to wrap up every thing in 2 days? Money and loss of classroom time. $$$ only- classroom time is already lost on Friday. Making weight for 3 days would be a huge change for the athletes.
"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: HEADUP]
#199434
02/16/12 11:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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What he and others are proposing is adding another day to the tournament. So at least one more day would be lost in the classroom.
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: sportsfan02]
#199435
02/16/12 11:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
HEADUP
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Friday- Saturday- wrap it up on Sunday- NO class time lost.
"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: HEADUP]
#199436
02/16/12 11:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 587
RJW1
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I used to buy KSHSAA's lost class time argument until I saw the schedule for 321A state at Hays this year. Kinda shoots holes in their case.
Rick Williams
Colby High School
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: Beeson]
#199438
02/16/12 12:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 844
WillyM
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In one of the posts on this forum (LOw attendance at League Tournaments) there was discussion on PROMOTING HS WRESTLING being necessary to expand/grow the sport in Kansas.
Reducing the state tournaments to 8 man brackets is a reduction of the program. One of the biggest reason to participate in any HS sport is the athletes' desire to get to the state tournament. Can not see that a reduced state will help the program, especially if we recognize that at state the seats are filled mostly with the families (and maybe close friends in a few cases) of the wrestlers on the mats. Do not think an all class 8 man bracket state tournament fan base will off set the loss of fans with 16 man bracket tournaments.
Added: I think the KSHSAA philosophy is, within time and money constraints, get the max number of student athletes into a state tournament. The current classification system does that! If you want to change the system you will have to devise a scheme that gets 16 wrestlers per weight to each of 4 tournaments. Any thing other than that is blowing smoke. Combining 5A and 6A is a loser at the git go. Getting an all class state under one roof with a friday/saturday format is not in the future--primarily due to the lack of a facility in the central part of the state (Salina, Manhattan, McPherson, maybe Topeka, etc). A 2 1/2 to 3 day tournament would be a lot more expensive for everyone--schools and fans--another night in motels, eats, another day of tickets and concessions. Can envision half full stands on a third day as the fans and wrestlers eliminated in day two go home.
Bill Mason Lansing
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: HEADUP]
#199439
02/16/12 12:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Friday- Saturday- wrap it up on Sunday- NO class time lost. SUNDAY events in Kansas??? Surely you jest!
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: RJW1]
#199450
02/16/12 01:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 750
L.Geyer
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Yes this is somewhat of a strange thing, but remember this is an exception to the rule, as FHSU is hosting Western Reginal for DivII wrestling, on Saturday, and Sunday, this is the only reason for this change.
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Re: What if we had 2 Regionals in 5A?
[Re: L.Geyer]
#199457
02/16/12 02:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 587
RJW1
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I realize it is a unique situation, but if missing an extra day of school is no big deal this year then why is it ever a big deal?
Rick Williams
Colby High School
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