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Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Beeson] #199889 02/19/12 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Beeson
Originally Posted By: Lucas Baker
Originally Posted By: Outlaws174
Just curious why does everyone want to combine 5A and 6A?

Ark City Kansas does not win 13 years in a row unless 20% of the kids at state have losing records.


Not a Factual Statement. Do you know why?


Luke, you never answered the question. Do you know why your statement is untrue?


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #199890 02/19/12 03:54 PM
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I have an idea. How about we keep whining about it? It is what it is. People like to bring in a good argument to young people: "Life isn't fair." Thats for sure. So what kids with losing records make it into the state tourney and kids with winning records dont. That kid who has a losing record and has bled, sweated, and worked hard to make it to state is just as deserving as the next guy. It's the luck of the draw.

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #199891 02/19/12 03:54 PM
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Lucass, did you watch any of the 5A regionals yesterday? If not, your opinion means little. The regional I went to had good competition. The kids that you think don't deserve to be there, qualified just like everyone did in 4A. Just like you did. Just like I did. Just like Beeson did. I know I am overstating this but I hope I can slow it down for you to understand.


Larry Woltje
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #199895 02/19/12 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lucas Baker
WHEN THE KIDS IN 3A AND 4A HAVE TO WIN 3 OR 4 MATCHES TO BE TOP 4
I watched a high school wrestler make it to State yesterday. He went 2-2 at Regionals and made the first State Tournament of his career. He has a sub five hundred record, but he has done everything that he can do to get to State. I am proud of him, and he deserves it.


Lee Girard
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #199898 02/19/12 04:21 PM
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Mr. Baker

I live in Kansas. I can see the town of Abilene from my front porch. I have a basement that is the home to my 3rd place 4A regional medal (I think).

Despite the fact I have lived the majority of my life in the 3A and 4A world, Im of the opinion all 5A/6A qualifiers are deserving of the state experience. For the most part it is tougher to make varsity in a 5/6A school than it is to get by a round or two at a 3/4A regional.

Duane Wuthnow
SHHS/SES wrestling parent

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: firehawk88] #199899 02/19/12 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: firehawk88
Lucass, did you watch any of the 5A regionals yesterday? If not, your opinion means little. The regional I went to had good competition. The kids that you think don't deserve to be there, qualified just like everyone did in 4A. Just like you did. Just like I did. Just like Beeson did. I know I am overstating this but I hope I can slow it down for you to understand.


freudian slip???


"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #199900 02/19/12 04:27 PM
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When I wrestle we went to the bobcat classic which had teams from our of state and it keeps getting harder every year. And I can honestly say i think that that tourney is harder than any of the state tournaments in Kansas.

And as for the caliber of kids. You r saying that? For example Larry's son Bryant had beat last years 321A, 4A, and 6A state champs. If I remember right he beat the 321A state champ in OT at silver lake and the 4A state champ pretty handily at Chanute's tournament. So Mr. Baker you post things on here before you know who is in these classes. And don't mistake these comments as saying that 5A an 6A are the best classes in the state of Kansas. Because, overall I do think that 4A is tougher.

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Outlaws174] #199902 02/19/12 04:40 PM
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Sorry Headup, you caught me.


Larry Woltje
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: firehawk88] #199929 02/19/12 07:28 PM
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I am a past 321a wrestler. I see both sides here. It really isn't fair for a kid in 321a to have mostly full 16 man brackets and wrestle their tail off and not go to state, then see a kid in 5 a with a 3-12 record be in a four man round robin. And the discussion about the level of competition in 5a is correct. Most d1 athletes you see wrestling in college come from 5a or 6a schools. Then again life just isn't fair at all.

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #199941 02/19/12 08:39 PM
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Disclaimer: Abilene High School Wrestling, its Coaches, Wrestlers, Parents, or Alumni, are not necessarily of the same opinion of those alumni who frequently post on this forum.

My opinion. Ark City is the real deal this year! They have been a nationally recognized wrestling powerhouse, one that any program in this state would love to achieve!
The records at state, or even regionals, dont matter anymore. If records bother you, dont look at them. But definately dont cut on anyone for doing their best, and finishing their season to the best of their abilities.

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #199944 02/19/12 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lucas Baker
Originally Posted By: Outlaws174
Just curious why does everyone want to combine 5A and 6A?

Ark City Kansas does not win 13 years in a row unless 20% of the kids at state have losing records.


Lucas please take your Beeson issue out on Beeson and quit disrespecting 5A and Ark City. Ark City is a time honored program and perhaps the greatest in Kansas HS Wrestling History. They are not just ranked #1 in 5A, they are ranked #1 in all class and placed ahead of all Kansas teams at Newton. Wayne Jackson is a Kansas HS Wrestling icon perhaps second to none. You are very disrespectful to both and all who come from the roots of which I speak. Nobody gets on here and bashes 4A or Abilene to prove their point or defend their position so why do you? You need a lesson.

Also recall that your precious Bo Maynes won his 4 titles in 5A. Are you suggesting that his titles are some how tarnished because of that? Because if you are not, you are certainly being a hypocrite.

And Beeson I know the answer to your riddle because as you probably know, I was there.

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: James Stout] #199950 02/19/12 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: James Stout
Disclaiimer: Abilene High School Wrestling, its Coaches, Wrestlers, Parents, or Alumni. Are not necessarily of the same opinion of those alumni who frequently post on this forum.

My opinion. Ark City is the real deal this year! They have been a nationally recognized wrestling powerhouse. One that any program in this state would love to achieve!
The records at state, or even regionals, dont matter anymore. If records bother you, dont look at them. But definately dont cut on anyone for doing their best, and finishing their season to the best of their abilities.


James, thank you for expressing the feelings and attitudes of most of us associated with Abilene wrestling and our respect for ALL wrestling competitors!!!!

Curtis Rein

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: XGHSWC] #199980 02/19/12 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: XGHSWC
And Beeson I know the answer to your riddle because as you probably know, I was there.


Yes you were! Your team was actually the reason for Lucass's incorrect statement. The answer is that Ark City only won 11 State Championships, not the 13 that Lucass has given credit for the last 3 years.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Beeson] #200051 02/20/12 04:00 AM
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How about this? we get a GRAND STATE a week after 3a, 4a, 5a, 6a state. The top 4 from 3a, the top 4 from 4a, the top 4 from 5a, and the top 4 from 6a all compete in a sixteen man bracket. I THINK THIS WOULD BE AN AMAZING thing for the sport and for the dumb arguments about which class is tougher. the state champ would match up with a 4th place kid from a different class and a runner up would match up with a 3rd place guy from a different class. I may be just dreaming, but i think this would be the greatest thing ever.

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: KansasFisher] #200052 02/20/12 04:05 AM
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i will donate $1,000.00 to get it started we got two weeks to plan it im sure will would host it in his barn


Butch Drylie
785-650-4404


Butch Drylie
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: XGHSWC] #200054 02/20/12 04:09 AM
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Ouch. Well said X-man! TRUE THAT! Sometime just plain, simple logic is just too painful for some people to get a grasp on.

Lucas, you might want to consider a course in into logic at a community college. It would be money well spent.

Dean Welsh
JC, KS


D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
***Dean plays well with others!!! ;-)
Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Dean Welsh] #200055 02/20/12 04:16 AM
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They could. Kids state exists. Unfortunately, most of them won't. It is up to them to come out for another month.

Terry

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Beeson] #200059 02/20/12 04:41 AM
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Lucas Baker Offline OP
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Never once did I mention This years Ark City team.
NEVER ONCE DID I MENTION THIS YEARS ARK CITY TEAM!

I RECEIVED A MESSAGE TODAY FROM A GUY THAT SAID HE LIKED MY POST ON 5A RECORDS. HE TOLD ME IT WONT GO OVER WELL THOUGH......... BOY WAS HE RIGHT! no body likes to be told the system sucks, but there are options to fix it , Something needs to be done!

James stout and Curtis Rein I have respect for every kid that steps on that mat I went 1-29 my soph year if you both have forgot. I know what it is like to only have to win one match and go to 5a state championship, I know what it is like to lose that match as well and if you both think its ok to have 44 kids with losing records at your state tournament, I question your wrestling sanity?

Beeson and the other guy that hides behind all those letters. If you think it is ok to have 44 kids with losing records in your regionals I question your wrestling Sanity too. A state tourny should be filled with the best wrestlers in the state.

Obviously you guys are fine with only 4 kids in regionals advancing to state weather they are worthy or not. More team points for the good guys RIGHT!

I love how pissed off you guys get when I slaps you in the face with the truth.

Fact 20% of wrestlers in 5a have losing records
Facts 1% of wrestlers in 4a have losing records.
30 something schools in 5a
30 something schools in 6a
60 something schools in 4a
60 something schools in 3a

You should not be allowed to advance to the State TOURNAMENT with out winning a match at regionals just because the big schools cannot fill a roster. COMBINE 5A AND 6A AND MAKE THE STATE TOURNAMENT COMPETITIVE!!!!!!

IS IT FAIR THAT IN 3A AND 4A A KID HAS TO WIN 3 OR 4 MATCHES TO PLACE TOP 4 YEAR AFTER YEAR. WHEN IN 5A 6A YOU BECOME A STATE QUALIFIER BEFORE REGIONALS EVEN STARTS DUE TO LACK OF wrestlers at the weight.

Drop down to 2 regionals do an 8 man state tourny
TAKE THE TOP 2 FROM YOUR REGIONAL HAVE AN 8 MAN BRACKET
combine 5a 6a
DO SOMETHING TO CHANGE THE *&^%^&%@ WAY IT IS NOW.

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Dean Welsh] #200060 02/20/12 04:52 AM
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Lucas Baker Offline OP
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Logic tells me there is something wrong when 20% of the kids at a state tourny have losing records. Logic tells me you do not have to win a match in some weights to go to state in 5a. Logic tells me since Bo was never taken down in high school he would have to be the best high school wrestler we have ever had.

Im not saying 4a is better than 5a im saying we need to change the tournament to accommodate the times. 5a regionals has had low numbers for years. Its hard to fill a team in a big school without wrestling History. I looked through the Emporia regionals there were a lot of 4,5 and 6 man brackets. I think there was one maybe 2 full 8 man brackets.
Originally Posted By: dwelsh
Ouch. Well said X-man! TRUE THAT! Sometime just plain, simple logic is just too painful for some people to get a grasp on.

Lucas, you might want to consider a course in into logic at a community college. It would be money well spent.

Dean Welsh
JC, KS

Re: 20% of 5a wrestlers at state [Re: Lucas Baker] #200146 02/20/12 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lucas Baker
[quote=D.W.]Oh! Ive been to Ark City once. All that stuff they had hanging on the wall didnt impress me at all. It means nothing, compared to my 3rd place 4A regional medal, thats stuck in a box somewhere in my basement.


Its on the wall right next to my 5a football state championship patch and my 2 back to back 4a Team wrestling titles and the college I wrestled at National championship.

LUCASS,
I don't really have a dog in this fight and find it senseless but I do have a question. The National Championship you won was surely a NCAA Div I, because you wouldn't settle for one from a lessor Division would you.

I've coached in 3A, 4A (while you were in high school) and 5A most recently.
I think most on this site would like to see a realignment of classes but few are foolish enough to try and belittle a class to try and make your own past seem tougher. Be proud of what your Cowboy Teammates allowed you to be a part of and what you accomplished and spend your time trying to improve the sport instead of wanting to whip Beeson.

Coach Alley


You've been Coaching how long?
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