Wrestling Talk Forums supported
USA Wrestling-Kansas KWCA Wrestling Talk Forums supported & maintained by USA Wrestling-Kansas USAW USA Wrestling-Kansas 
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: in it to win it] #200698 02/22/12 10:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
G
gofigure Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
G
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
There is an interesting point. The girl pinned the boy- but due to slow moving- out of position ref- it was taken out of her hands.

She did get the pin. I'm quite sure of that. Too bad he took forever to get there. He was pinned numerous times.

Not every 6U is a novice. Derby just takes 1st year wrestlers...some kids have wrestled for 3 years and go to Ottawa.

Now would you believe he is a KSHSAA official?

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: gofigure] #200699 02/22/12 10:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 23
B
Blast2l! Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 23
That saying is taken out of context.. i tell my wrestlers that to get them to get in there and get after it.. Somtimes a match is left up to the ref to decide. Nothing either wrestler could do to change it! Plain and simple..

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: John Taylor] #200714 02/23/12 12:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
R
Rford Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: John Taylor
A little off topic but!!!! Everyone makes mistakes,everyone! No matter how experienced you are or how much you know the rules mistakes are made, its just a fact of life for a referee. I officiated several years ago for about 3 or 4 years it is a hard thankless job that is exactly why i stopped doing it. I have coached high school, college, and kids club for the last 18 years. The one thing I don't understand about ref's and remember I know how tough their job is, is that when they do make mistakes instead of talking about it with the coach who asks them, the referees immediately gets a defensive posture and doesn't want to listen to what you have to say. It happens all the time and I guarantee, that they know they made the mistake and don't want to admit it. Referees have a very tough job everyone understands that, but before every tournament during the coaches meetings the head ref asks all the coaches to be respectful and handle things the right way. I think the ref's should start doing the same. It is within the coaches right to raise his hand and approach the table to get clarification and to express his opinion and understanding. Alot of times when i see coaches do this the ref immediately gets an attitude and doesn't want to listen. Coaches should always respect the referee's for what they do and for their knowledge but the coaches should get the same thing in return from the referee. Just my 2 cents.


From my personal experience, and based upon my observations, its a two way street. Inexperienced coaches and inexperienced officials have a hard time communicating. Hard headed coaches and hard headed officials butt heads. Mature, confident officials and mature, confident coaches can usually talk things over and get things resolved. Kids wrestling has its own set of issues and also has a lot of young officials and coaches who aren't mature (they are young).

At the HS level, in eastern KS, we have a pretty stable group of mature (older)officials and I see more guys reversing calls, explaining themselves, and apologizing to coaches when the call/match gets messed up.

That said, it is sometimes very hard to put on a happy face and not have an attitude when you hear a coach hollering about some "rule" that isn't a rule and then you see him walking to the table to tell you what the rule is, when you already know that he doesn't know the rule but you have to go to the table nonetheless. And you know that when you give him the "coaches misconduct" warning its not going to make things better. True story....after a table conference I told a coach I was warning him for "coaches misconduct" and he launched into an argument that he had been respectful, had not raised his voice, and why would I consider what he said misconduct?....seriously.

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: in it to win it] #200723 02/23/12 12:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
R
Rford Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
All I see in that video is way too many people on the edge of the mat....

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Rford] #200729 02/23/12 01:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Quote:
6U is very difficult if not impossible to seed. Most of the kids stay within a 50 mile range of where they live. So it is hard to tell how they stack up against the rest of the State. Alot of 6U wrestle quite a bit of novice so it is hard to tell how good they really are. Throw in the fact that they are 6 and can not or will not perform the same from one match to the next makes it harder still. Finally, most are coached to just throw headlocks, cow-catchers, and snakes, it is anybody's match when these kind of junk moves are taught to 6U. The winner is who ever fell on top. Blind Draw is the best way to go at 6U State.


I posted this on another thread about 6U state before I saw this video. The highlighted RED is all I saw.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Beeson] #200738 02/23/12 01:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
H
HEADUP Offline
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
............and the State can't figure out why we aren't getting enough officials.


"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Rford] #200739 02/23/12 02:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
G
gofigure Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
G
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
Too true- a poor venue made worse by the decision to only wrestle in one of two gyms available. it is up to the official to clear folks. And they rarely do.

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Beeson] #200742 02/23/12 02:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
G
gofigure Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
G
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
Which is all the more striking since the little girl used a knee block to get the take-down.

Since her arm was so deep- worked right to a reverse-half went they went to the mat.

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Rford] #200747 02/23/12 02:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
J
Jfer Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
I would be so grateful if the ref was shown this video and said he was sorry for missing the obvious call. He is human (as we all are) and mistakes are going to be made. The coach/parent in this instance were VERY respectful (as I believe they always should be as we are examples for our children).

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: in it to win it] #200751 02/23/12 02:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
B
Bronco Wrestler Offline
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
I watched the video and in it you can clearly see at first her hand is under the shoulder, then the young man lifts his right shoulder off the mat, then the official gets in the view as he's looking for the fall, at :50 it appears it could be a fall but we cannot see the other shoulder (but the official is right there) then at :55 he goes back to lifting his left shoulder off.

I didn't see a fall and a video this far away can be deceiving. The official was in good position to see it and apparently didn't see it.

This is just my opinion, probably not worth anything just my view.


Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: gofigure] #200753 02/23/12 02:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Originally Posted By: gofigure
Which is all the more striking since the little girl used a knee block to get the take-down.

Since her arm was so deep- worked right to a reverse-half went they went to the mat.


Your joking right! Both kids were just hanging on the head. There was no "Knee Block". They fell, she happened to be on top.

And I agree with Bronco Wrestler, I did not see a pin either. Nothing for the official to apologize for. I think an excuse is needed and it has to be the official. 6U parents are like the 6U kids, not really sure what is going on, but trying like hell and crying when the match is over.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Bronco Wrestler] #200755 02/23/12 02:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
R
Rford Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: Bronco Wrestler
I watched the video and in it you can clearly see at first her hand is under the shoulder, then the young man lifts his right shoulder off the mat, then the official gets in the view as he's looking for the fall, at :50 it appears it could be a fall but we cannot see the other shoulder (but the official is right there) then at :55 he goes back to lifting his left shoulder off.

I didn't see a fall and a video this far away can be deceiving. The official was in good position to see it and apparently didn't see it.

This is just my opinion, probably not worth anything just my view.


I thought the same thing...not really definitive on the film.... plus it is 6U and while I don't officiate kids, I know that in the middle school matches there is a little more time given in calling a fall...yes, the rule still says 2 seconds, but its kind of like speeding...on the interstate you might get by with driving 10 over the limit, but in a school zone you might get no break. So context does matter. Same in the NFL...holding occurs on every play, but it doesn't get called unless it affects the play. Here, and I don't officiate kids, maybe its the convention that you are a little more deliberate or slow when the bottom wrestler is working side to side and working.

More often we get criticized for calling falls too quickly...

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Bronco Wrestler] #200756 02/23/12 03:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
G
gofigure Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
G
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
Her right hand is over the top of right shoulder- reverse half. Not under. While red strolls around the mat. Oh- and she is laying on the left shoulder.

This video isn't far off though?

Meanwhile- video review from much further away is used in all sports.

Too bad took nearly 5 seconds for him to ease down to the mat.

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: gofigure] #200757 02/23/12 03:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
B
Bronco Wrestler Offline
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
In your 5 seconds you're talking about his right shoulder is off the which is apparent in the video.

This video is shot from across the mat, farther away than the official was. It was also shot at an angle where you cannot see the far shoulder of the defensive wrestler. I will agree in other sports video from further is used, but they also have multiple angles.

I can tell this is a conversation which will have no end, regardless of what is said. I have given my opinion and for what it's worth, I'll stick to it.


Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Beeson] #200761 02/23/12 03:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
G
gofigure Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
G
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12

Your joking right! Both kids were just hanging on the head. There was no "Knee Block". They fell, she happened to be on top.

And I agree with Bronco Wrestler, I did not see a pin either. Nothing for the official to apologize for. I think an excuse is needed and it has to be the official. 6U parents are like the 6U kids, not really sure what is going on, but trying like hell and crying when the match is over. [/quote]

It is "you're"- not your. But that might explain why you didn't see her reach down and grab his knee- thus resulting in him falling backward.

No excuse, she won by pin. But whosoever should question a ref should be banished! So sayeth the ref-club. When in doubt, chase people from the gym and call them cry babies.

Hey...wonder why that kshsaa official was available for the weekend in ottawa instead of being at numerous regional hs meets? I know! Probably downgraded and not invited. Bet he is free State weekend too.

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Bronco Wrestler] #200762 02/23/12 03:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Offical was slow...Official didn't want a girl to win...She would have won if it would have went all three periods...The Other Kid was pinned...you are giving this little wrestler every excuse in the world. How about parenting up and saying good match, you wrestled hard but lost. Lets work hard and try to do better next time.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: gofigure] #200764 02/23/12 03:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
B
Bronco Wrestler Offline
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
Originally Posted By: gofigure
Hey...wonder why that kshsaa official was available for the weekend in ottawa instead of being at numerous regional hs meets? I know! Probably downgraded and not invited. Bet he is free State weekend too.


If you really want to know why he wasn't at a regional on Sunday the 19th, it's because the 654321A Regional wrestling tournaments were held on Friday the 17th and Saturday the 18th. He probably had Sunday off and took the initiative to give back to the kids community.

What would I know though, I'm just part of that "ref club".


Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: Bronco Wrestler] #200767 02/23/12 03:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
G
gofigure Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
G
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
That's cool. Being there is a big thing.

I didn't just see video either. Heard from the girl's coach. Heard from opposing wrestler's dad/coach.

Issue is the angle ref was at -vs. angle video was from. Better shot than ref had from 6 feet above.

Another ref told me a ref has to have reaction time to get to the mat- that it was a pin- but ref wasn't there to see it- he needed reaction time. I laughed- only 5 seconds. But he stuck to the brotherhood- because is takes time to get there.

Re: 6 & under state official [Re: gofigure] #200768 02/23/12 03:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
If you have no tissue, go to the restroom and get some toilet paper, but please stop crying all over this topic.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: 6 & under state official [Re: gofigure] #200769 02/23/12 03:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
B
Bronco Wrestler Offline
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
You guys seem to be missing the point that, although he wasn't down on the mat ASAP, he can still clearly see that the shoulder is being held off the mat. It's not hard to see. You can see that from above, the side, etc.

If you haven't ever officiated I would like to extend an invitation to each and every one of you guys to join the brotherhood of officials. Send your $5 to Mike Juby and get registered and go from there.


Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Derek Patterson), 160 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
bvswwrestling, CoachFitzOS, Dluce, Shawn Russell, CorbinPickerill
12302 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics35,948
Posts250,380
Members12,302
Most Online709
Nov 21st, 2011
Top Posters(All Time)
usawks1 8,595
smokeycabin 6,248
Aaron Sweazy 5,255
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.2
(Release build 20190702)
PHP: 7.2.34 Page Time: 0.026s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8622 MB (Peak: 1.1361 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-05-13 23:14:58 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS