Two wrestlers, one is obviously superior and the score is way out of hand. Superior wrestler is on top and puts his chest on his opponent and puts both hands behind his back. The wrestler on bottom is still unable to get up. Is this Stalling on the TOP MAN for not trying to turn, Stalling on the BOTTOM MAN for still not being able to escape, or TAUNTING on the part of the TOP MAN?

Well I'm not an official, however, I would call that unsportsmanlike conduct and penalize him accordingly. Very disrepectful to his opponent.

I agree with bbd

I would go have a serious discussion with the coach about bringing dishonor to a great sport. Save your spin drills for the wrestling room.

"There is no thing as bad student, only bad teacher.
Teacher Say,
Student Do."

Although this is on the High School Forum I did have a first year wrestler once that hit the spin drill (using his hands) because that is the way we worked it in practice. He kept spinning like 5 times around the kid before I could get him to stay behind the hips.

I worked Mat 4 where the match being referred to above occured. "Thankfully, I was on a break at the time of this exact match," However in retrospect, if we are going to have a discussion, perhaps we should all be concerned with the way the adults present around this match handled the situation opposed to what a (16) year old did or didn't do.

My opinion, the wreslter in question should go about his tactic in a different manner. But I do think the word "dishonor" is inappropriate given the circumstances. Sometimes, even the best wrestlers need to have the reigns pulled. Nothing further is required.

Darren Claphan

Andover Central Junior Coach

Besides trying to embarrass another wrestler, I have a few other concerns. 1. This is a very good wrestler who others emmulate. Is this the type of behavior that we want other wrestlers to exhibit? An Ark City kid tried to do the same thing in a match after watching the before mentioned match, and The Ark City Crowd Booed the behavior and his coaches told him to cut it out immediately. 2. This is not the first time I have seen this wrestler do this to an opponent. So if the reins are being pulled back, maybe they need to be pulled a little harder so that the behavior stops. I am still curious what the call is though.

I agree. I was watching a match this weekend and seen that happening and at first I thought my eyes were fooling me. Then as I watch more closely, I thought the top wrestler was trying to show that the bottom wrestler was not trying to build up and hoping for a stall call. Also, I know that my son has raised up off of a wrestler that was not working on bottom, similar to this situation. Although he was trying to show that the bottom wrestler was not trying to build up, my son was hit with a 1 point "taunting" call. He has never done it again.

As much as you will not like to hear this, the correct call is like anything else in wrestling, that is, it lies in the eye of the beholder. If you believe the wrestler is "Showboating/taunting" then you hit them with an unsportsmanlike "I.E. Letting a wrestler completely go after having them on their back." If you believe the wrestler is doing this to prove the bottom man is not working, then you warn the bottom man. Obviously, officials to this point have not penalized the wrestler otherwise he probably wouldn't be doing it.

Additionally, my comment "Pulling in the reigns" is what I would do. I am not the H.S. Coach and have no power to persuade one way or another. All Coaches continue to grow and learn daily, "Ark City" is not absent from this statement.

On a final note, I tend to agree with you that the wrestler should refrain from doing this moving forward, but I would also say that the wrestler in question brings many more "POSITIVES" to the sport (Good Grades, working with Youths, hard work, dedication, ect...) than negatives. Again, these are kids and as adults we should expect a little antagonistic behavior.

Darren Claphan

That is some excellent coaching, right there, Coach!

I agree, but shouldn't we expect the proper consequences to antagonistic behavior? I was not at the match, I have no idea what context should be taken other than what was asked in the question. Given the parameters of the question, it sounds like show-boating to me and a disservice to a great sport.

I was firmly planted in a gym watching 4th/5th grade girls basketball games. (All daughters, guys, all I have are basketball analogies, sorry) I was appalled by the antigonistic behavior of some of the parents at these games, only a mater of time before the parents behavior is emulated by their children. Too late for some, 4th and 5th grade girls, putting their hands up everytime a foul is called, looking to their parents in the stands in disbelief, parents letting them know what a bad call it was. Horrible. My daughter puts her hands up or even attempts to look at a ref, she does not play. If her coach thinks that kind of behavior is acceptable, we can find many other meaningful activities. I saw a 4th grade girl, late in a close game get applauded by the opposing fans when she missed a free-throw. Not even my daughter's team, but I wanted to go punch some people in the mouth. Unfortunately, my job foces me to keep some level of decorum in public. That is why I have the forum to gritch on, fellas! Thanks, I feel better now.

My philosophy has always been if you are obviously better than someone pin them and get it over with. It shortens the tournament and helps your team score more team points.

Plus I like to go fast, so working for a quick fall is the best way to do that in wrasslin'.

I guess since this is not hypothetical and most of us know which wrestler is being discussed, I’ll state that I’m certain that this wrestler was not showboating. The wrestler was frustrated and doing it to prove the bottom man was not working. Having said that, I’ll also ad that I do not condone that tactic as the only audience that really matters is the official and I can’t think of many that would say “thank you” for your help young man, I didn’t notice he wasn’t working. Personally I think if it is an inferior wrestler that cannot defend himself and neither wrestler is gaining experience, you roll em over and pin em.
As for the adults at mat side, it was a heated match between two teams with a healthy rivalry and a misfortunate comment was made by someone that should have been silent. Apologies have been made by the offending party and accepted and it won’t happen again.

If a wrestler is being overpowered it is no stalling as per the rule book, and from the sounds of it, he was overpowered/over matched.

Which if you go by that train of thought that he couldn't defend himself, then what the top man wasn't doing, should warrant a stall call (or unsportsmanlike if done in a taunting manner). If the bottom kid is overpowered so bad he cannot build up or move off bottom then why isn't the top wrestler doing more?

Just a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question...

I like your philosophy.

Beeson would be talking about 5a 113, bout number 284 between Marco Perez vs Zac Gentzler, I would love for someone to post a video of this match. Yes Zac put both hands behind his back only to show the ref Marco was not doing anything at all. Zac wrestled very mean and tuff. I sent Beeson a text asking if if Zac hated Marco after the match. He did not respond.

Beeson if you are going to ask about a call you should post video for all to see. IMO Zac was not stalling, He scored 16 points showboating maybe but he was only showing the ref that Marco was not doing anything on bottom.

Perez is a very good wrestler, Gentzler is one of the best. I didn't see the match, but both of these wrestlers placed in State. I guess Perez should have fought harder, and Gentzler should have stuck him. I am only basing this off the information that I have read in this post.

It sounds like stalling on bottom to me. No one at state should be able to be ridden with the use of the top man's hands to control him, especially at 113. I totally disagree with Beeson's assessment. If it would have been a Bulldog on top instead of bottom, he would have a completely different tone. I think top man is basically saying "LOOK! He is not opening up!" Many of our officials, especially those who never competed in the sport, have no idea what stalling is. It is the most under applied and misapplied rule in wrestling.

Well a Bulldog did do it later in the Tournament and The Bulldog Crowd did not approve of the action. His coach told him to cut that crap out immediately and it was stopped. So what is so special at the 113 pound class that no one there should be ridden? What makes that weight so Equal? I'm interested in your thoughts on that.

Zac is a good kid and this post should probably be taken down. We are talking about an 8 point match in the state Semi Finals. A little more on the line than a regular dual match. This is such a minor thing and I am sure the official handled the situation accordingly.

These kids are trained to dominate, wrestle hard, and win. We expect them to shut that off when a few adults (not wrestling) think they are superior wrestlers or the match up is not even. Let's move on.

Congrats to Zac on dominating his way to 3rd title.

Congrats to Ark City for winning the team title.