Some wrestlers perceive a Tech-fall more embarrassing than being pinned.But that is their perception and not everyone's.My earlier post was that people will have different perceptions that are not necessarily everyone's opinion.

Not referencing this match, I have seen the take down method used when a wrestler perceives that he cannot pin his opponent

Mr. Perz.

Interesting you say I'm misquoting posts,

Here's the full post the Entophobic posted"

"In hindsight though...I think the other kid didn't know what to do when his arm was trapped so it got awkward. Watch a real good kid against a not so talented one....I have seen a lot of injuries to the better kid due to the awkwardness of the lesser skilled guy who may go the wrong way on a move."


Notice how you conveniently took off the first part of the quote, the one about the Salina Cenral kid now knowing what to do do when he was in an awkward situation. And your say I'm misquoting and manipulating the facts. Why don't you post the whole comment. I think a little of that might be going on from you.

I'll concede a little that Isaac's comment, (that was removed from the sight already) might of been miscontrued either way. Is he agreeing with just the fact that the better wrestler gets hurt sometimes or that the Salina Central kid got hurt because he was awkward. Maybe both.

And also heres my point # 4. And why do you think this is attacking Isaac? Again, miscomprehension by Perz.
My opinion, he did not get hurt due to the awkwardness of his skill level.

Isaac might be a kid, but he got online and gave his opinion knowing that it would be subject to scrutiny. I can live with my opinions beign attacked just like you're attacking me now. Is there a forum rule that says we can't comment on someones opinion if that individual is below 18.

I would apologize the comment "on arrogance" if he would clarify his quote about the awkward wrestlers getting hurt. (The one which is removed) .

Im Dayton Will's dad we in no way feel that Issac did that on purpose it was just an accident and part of wrestling.And Dayton is doing good just a bad headache still and has to go through the stages to get cleared by the doctors for his concusion.As far as skill level is concerned Dayton has wrestled many years and a multiple state and national placer he knew it was going to be a very tough match and yes Issac is a different breed of a wrestler his is amazing.My son has wrestled other great wrestlers over the years as in Zak Gentzler Bo Pursel Dakota Leach just to name a few but he loves the sport and has meet some of the greatest people because of wrestling.His first question when he started talking was Am I going to make it back in time to weigh in.Like to say thank you all for the text messages and coming over to talk to us the next day thats what is so great about being a part of the wrestling community

Isaac most likely responded to this thread as he was accused of intentionally trying to punish and make the other wrestler look silly. I am not trying to state his intentions as he is the only one that knows his intentions. Change my user name to Pollyanna, but I see this as an accident and the blame should lie with neither wrestler.

This might be a lesson for a lot of young wrestlers and coaches, the longer a match lasts anything can happen. When you have a chance to be the champion, particularly at the state tournament probably best to finish quickly if possible. Its unfortunate that the kid got hurt and that Dulgarian wont be able to lay claim to being a 4 timer.

"Best"? Where did you find this evaluation? I am not saying I disagree but I don't think this is the place to be making that claim.

If you watch the video, Will's arm is trapped and he has no way to break his impact to the mat. This is much like a two on one when standing then tripping the opponent to the mat on the side where he cannot protect himself. Isaac didn't do it on purpose but he did initiate a move that he had the responsibility of returning the opponent to the mat safely. Will had no way to protect his head and neck as his arm was trapped. Unfortunate but as I told Isaac, three timers have been VERY successful in college and when he stands on the D1 podium this will all be a very distant memory. Hats off to him for his composure and respect. I admired him more for his conduct than for his great wrestling skills. VERY classy. Keep working hard Isaac.

Well said Will. I agree.

And K. Perez - congrats on your championship!

Very well said. It reminded me of another incident at the Sunflower League Tournament a couple of weeks back. The biggest difference, that one (Sunflower League) came from a higher elevation and seemed to have more velocity toward the mat.

"I guess that the drive to be the best at something in our sport is wrong. Casing records is BS and should not be allowed. I guess we need to just stop keeping records all together if it is classless. I guess acording to you Isacc should lose all his matches that way because he is a better wrestler and chooses to show it. I guess Adrien Peterson should have blown out his knee again for tring to rush for the most yards in history. Maybe, Cal Ripkin Jr. should have gotten hurt because he showed up everyday and went to work for something like 15 yrs strait. You can call it showbaoting all you want, it is scoring points, dont you need to score points to win, and if you are giving up a point everytime you cut him, then you need to score more points. It's a style, one not everyone agrees with, just like picking top because you are better in that position, so maybe we should outlaw Garden City's tilts, that way the rest of 6A could have had a shot. Once again, proof that our society continues to get softer and softer. Lets just start to flip a coin that way everything is fair"

Come on 311Fan you can come up with a better argument than that... The bs had nothing to do with records or being soft. If you knew me you would know that I am the total opposite of being soft on anything. Tough love needs to be used 100 times more then it is being used today. That takedown record didnt do much for the end goal of that state championship quest did it? (at least in your brothers situation) That wasnt what was bs anyway, what was when wrestling opponents that are not the caliber to contest the takedowns. Taking a wrestler that is so far beneath you shows nothing what so ever. Now if you need to wrestle the match on your feet to win the match that is a totally different situation. And you now a tilt is not even in the same world as taking down kids over and over. One thing is for sure, never seen anyone get dq'd for a tilt that was to agressive, have you? Is a unfortunate situation to one of our states best wrestlers who hopefully learned a lesson on how things can happen. It was under his control to keep from happening. He hit a move hard, which you have to do, a arm got trapped, and momentum carried it to what happened. It didnt need to happen, match could have been over long before. Should ofs and could ofs, he will be back no problem. You want a cool goal that only one person has that is amazing to me... Bo Maines didnt loose a match but also, never gave up a takedown in high school. Now that is something that cant be broken only tied... If everyone that gets on here and posts feelings, cared about the sport as much as throwing stabs at others (myself included) this sport would be in a much better place then it is.

I believe that ex heights coach was simply stating an opinion like many others, including yourself, do on this forum. His evaluation I would guess is based on years of watching and perhaps working with this official. There is nothing wrong with him making this claim regarding the official...just as there is nothing wrong with people claiming or stating the opinion that it was not a slam, intentional or showboating.

When I wrestled in the early eighties - we didn't have the tech fall rule in MO at that time.

I remember some studs beating me like 46 - 10! I never thought any less of them. They inspired me to do one of two things, find something I was better at OR work hard and get better myself at wrestling.

I chose to try to get better at wrestling. I progressed to 'average'! Grin.

I hold no resentment or bitterness towards all the kids that whipped the tar out of me. And, I turned out OK as an adult. It did not 'wreck me for life'.

I'm sure both Will and Issac will both get along fine in life.

Congrats to both of you for placing at state.

For the record, my son and I watched the video together and his initial response was something like "What, that is what he got DQ'd for? That is not that bad." We ran it in the "slow mo" mode and he did agree that Dayton was pretty much defenseless. This is coming from a young man that has been planted pretty hard a number of times over his twelve year career.

Disclaimer: Will C., I said I watched this with my high school son, not my wife:=}

I don't recall the take-down let up being illegal ever. Danny Knight, a good wrestler from Iowa used it when he was in HS.
It is illegal (taunting) to let a kid off his back repeatedly. That was an interpretation that came out after the taunting rule was adopted. The takedown situation is, or was, a case book example as being allowed, though. But I'm still a young man so I don't remember everything that happened in the day.

Having an arm trapped puts your opponent at risk and as this situation reveals, it can cost you a point, or a match.

MMA is absolutely causing a bad influence in wrestling. As is a general lack of sportsmanship in all sports and in society in general. Too many jerks with not enough societal pressure to be civil and treat each other with respect. Even on this forum you sometimes see people being rude to one another.

Also for the record, I too think that Isaac is a fine young man and an incredibly gifted wrestler (much through dedication and years of hard work, not to mention he is physically gifted). I have always been one to say that you should pin your opponent at the first opportunity. I must admit, I was relieved when Isaac wrestled my son last year and put on a take down clinic getting the 25-10 tech fall. None of those take downs were rough, they were just text book. Garrett and I still chuckle when I say "Remember that time you wrestled Dulgarian and scored ten points on him?" I am sure that we will laugh even harder when Isaac finishes a very successful D1 wrestling career.

I'm a high school wrestler who has competed against sta and Isaac for the past few years. Every time I have spoken with him he is very humble and respectful towards his opponents. He would never have the intent to harm a competing wrestler. And for the arguement of showing up the the other wrestler it's just his way of wrestling he has been doing this for the past two years and nothing has came up from it until now. He is a great kid as I'm sure Dayton Will also. I wish the best of luck to both wrestlers in the future

Yikes.

One could infer from the above that you think Isaac is a 'jerk'. I think he was just wrestling hard. I don't think his intent was to 'hurt' or 'punish' any one.

He is aggressive. That is why I enjoy watching him wrestling. It's never going to be a 'watching paint-dry' kind of match when he is wrestling.

I wish they would call stalls more often and make the kids pick up the action. Too much backing up. Too much hanging on heads when on their feet. Too much just riding parallel when on top. I love our great sport. But the stuff I mention above is not a way to grow our fan base.

Wrestle hard. Wrestle aggressive. Yes, I know. You have to wrestle smart also.

Non-stop action. That is what builds our fan base. Bottom man always working to improve his position and the top man out to the side working for a pin!

When Ben Askren was trying to break the record for most take downs in Wisconsin the officials created their own unsportsmanlike interpretation to prevent Ben from taking down and releasing wrestlers. In fact, I saw this called in Cedar Falls two years ago by an official. After the match I asked him if he was from Wisconsin and he was. We then chatted about it and looked at the rule book. He had been taught by WI officials to call it that way even though the rule book did not state this.

Yikes.

One could infer from the above that you think Isaac is a 'jerk'. I think he was just wrestling hard. I don't think his intent was to 'hurt' or 'punish' any one.

Oh for crying out loud....you don't have to worry about needing to infer what I think...I'll tell you bluntly. Please don't infer that I have any opinion at all about this match or this call or this 16 year old outstanding wrestler. As far as I can tell, he's as good as they come and I would not have a clue as to his personality or any personal traits.

My comment was directed at MMA and how that type of activity, combined with what I believe is the obvious, well-known erosion of civility causes. It has nothing to do with this one match and one minor penalty point and I never tied the two together. It was an unnecessary roughness call and I don't have any opinion on it at all.