Just an fyi on some interesting happenings elsewhere. Pa is eliminating the 14 under division from kids state. As of next year they will hold a junior high state championship on its own at the conclusion of the junior high season. It will be run just like the high school state tournament. This is believed to make a true state tournament for the junior hidgh kids. Freshman will have the option of wrestling highschool or junior high. The kids state tournament will be a stand alone tournament for 8under 10 under and 12 under only no junior high wrestlers allowed to compete

Mike pirl

Just totally overlook the Facts that were presented concerning John Smith. Totally overlook the Facts presented by bradbee. Totally overlook the Facts presented by tryingtobesilent. Totally overlook the common sense comment by teamphelps. I am assuming you are overlooking these comments and facts because they can not be disputed and make your proposal look silly. It is easy to argue and debate emotions, "it's unfair" and "boo hoo". Not as easy to debate facts.

Your right Cokeley, Kansas wrestling is in the toilet right now because we can not force five kids to wrestle up an age group. And you might want to check your own backyard before you start trying to clean up anybody elses.

And while we are on the subject, which brings more shame to the wrestling community....

A. 14 year old (that was good enough to place at HS state) wrestling a 14, or maybe a 13 year old in the USAWKS state series.

B. 14 year old sitting at home watching tv, eating pop-tarts, and enjoying some Face Book time.

C. A kid taking a redshirt year before they reach HS. =)

Will,

I believe what Beeson meant by look in your own backyard... the highest placed kid at HS state that is also wrestling in 14U kids series is from your team at St. James. HE IS NOT WRESTLING.

Also why are we so down on Kansas wrestling? Aren't there several Kids from Kansas wrestling in the NCAA Divison 1 Championships? Haven't we had several win or place well in other college divisions this year? Since 2010 we are in a severe downward spiral when it comes to national level wrestlers.

By the way the numbers say most of the HS placers are being run out of the Kids series not moving them up.... Is this the goal? To shame kids from participating in the Kids series? Over half of all 9th graders that placed at HS state are sitting this year out of the kids series....

Will I understand your perspective but I do not see how this bylaw change will improve Kansas wrestling. You have shown no linkage or evidence as to how freshman wrestling in 14U makes Kansas worse in wrestling.

The argument that other states don't do it doesn't fly. There are too many other reasons that contribute to why some states are better than KS and why KS is better than a lot of other state.

Your quote: One thing is certain. Without change there can be no improvement and Kansas needs to improve.

In general terms you correct....without change there can be no improvement. The trick is showing how a change will cause improvement. You have not done that with the case of 5 high school wrestlers wrestling in the 14U kids state. Heck, I would argue it helps us improve. The 8th graders that they have to wrestle know that they have to spend their season prepping to wrestle high school kids potentially. I know it motivated a lot of our 8th graders to put in extra work.

"Kansas needs improvement"- Really, based on what? What kind of improvement? Define the end state you see or the conditions of wrestling in KS that would cause you, Chief, etc to say....Man, we made it. As a state we have achieved our goal.

If there is no goal, end state, or vision set forth then it is impossible to establish programs and define success of those programs.

So far all I see is that we must suck because we let 5-15 freshman wrestle for 3 weeks in the 14U kids state series. If we change this bylaw then KS wrestling will be improved and successful. I absolutely do not see the linkage to this and being successful as a state.

Shawn Budke