Was sitting in the stands during finals at Derby. There appeared to be some drama after 126 finals match. All you could make out from the stands was that Coach Church " had passed the test". Anyone that was there or involved explain what was issue was?

WiLL Coakley the Dad of Coakley the wrestler of 126 pounds of SJA was filming and had a couple of parents( his friends) filming the match , which is against the rules!! IF YOU WANT TO RECORD A MATCH JUST MAKE SURE YOUR KID IS ON THE MATT WRESTLING AT THAT TIME.

Will was sitting next to me in the stands and did NOT film the match. There was a mom on our left that did film it but I have no idea who that was. The bottom line is this. There were over fifty cell phones out in the gym filming it. There is no penalty whatsoever for filming this year. The rule was changed at the national level.

Dang, I love this forum. Matt? Mat! Posters beware of who you call out and pick fights with. Cracking me up.

National Federation of State High School Associations
Wrestling Rules Book 2013-2014
Rule 1-1-3 (page 6)
Video recording is authorized unless prohibited by the state high school association.

KSHSAA Wrestling Manual 2013-2014 (page 13)
1.M Filming or Video Taping Matches
Any filming or video taping for the purpose of review during competition is prohibited. This includes multiple day tournaments. Video taping and camera filming are considered one and the same and can only occur when there is competition between your wrestler and an opponent. Again, taping and filming cannot take place when you do not have a wrestler involved at that time. The only exception would be the state consolation and championship finals where video taping and camera filming of any match is permissible.

I did see that rule still included in our state manual. I don't know the details, but had heard that the rule changed in Kansas also and that rule was marked to be deleted and was not for this year. Isn't it reduced to a suggestion without an actual penalty?

Here is the link to the KSHSAA manual. See page 13 1M. KSHSAA Manual

Sean is a special wrestler! You could follow him around with a camcorder all season long and I would bet the farm that he still wins state this season!

Lame Richard. Lame. Like I said, be careful about those you pick fights with. Richard does not play well with others on this forum or face to face.

Okay, let's put this one to rest. I'll summarize it and call it good. Will was following the National Rule and thought video taping was okay. He was under the idea that KSHSAA had changed the rule based on the National Rule. I saw one woman filming close to the SJA section (She was probably more interested in McDonald than Deshazer) and two of my other coaches saw two other people filming in the SJA section (Who probably wanted to get film on Sean).

I brought it to the attention of the Derby A.D. He correctly and swiftly addressed and corrected the issue with the fans that were pointed out. Mr. Baldwin is a good A.D. and does not play around!

Will tried to convince me that the rule had changed. I tried to convince him it had not. Now, I did not say "I passed the test". I simply stated, "I actually took the rules test and it did not change". (I actually answer all 100 questions and don't just get answers from others). After a heated debate, Will and I parted ways for a while. I knew the National Rule and change, but I also knew that the KSHSAA Manual stated that you could not film opponents whom you were not competing against at that time (Summary) just as Richard listed above. While I may not be the greatest coach in the world (As one of my parents has let me know over and over again that I am the worst coach in Kansas), I keep a very close tab on rules as directed by my A.D. and KSHSAA.

I keep the KSHSAA Manual on my phone for days like these. I pulled Rule 1.M up screen shot it and sent it to Will via text messsage with a message that said, "I will drop it tonight with an apology". Will looked at the text, made his way across the gym, explained again what he thought, admitted he was wrong and asked if we were good (That's an apology from Will for those of you that know him well). And now guess what, we are good!

I don't have time to get into petty arguements but I am going to back my kid every time in a situation like this.

Now, with that being said:

KSHSAA needs to change the rule for next year. Just remove all video rules. Times have changed and there are too many recording devices out there to police it. But while it is a rule, it needs to be followed. When you can film on a phone, tablet or even a watch... Good luck! I am sure the matches hit the internet before I got home from my 30 min drive.

As far as the Deshazer's and Cokely's are concerned... It's been a decade long fued....I hope someday both can find peace and just move on. Both love wrestling, both love their families, both will battle for their families under any circumstances... both have more in common than they know. While I believe it is more of an adult issue as I think the kids of these families will be fine being in a room with each other after all of their time together in this sport!

Now, let's get back to what matters... getting better and watching a great show in February!

I love me some Coach Church! PREACH!! Lets all get along and move on. agreed

Heights wrestling is getting better every week. Church is a great coach wouldn't trade him for any other coach.

I did not video the match and I did not concede to Coach Church that he was right. I did not have the lady sitting in front of us video the match. I don't need to record what I am watching and I have seen Sean plenty of times. The finals were being recorded as they are for lots of tournaments so they can be posted and enjoyed by all those who couldn't make it to the tournament.

Did anyone complain when I posted every finals from The Bobcat and other tournaments? Did I complain when three versions of the Cade Blair vs Ryne Cokeley finals from Derby were posted on youtube? HECK NO! I have NEVER looked into the crowd to see if anyone if videoing matches or to see who is. I could care less.

I was delighted to hear Mark Lentz tell us that KSHSAA was adopting the NFHSAA video rule. See slides 17,18, and 19 on this link http://kshsaa.org/Meetings/Public/Coach/Wrestling/player.html

I raised my hand at the rules meeting conducted at Olathe South HS on October 8th. I asked Mark Lentz if this change would be updated in the handbook and if we were then going to be allowed to video any matches. He answered by saying we were adopting the NFHSAA rule. I followed this up later with an email of the paragraph everyone is quoting. As you can see if you viewed and listened to the slides, the rules meeting is in direct conflict with the Handbook paragraph. I never received any further clarification so I assumed based on this chain of events KSHSAA was adopting the NFHSAA rule which permits all video recording of matches.

If the Handbook trumps then there can be no review of video with a wrestler during a tournament. So is part of the paragraph being enforced and not the rest? It is uncertain and I don't see how the rule can apply to spectators as I am guessing 90% have NO IDEA that such a rule exists.

If the rule is enforced then there can be no live streaming and archiving of matches.

If the rule is enforced then we need to discover the poster of all KSHSAA matches on youtube.

Are those two things good for promoting wrestling?? NO!!

I question whether the rule applies to spectators. Does it say ANYWHERE in the handbook that it does? I read it as applying to competitors, coaches, and employees of the member schools.

Has anyone EVER heard them announce at the beginning of a tournament that no video recording is permitted unless it is of your own kid?? I know I never have.

Coaches, do you have a parents meeting to educate your parents about the video recording rule? You all know the answer is NO!

Why have a rule that can only be truly enforced by having everyone leaving their video recording devices outside of the gym? Why have a rule that damages our sport. I agree with the poster that said you can watch all of the video you want, doesn't mean you will beat someone.

This is just another case of a governmental organization not keeping pace with technology. Abolish the rule. One AD told me that there is NO way he is going to patrol this or even attempt to enforce it. He says a majority of AD's want the rule to be stricken. KSHSAA needs to decide whether or not their meetings are going to be consistent with their publications too.

You can google or youtube search all of my sons and there are plenty of matches publicly available. Have fun watching them. I would be flattered if someone was filming any of them. Good luck to them because it takes hours of practice, hard work and dedication to be a champ, a piece of electronic media is not a substitute for ANY of those things.

Good luck to all. I hope EVERYONE records and posts every match the rest of the year! It is the best way to promote our sport!

I will be the first one to say abolish video rules and be done with it. However, when a rule is contested, it is contested by going to the current KSHSAA Manuel. You never say, "Look in the rules slide show" when you are trying to contest a rule. The Manual trumps all unless an email is sent out to all state A.D.'s modifying the handbook! This has not been done.

Maybe Mark Lentz should just do it now and get it done and we never have to worry about it again! I agree with most of what Will says.. We just have to disagree here until Mr. Lentz makes a rule change official for and publicly puts it on the KSHSAA Website!

On that note, let's also change the weigh in rules to meet the National Rules Standards and abolish the morning weigh in for duals.

And yes, Will.... You did concede and it's okay to do that in life sometimes!

And NOW COACH CHURCH is my HERO. What a wonderful idea to teach these young men how it is going to be in College. A Wonderful Suggestion. I have never understood why Kansas has not followed the NFHS rules on this. We could take it one step further and just step into line with the NFSH rulebook. That would make messes like what happened this weekend obsolete.

I was at the same officials meeting at Olathe South. Surprised there was a big stink over any filming. thought that issue was taken care of. Perhaps Mr. Lentz needs to update the rest of the world.

#1 The National Federation rule regarding video was adopted by the KSHSAA. Unfortunately, the KSHSAA wrestling manual was not changed. The rule change was part of the on-line rules meeting presentation (as provided by Will). I hope there will be a reaffirmation coming from the KSHSAA of the rule change having taken place in Kansas.

#2 I am pretty sure Coach Church was a member of the KSHSAA Weight Loss Committee, as was I. He may have a different memory of those deliberations, but I do not remember there being any discussion whatsoever during any of the committee meetings (and I missed only one) about the need to depart from morning weigh-ins. In fact, I remember the two physicians on the committee being quite complimentary of Kansas for having morning weigh-ins. If we are going to "toe the line" we will also need to adopt the NFS weight control plan.

What a silly rule. Impossible to enforce. It doesn't say you can't record, it states that you can't record "with the purpose of reviewing"...

So I can record all that I want, I just can't watch it.

KSHSAA Wrestling Manual 2013-2014 (page 13)
1.M Filming or Video Taping Matches
Any filming or video taping for the purpose of review during competition is prohibited.

Church

Get idea about us following the National Weigh in policy Im all for it.


Josh Carroll

While I think this is probably just a hold-over in the current manual based upon the prior rule, isn't the intent to prevent a team from video taping another team's wrestler for purposes of scouting at the time the contest is occurring? As noted above, the prohibition relates to reviewing during competition. It also refers to "your" wrestler. Since this is a KSHAA publication, I read "your" as meaning the school's, not the parent.

Film away.