Please sit down before you read these next four lines!!

Out of 92 321A teams only THREE, yes 3, have a full roster of 14.
59 4A teams... just 7 muster a full line up for their regional.
5A...a meager 9 of 32 and all of these schools have more than 700 students!!
6A a little better 11 of 32 but if you have 1200 to 2200 students it should be pretty darn easy to get 14 wrestlers to fill your line up.


There it is. Try not to puke in your trash can. Just 30 of 215 teams or just 14%.

The KWCA can forget dual state, lets just promote getting full rosters!!

AMEN! I don't like dual state anyway (I've watched it up here and am unimpressed). I like how states like Virginia and The Northeast have Grand States or Grand Regional (like New Englands). But yeah. Iola in 4a has a crappy athletic director so that is their problem, yet with only 4 wrestlers in their room they sit 7th out of 15 in the regional!

I remember when kids didn't make it to day 2 of regionals (that was normal because we had full brackets). I lost 1st round my senior year and wrestled 4 matches on the backside to make the conso semis!

Some colleges though are just as bad if not worse. Arkansas Baptist in the Central District has had I believe 3 at the most in any 1 year at the National Qualifier.

A scary testament to the state of wrestling in Kansas. All the colleges in this state and not a single D1 college wrestling program, almost no freestyle or Greco wrestling to speak of, etc. It's unfortunate.

I agree this is a problem - PLEASE remember the words attrition rate for ALL wrestlers.

Please sit down before you read these next four lines!!

Out of 92 321A teams only THREE, yes 3, have a full roster of 14.
59 4A teams... just 7 muster a full line up for their regional.
5A...a meager 9 of 32 and all of these schools have more than 700 students!!
6A a little better 11 of 32 but if you have 1200 to 2200 students it should be pretty darn easy to get 14 wrestlers to fill your line up.


There it is. Try not to puke in your trash can. Just 30 of 215 teams or just 14%.

The KWCA can forget dual state, lets just promote getting full rosters!!
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

Dual State will not happen, but for other reasons. For one, KSHSAA will not add a second state event for a sport. Secondly, it is a pretty big expense for schools (travel, hotels, food, sub pay, bus drivers, etc). Nothing that is going to make budgets even harder to balance than they are now, will fly. And a third reason, it is more missed school time, which schools are not looking to add either, especially when we already have a state event.

It would be interesting to see how many high school students could even make the lower weight classes .... Most schools probably have very few. Why are 7th/8th graders not allowed to wrestle varsity, if they are good enough. Many less populated states to our north allow it........why doesn't Kansas?

Broken out by weight class
106 - 111
113 - 120
120 - 143
126 - 144
132 - 160
138 - 155
145 - 163
152 - 164
160 - 151
170 - 152
182 - 134
195 - 149
220 - 147
285 - 143

132 Most
106 Least

Out of a possible 215 wrestling programs.

I think the new style of tournaments have ruined this sport. In my day they were all 2 and out. This year I had a kid wrestle 9 matches in a 2 day tournament. That's great if you are the shark if you are the minnow you just lost 9 matches the first tournament of the season. So after 3 weeks of pool style tournaments that same kid is 2-23 headed into the break. As the minnow, 2-23 is very hard to swallow you have to be a certain type of kid to keep fighting. In my day that minnow would me 0-6 after 3 weeks. And they are worried the singlets have something to do with it. Good Luck Today!!!!

Good thought.

To me that would mean someone is making it too much about winning and not enough about the experience. We had a kid at SJA who lost his first 40 matches, AT LEAST, of his career (started as a FR). He went on to make the finals of state his senior year. Four years later he was a college graduate. Great achievements take great sacrifice and there isn't always an immediate reward. I would argue that the 0-23 kid is four times better now than the 0-6 kid of yesteryear. I understand millennials want instant gratification and there is some there it just has to be spun that way. There is a silver lining and it is called LEARNING, IMPROVING, and EXPERIENCE. The sport emulates life so much more than any other. With great sacrifice comes the opportunity for great achievement. Life is about opportunities and what each person chooses to make of their opportunities. As coaches and parents we have to cultivate an attitude and work ethic that prepares them for those moments when they have to "swim with the sharks!"

Wow...what makes you think that? We offer FS/GR instruction throughout the state. We have hosted a USA Regional for ten years running. We are, perennially, the lowest cost State taking a team to Fargo. We have taken at least one and many years two teams to: Schoolboy duals, Cadet Duals, Junior Duals and some years the CA World Greco Challenge. I am struggling to see how that can be considered "almost no"????? Please help me to understand.

What are the solutions? Several things are causing the
"State of Emergency". I will leave you with someone else's thoughts or post from a few years ago - his own 2 boys reasons along with other parental decisions and facts. I am going to go watch a few HS tournaments today and then weigh in a few kids in for tomorrows tournament. Hopefully other kids club coaches and their wrestlers will attend some of these tournaments today and next week at the 4 different State Tournaments.

Parent thoughts below:

this is going to be a long one.
bockman
Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 911 the decision for my 2 sons at this point has been made. i left it up to the both of them this year. unfortunately they have decided to pursue other things and not wrestle this season. i am hoping its just for this season and hopefully they may make the decision to come back later in the season. i just want to thank tons of people throughout the long journey. brady started wrestling back when he was 4 years old. drew started about the same age. the things they have learned and the things that i have learned makes it hard on me as a dad, coach and person. first off i want to thank one of the best guys i have ever met in the sport of wrestling. we go way back to our boys wrestling at 6 under state. after that season we talked in the summer and decided that our boys would be great practice partners. well after several state championships and national placings they had to square off this last year in the finals at kick off classic. whether you like him or hate him he has earned my respect. what he has done for my 2 sons i can never repay him enough. he didnt have to take my sons as he could have just taken his boys in his shed that sits in his back yard and worked on his boys only. what he has done for the sport of wrestling many people wont understand until he takes your son to that shed and whips him into shape. he has built a dynasty from day one to the present day. coaching from 8 kids to over 100 kids now and still making it work isnt an easy task. yes he has had many helpers along the way but the kansas young guns wouldnt be where they are today without Max Fisher and Terry Lange. many kids at the high school level wouldnt be where they are without those 2 guys either. im sure i will drop in and out of gyms over the course of the year in hopes that my sons change their minds. so if you see them you can always encourage them without asking me first. i will always make the journey to watch state wrestling at the high school level with or without my sons wrestling as i have since i graduated from high school. good luck to all of you and your sons. just remember its a marathon and not a sprint. just because they win all their matches at 6,8,10, 12 doesnt mean they are going to be state champs every year come high school. remember to hug them and tell them that you love them at night time as i did when they were younger but not so much in the past couple years. just a few things i have learned throughout the past years. dont use this talk forum to talk crap. if you have a problem with someone talk to them face to face in a positive manner. the talk forum only fuels the fire. beeson is actually a pretty good guy if you are able to sit down and talk to him. do not talk to him on the web forum lol. do not drink that stuff that lindsey drags around with him. that stuff will probably make you sick. the most important thing i have learned is listen to other coaches, and most importantly your own kids. dont make them do things they really dont want to do as they wont give 100 percent. guide your kids dont force them to do anything. last but not least is one thing i wasnt very good at. do not argue with the refs cause they are almost always right and very few times will they change a call. also take time and watch bob from salina coach a match. it will give you a good laugh. oh i almost forgot. take someone that doesnt know the sport of wrestling to a kids tournament and watch some of the crazy parents and coaches. thats all i got for now. thank you.
_________________________
Scott Bockover

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#231575 - 10/19/14 06:27 AM Re: this is going to be a long one. [Re: bockman]

Cokeley
Member

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 3837
Loc: Lawrence, KS I am just curious WHY they decided they didn't want to continue wrestling? Retention and sustainment to the high school level should be one of all of our club's goals.
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

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#231592 - Yesterday at 06:32 PM Re: this is going to be a long one. [Re: Cokeley]

bockman
Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 911 well since your the 2nd person that has asked me that in the past week i had to sit down and look at some of the reasons. with my son there are several reasons. one being finances. my wife lost her job 2 years ago and she had to start over. we make quite a bit less money now and with 5 kids we had to make some changes with each kid. i have 2 girls in high school and they now only play 2 sports each. with brady we had to sit down and ask him what he really likes. wrestling was at the bottom of that list. its not because he wasnt good at it but the long drag on of the season was much of the reason. to keep up with kids these days most kids have to wrestle 8-10 months and some wrestle all year. you do that for 8-10 years and it wears on you. in the past few years he told me his favorite part of the wrestling season was going to omaha and wrestling with a team of kids from all over the state. honestly in my opinion i think club sports is hurting all sports not just wrestling. i used to play in chanute rec league then at the end of the season we formed 2 all-star teams to play in a couple tournaments. that was for baseball. i didnt start tackle football until i was in 7th grade. now they start in 2nd grade. another reason he said was because he likes basketball better. its more fun to play and all his friends from his school play basketball and thats what he liked to do. is be with his friends. me as a dad coach probably wasnt the best thing for him. i pushed him and pushed him hard. i made tons of mistakes with him. as kids get older they sometimes have to make decisions. i honestly think with the emphasis on school work is making it hard for kids to play multiple sports come high school as well. brady struggles in keeping focus on his school work and i am not sure he will be able to succeed in 3 sports in high school. if i could go back and change anything about wrestling i would not make it competitive at a young age. i would start november first and be done at the end of january. then if he wanted to do more start freestyle wrestling. we need those kids to be at high school state so they see the reason why they are wrestling in the first place. i know not every one who reads this will agree but these are my thoughts on this. if my wife would not have ever put that stupid basketball goal in the driveway when my kids were young they would not have ever picked up a basketball lol. i dont think we can sit here and say there is one reason we are losing kids at the high school level. add all the reasons together would be more logical. the biggest reason in my opinion is the long season along with the toughness it takes to be a good wrestler. not many kids that are not good continue. there are a handful of stories but not the majority. kids that are good in several sports are more likely to continue with a sport that is easier and more fun to do. i think kansas overall needs to look at a shorter season and make it fun by doing more dual tournaments. i would like to hear other peoples thoughts that have had kids not continue as well.
_________________________
Scott Bockover

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#231596 - Today at 06:15 AM Re: this is going to be a long one. [Re: bockman]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 4236
Loc: Shawnee Kansas Every parent and coach should read this story. Your kids may come back to the sport. They may need to recharge their batteries. As a coach, parent, and sports participant - make no mistake I am competitive and know the feeling between a W vs L. But as a coach/parent now, I want to develop the student/athletes in the sport. Success is measured differently for each wrestler. When they are in elementary, middle school, HS, college, and/or the Olympic/International level - I want THEM to LIKE and be passionate about the sport. At all levels, every person is different, but when it is difficult and fun they will knock down their own walls and overcome obstacles. We as adults can guide them on the path with positive reinforcement as they learn whatever activity they are interested in.

If you want to get better at wrestling go to one of the Kansas freestyle & Greco training centers & go to Fargo. It is not expensive & the wrestlers have a blast. My boys are already talking about it.

Proud to see Brady qualify as a Freshman in a tough 170 bracket.[spoiler][/spoiler]
Pretty good wrestling all around. Damn fine final matches at several weights too at the Andover regional...some might see those same kids meet back up at the finals next week.

Yes, there are some great Greco and Freestyle things happening with the older kids - Cadet and Junior Duals, Fargo, etc., and I definitely don't mean to minimize the importance of those things because I think they are fantastic. I'm certainly not meaning to criticize what is in place or put anyone on the defensive. What I'm referring to is the lack of a real local competition season - small local clubs, practices and tourneys where young kids can get their feet wet and find a love for Olympic style wrestling without the expense of travel and the intimidation of walking into a regional training center as a novice. Competition that isn't necessarily on the level of Dual teams and Fargo for kids who aren't there yet because they don't know how to throw or, more importantly, be thrown. Maybe where their parents could learn a little bit along with them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard wrestlers or parents say they don't wrestle those styles because they just don't understand it. My opinion is that a solid foundation is where you start building. Top down works - until it doesn't. Go ahead. Bash away.

There no reason why 6&5 don't have full rosters. And the bigger 4a should be full too.It's more difficult with 321a. A lot of 321a kids play all three sports. And less students to pull from. We had a kid not wrestle Saturday because he had to work. That would never happen to my kids. So some Parents just don't want to put in the time this sport takes. That's it.

That's crazy that the young man couldn't wrestle because he had to work. Its not like he wasn't aware of when regionals were. Most employers I know of in my area let the kids off if they are competing in sports or school activities. Petty sure he could have gotten out of work if he really wanted to.

Couldn't agree more! If you have 700+ in your school, getting a starting roster of 14 should be easy.