Lastly, USAWKS does offer the Middle School Championships where you can test your medal against all the other middle school wrestlers in the state. It's not the same as USAWKS Folkstyle State, but it's something and it will give you a gauge of where you stand with other middle schoolers.

I hope this helps.

On the topic of congruence, yes the HS division spans four years in age; however I am opposed to its inclusion in the state series for this reason specifically and its redundancy. As to the 8U division, in my opinion it is the same as 10U and 12U in that it spans only 2 years. There IS a 6U age division, they however are forced to wrestle 8U in the state series as they are not formally included. Read the first post of this thread, it is there that I outline my preference in the alignment of the age groups by grade. My main problem with the 14U age group is the lack of competition throughout the year which may be leading to some of the decline in numbers we are seeing consistently in this age group. Yes in the state series that issue is covered up by the fact that the freshmen are dumped in then. Believe it or not some families are not able to do the significant amount of travelling required to maintain a competitive edge required to prepare for a state series that is incongruent competitively with the available opportunities within the state until the district tournament. Additionally the realignment of the age divisions as I propose in the first post of this thread brings the oldest 1/2 of the 6U division as it stands now into 8U making the debate to include 6U in the state series largely moot. You can then keep or discard the largely ignored HS division the way it is or change it into something that serves a purpose to grow the sport in the state which may be a return to the 16U division. I would bet back in the day there were alot of folks who fought that change, perhaps for good reason as it turns out. I would not simply want the freshmen excluded from the 14U division with the cutoff date as it is now because that would create a 1 year age division and that is not the goal. The goal is to increase the competitive opportunities over the entirety of the season IN THE STATE. Seems like that's the same goal folks give alot of lip service to out of one side of their mouth but then its the opposite out of the other side. The biggest mystery is why do high schoolers have 2 state tournaments and honestly I'm pretty sure that answer is $$

There is more money to be made from 6U at state than the current HS at state. Would have way more numbers and I promise you 6U parents buy more from booths than HS parents do. But I agree HS already has HS State no reason for two unless 90% of the placers signed up but that's not the case.

Fact...currantly and throughout the history of USAWKS there is no and there has never been mention of the 6U division in the USAWKS bylaws. We wrestle 6U in regular season as subset of 8U similar to novice or B brackets at other age divisions.

Point taken but in practice every tournament (with few exceptions) in the state runs a 6U division. Which, it bears mentioning, they might not be compelled to do as often, if the older half of that age group (the more skilled half) were included into a newly realigned 8U that was 1st and 2nd graders as opposed to 2nd and 3rd. (I would also guess that simply by including the older half of 6U you would make up the money lost by discontinuing the HS division)

I agree with Red....my son also (6th grader mind you) wrestled at that also and didn't complain when he wrestled 2 freshman. He lost all his matches but he wrestled, wrestled hard and gave a good run. It only made him want to work harder to get better. I believe anyone can be beat any time, any day, any where by anyone. But like I mentioned, if a freshman, qualified for HS state, he should have to stay in the HS division through the state series and not be allowed to wrestle the 14&U division. Not sure why there is a HS division in the Kids Folkstyle Series, except as a 2nd chance to get a state title, but outside my pay grade....lol

let me ask you this if the state doesn't sanction 6U, who keeps the proceeds from 6U state? hmmmmm

Proceeds from that tourney go to help subsidize team/travel expenses for six teams of the 8U subset trip to Heartland Duals.

Just to be perfectly clear, this is not an issue about high school freshman wrestling 14U and some kind of competitive imbalance that that may cause. It is about the absence of competition for an entire season because half the age group is in high school and barred by KSHSAA from competing in non-HS events (which is another topic). Changing the age group cutoff so it is 7th and 8th graders instead of 8th and 9th is the solution to that problem

well they can't go to just the 8U subset the Heartland Duals are 1st through 6th elementary division and 6th through 8th middle school. By 8u subset do you mean the elementary portion

Yes....it is ran as a combined tourney with the Elementary Dual Qualifier and proceeds go to support the dual teams. I think you are loosing track of what should be at the heart of our mission....wrestling skill development. Lessons can be learned from the structure of both 8U and 14U breakouts. In the 8U division the subset of 6U are first and second year wrestlers. Some develop faster than others but mostly first and second year wrestlers are novice wrestlers who do not need to be in a championship series of tournaments...they will have 7-8 years prior to High School to experience the Championship Series; retention demands we focus on skill development, fun and fundamentals when coaching the 6U subset. Our 8th grade athletes benefit from wrestling Freshman the March before they enter High School and they are in no way harmed. It gets them ready for the future. Our Freshman in the 14U also benefit from coming off an often grinding HS season and wrestle club athletes closer to their own age and skill development than the athletes the wrestled in the HS season. A chance to regroup and hone their budding skills. It's not about how much money each age group generates or how those funds are allocated. It's not about fairness for any single athlete. It's about the age appropriate opportunities we offer ALL our age divisions to improve their skills.

I agree with what you are saying there, even in regards to the 8th grade wrestler in March, however, there is a significant dearth or competition the other 3 months of the season for the 14U wrestler as it is currently structured, so much so that in the balance of things it seems they are significantly shortchanged for 3 months for 2-3 weeks of healthy competition at the end. You don't really lose anything on the 8U end but you gain quite a bit on the 14U end with an adjustment

Maybe the ole 16U division wasn't such a bad idea after all? It also seems much more in line with what the mission of the kids program is/should be as you stated. The HS division, as I've said before, seems to have never achieved it's promise as it was originally pitched. Nor does it seem it ever will. Scrapping HS and reinstating a 16U (freshman/sophomore) division might be just the ticket?

Mark, Absolutely Perfect Response. Exactly the game plan that needs to be implemented to continue to grow Kansas Wrestling.

BB6, did you get your changes written up and submitted?

Although, I do not personally agree with having a High School Division as well, I do not see the State Body ever voting it out. It is a last hoorah for a lot of High School kids to wrestle. This isn't an executive decision, it is a State Body decision.

But you still have to address the 14U issue, it's a one year age group until the state series. If "It's about the age appropriate opportunities we offer ALL our age divisions to improve their skills" we are not doing that for 14U. Arguably the most "at risk" age group. KSHSAA is in charge of HS let's stay out of their jurisdiction so we can focus on developing the high school wrestlers of tomorrow. (Which isn't to say we couldn't dip our toes in with a 16U (freshman/sophomore) division If you like call it a JV division and keep the focus on "improvement of skills"

Nothing to address. Honestly, you are the only one with a problem with 14U.

I have not posted on here for several years, my son is 24 now and has not wrestled for a while. Bigblue I understand your upset because your son lost to McDonald who went to high school state. So what he lost to a better kid his same age get over it. 8TH graders have much more opportunity to seek out the best practices.They can go anywhere they want to get competition but a lot of parents are lazy and would rather complain about the system not being fair.
Tom Baughman

Ok, so 2 days and 6 pages later I guess I'll respond....

1. Brady is 14. His DOB is 4/02 (he will still be 14 after the State series)
2. Brady qualified for 4A HS State (won a couple matches, pleasant suprise!)
3. Brady chose 14u as a last chance to wrestle kids his own age in the State series)
4. 14u was also much more competitive than the HS division in our District . (Since entries were shown for some time, we also saw 14u kids move up to HS later in the week and qualify easily
5. We wrestled Dist 2 last year as 8th grade, like you are upset about, those Wichita schools didn't finish Middle School season until right before the state series! WE HAD TO WORRY ABOUT MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS AND FRESHMAN! IN THE SAME WEEK!
6. A Jan 1 change wouldn't get rid of the Freshman that are 14!!

I'll stop there for now.

Matt McDonald

1 - I'm sorry Mr. McDonald feels like he has to come to his son's defense. He's done nothing wrong! Good luck at State and I hope to see your son on the podium.
2 - I'm just sick that Mr. Bluel is crying so hard (although not surprised). I wish some parents would emulate what 'most' of us try to teach our kids - that's to win like you lose and lose like you win.
3 - What are you going to do next year when your son is a freshman and 14 wrestling a senior who is 18 years old? Will you complain his mom and dad should've started him in kindergarten maybe a year earlier so a legal adult wasn't wrestling your baby?
4 - I now know why D1 get such a bad rap! Please know there are many, MANY normal parents that (as Beeson has stated over and over on this forum) are preparing their child for the path and do NOT want the path prepared for our child. The world is a cold cruel place!! Life lessons of 'life's not fair' are best learned early.