I have hated this issue for years! We are the ONLY state that allows this. I think it is a great opportunity for 8th graders but I would NEVER let any of my sons wrestle 14U after they have had a season of HS. It was our personal choice to seek opportunities to GET BETTER! A wrestler that has just practiced five days a week for more than three months and wrestled kids that could be four or even five years older has, to me, had significant training advantage, regardless of how awful you might feel your HS coach and schedule are. If EVERYONE approached wrestling as a means of challenging yourself to get better this would not be an issue. However, I respect those who leverage the within the rules option to choose their own path. It just isn't a path I nor any coach who is seeking to develop state champions would choose.

THE NUMBER ONE CHALLENGE WE, AS A WRESTLING COMMUNITY, ARE CONFRONTED WITH IS MISPLACED PRIORITIES. THE NUMBER ONE MISSION OF OUR BOARD, CLUBS, CLUB DIRECTORS, PARENTS, AND COACHES SHOULD BE TO DEVELOP A PASSION FOR WRESTLING AND FIND WAYS TO SUSTAIN THIS PASSION! WINNING IS A BY PRODUCT OF THIS AND IT IS A DANGEROUS FORMULA TO HAVE OUR ATHLETES FALL IN LOVE WITH WINNING ONLY. IT IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER TO KEEP LOOKING FOR WAYS TO WIN INSTEAD OF OPPORTUNITIES TO LEARN AND IMPROVE. TEACHING YOUR WRESTLERS THAT WINNING IS THE ONLY THING IS LIKE HANDING THEM A LOADED GUN AND TELLING THEM TO PULL THE TRIGGER AND EXPECT NO HARM. THERE IS SO MUCH TO ENJOY ABOUT THE GREATEST SPORT ON EARTH. THE SOCIAL ASPECT, THE TRAVEL, THE QUALITY TIME WITH YOUR KIDS, THE CHALLENGE, THE LEARNING, THE EXPERIENCE, ETC. DO NOT KEEP LOOKING FOR EXCUSES OR THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE. LIFE IS ABOUT COPING WITH BEING UNCOMFORTABLE, IT ISN'T ABOUT LOOKING FOR FAIRNESS!!

Holy Cow I don't know how many times I have to say it has nothing to do with my son's individual performance and only secondarily does it have to do with the freshman being allowed to enter the state series in 14U. THE PRIMARY PROBLEM WITH THE 14U AGE GROUP IS IT IS A 1 YEAR AGE GROUP UNTIL THE STATE SERIES. READ THE FIRST POST OF THE THREAD! The problem is an age cutoff that creates that situation, I don't care what you change the cutoff to so long and there are 2 grade levels of kids able to participate in said age group over the course of the season. The insinuation that this thread had anything to do with a single tournament let alone one match is more than ridiculous. It has to do with having to travel all season to national tournaments out of state to consistently get the kind of competition that makes you better. We are lucky enough to manage that, there are many who are not for various reasons, and those kids are being shortchanged the year before high school because of the KS age cutoff. Mr McDonald your son wrestled a great tournament and deserved his win against Ben, hopefully we will get a chance to try again before next weekend's over. Tom Baughman I don't know you and you don't know me. How it is you figure I'm upset, thrilled, puzzled or anything else about anything is beyond me. I never mentioned anyone by name in this thread, that was intentional on my part--don't put words in my mouth. From the first page of this thread my opinion in this matter has been mischaracterized as some kind of pity party I'm having because my kid didn't have the kind of success I wanted him to a district. Nope, not the case. I'm good with me and mine

Every word of this! Cokeley I take back anything bad I ever said about you (I don't think there was anything, but you get my drift) This is everything I'm trying to say in 10x less words, Thank you for the clarity, good to know that I'm apparently NOT the only one who thinks there's a problem with the 14U situation

As stated be for. 8th graders have the advantage. They can seek out better training ,more matches,clinics and travel out of state any time they would like.


As for HS if the program sucks you are stuck. Bad rooms do not make good wrestlers.If you do not train good ,no matter whom you wrestle you will not get better. Kids wrestle like they train.All though kids club my son was pushed.In HS coaches dodge good kids,go to easy match ups.say they can not push the kids for school rules.

Charles Bradford

Big wait till next year :}

I guess we're lucky we're going to be in a great room

BB6 I'm curious why if it has nothing to do with your son, is this the first time that you've brought it up? As long as you've been in wrestling why haven't you drawn up a proposal to make changes?

Don't you guys have a 14U that qualified for HS state this year for Olathe South? If it is the kid that matches up to the track profile, then did you try to talk him into wrestling the HS division?

As I'm sure you've experienced to some degree, the wrestling experience tends to be compartmentalized, age groups, weights, kids, high school, college, etc. I frankly didn't realize the pervasiveness of the virtual desert of competition there was at 14U over the course of the season until I went through it personally with my kid. Likewise as to the OS 14U wrestler I have had little contact with him as I'm personally in the practice room only 1 day a week and his time there has been short, believe me this year will change my discussions for the future athletes I have contact with. I think the way I've managed my son's career speaks for itself. As to this year it's a live a learn situation. But I do know this, my actions or inaction doesn't change the facts of the situation and it's so easy to fix. Bottom line 14U is a 1 year age division until the state series and that alone is enough to want the situation to change for the future of KS wrestling

Having dealt with the small brackets over the course of a season for a few years now, I think getting all the Middle School programs on the same schedule would help this problem. You have most of District 2 wrestling ms Jan through to the week before subs.
Last year my daughter was at the bottom of 14u and an 8th grader. She pretty much wrestled the same 3 kids for 3 months at tournaments.
Not only would this help the club kids, i think it would make MS more competitive

The middle school programs are a thread unto themselves, where we are at they are for all intents and purposes nonexistent which just compounds the issue

My son had never stepped foot on a wrestling mat until his Freshman year in high school. He also happened to fall into the "14U" category for Kids Club after his Freshman high school season. From my perspective, a lot goes into an opponents experience/mat time too! Not EVERY Freshman wrestler has been wrestling since they were 4 years old or even middle school. Not every Freshman is more developed physically than those in middle school. Being a Freshman doesn't automatically classify someone as being stronger, etc. Some Freshman decide to "try" a sport, fall in love with it and want to continue to improve, learn, and develop as a wrestler.

Maybe my sons situation is not the "norm", but I don't think it's fair to assume or generalize that he would have had an "advantage" on everyone in a "14U" class just because he was a Freshman. Nor do I think him wrestling "14U" as a Freshman was a joke. He got mat time, he went up against kids with WAY more experience than him that were in middle school (he won some/he lost some), he did not get completely discouraged by getting TF 5 seconds into a match by high school upperclassman every match with even MORE experience, maturity and strength than him and so, he didn't quit this sport we (as a wrestling community) say we are continuing to try to grow.

He is now a Senior and with only 4 seasons of wrestling, has qualified 2x for 6A State and placed this year at 6A State (in probably one of the toughest 6A weight classes). Currently, he is pursuing college scholarships for wrestling. Have I mentioned that he absolutely loves this sport? Go ask him who he is, he will tell you.."I'm a wrestler". Wrestling definitely defines him and he it! I don't know the outcome would be the same, if the "rule" were different. Thankfully, for him...we don't have to know.

Just thought I'd share a bit into my son's story and maybe put a little different perspective on the subject...

Sonja
"Mama Black"

With every post like the one above I regret my title of this thread more HOWEVER it bears repeating: the competitive disparity between the 8th graders and (most) freshmen is an issue (as Mr Cokeley so eloquently explained) but not the main issue, to me. The main issue is that 14U, an "at risk" age group for the decline in numbers in our sport, has only 1 grade level of competition ALL SEASON until the freshmen get dumped into the mix and that in order to do the things it takes to be competitive, to grow in the sport, you must attend bigger largely out of state tournaments throughout the season which some (most?) competitors families are not able to do for various reasons. Which seems a shame because a simple adjustment in the age cutoff would fix it. NOTICE: if other powers that be have their way in this state, the date of kids state may necessitate a change in the cutoff date

Congratulations to your son Mama Black and thank you for this post. Like Mr. Baughman, I recently returned to the forum after my son graduated HS - 2010 (I now have a grandson wrestling, which is bringing me back). Mr. Cokeley is spot on about the rule benefitting 8th graders more than it does HS wrestlers (in most situations). Many 8th graders used to use this opportunity as a measuring stick to see where they are, when comparing to the next level. Having said that I don't think this is one of the main issues we should be looking at to grow the sport.

It was extremely surprising to me to see the drop in overall wrestlers in our State. I am extremely impressed with the elementary state idea and the six teams that will represent our State. This concept with focus on Olympic styles might be the key to growing the sport. Also, if there was a way to have a few weekends for quality in-state team duals at the elementary school age this might promote the sport even more. Maybe start at a regional level (invitational) and develop a State competition...matches during HS duals etc. Just a thought.

Kyle Snyder anyone want to take on that? World and Olympic champion competing in the NCAA tournament? 63 pounds under Max weight? If your eligible your eligible.

We cannot possibly apply an extreme exception to the general wrestling populous. Kyle is an total anomaly in a good way.