When I heard the hockey walls were not going to be in place, I thought it was going to make things less congested on the floor, as I'm sure the tourney committee thought as well. But it was worse than I've ever seen it. After the first day, I just kind of made mental notes of people down on the floor that I kept seeing on the floor, but never saw coaching........ I know we can't police this, but having people on the floor, who are not coaching, or wrestling, is making it tough to move around down there. What is strange is that a lot of these people don't realize how good the view is from the seating above. There are no obstructions to your view if you get in the stands.... yet they stand behind the tables, having to move around to peak around people walking in front of them, which in turn crowds the walk way, and gives zero room for on deck wrestlers to do any sort of warm up.

I think I had heard that there has been some talk about putting some mats in exhibition hall, and I think it is time to do it. I don't know how other districts do it, but our district tourney was wrestled on full mats, and we come to state, and most of our kids wrestled (and of course their opponents did also) on half mats. So many out of bounds calls this weekend..... Many matches decided by near takedowns, escapes, etc. on the edge of the mat. Our kids were the beneficiaries of some of these calls, and also on the bad end of some out of bounds calls.

My suggestion is to, for everything except the finals, move the HS and/or 14u division to the exhibition hall on 4 mats, and leave 10 mats in the arena. This would allow everyone to wrestle on a full mat. Some temporary bleacher seating would of course have to be moved in, and we may have to lose the bouncy house....... And for the 1st and 3rd place matches, we still wrestle on 10 mats in the arena for the grand finale. I've been to plenty of events where tourneys are in an exhibition type facility, and if you put seating on 3 sides, and table on one side, it is a really good, close to the action viewing experience. I realize that people will have to move between exhibition hall and the arena to watch matches, but it would sure be less congested in the main arena, both on the floor, and in the stands. No doubt the Expocenter is a great atmosphere, but I think kids should wrestle on full mats at state.

PS: When folks start chiming in on adding 6u state, no problem, we do 6 mats instead of 4 in exhibition hall. By adding 6u state, we would be able to combine the Elementary and Middle school state tourneys to the same day, and most likely get numbers up for those tourneys. Especially middle school state, where I believe numbers were way down. Of course adding 6u state to our tourney puts a burden of the district tourneys adding 6u to their workload......

Mark Stanley or Daniel Reling can probably speak to the amount of space in exhibition hall that might be available (or not available), and also speak to problems that I am not thinking about by having a "two gym" tourney.

Also, on another note, what is the dates for state next year? It is moved up a few weeks, and I know I have the email with the dates somewhere, but posting it here will help some others like me who have spaced it off already.

Funny you mentioned this as I thought the same thing about the "increased" number of coaches this year that I have not seen in years past. I was standing by a dude waiting for our match. The guy had a coaching band on and as a fellow adult member of their team walked by he tapped the guy on the shoulder and said their kid needed a coach and was number xxx. Just another example of everyone wanting to be on the floor but not coach.

I can understand why they would want to be down there, so they can tell their friends that they brushed up against legends like Bobby Stein. I've heard of people bumping into him on purpose, then going home and not washing the shirt they were wearing, and framing it, just to have some of Bobby's sweat, or better yet, a piece of peach fuzz from the back of his head, on it. Who knows what that framed shirt will be worth one day.........

BTW, I am selling a ballpoint pen, that has his fingerprints on it. I am also not ruling out that there could be some of his snot on it, I saw him picking his nose earlier that day. Apparently he is getting forgetful in his old age, and had to borrow my pen to write down some match numbers.......he just made me rich.

As usual nice post by Doug. I know our people who have worked state tables ever since I started were glad the risers weren't used. I know one of the thoughts were to get the tableworkers away from the crowd but it never failed to have some think it was a place for a better view while yelling from right behind them (sometimes right in their ears) for their team members, or the wrestlers who thought it would be a better place to warm up. Jamy was also right on his post. I noticed the same thing, as well as several coaches in the corner with what seemed like most of their participants in the corner as well. Some of that should be patrolled by the clubs themselves. Great job as always by Mark Stanley and the rest of the tournament crew. (Too many to try to mention.!)

Talked to a few guys about the congestion this weekend. We talked about a couple mats in exhibition hall to warm up on. Would help clear some of the congestion behind the railing on the floor. This year there was kids and coaches standing for several matches right behind the railing. BTW...in my opinion it is a horrible place for a wrestler to warm up for a match because there is no room.

I sent this same topic to the board two years ago. I was told then that there was not any congestion around the mats. But this response was from the ones that walk up and down the center of the mats or sit at the head table.

Each year it has the congestion has been worse. Many of the parents that never step on the mat to coach are standing mat side trying to get as close as they can to the action.

Several years ago coaches had to have the bronze and a floor pass to be on the floor. Might be time to bring it back.

I think that is the same rule now. I had to show bronze card and USA coaches card, and drivers license to get my armband.

Now that I said that, maybe I showed them my bronze for no reason. Do we let anyone with a USA coaches card get an armband, whether they have a bronze card or not?

With the online bronze certification, must be a ton of people getting bronze cards......

I am not a fan of the online bronze card. I think we have too many coaches now. It is way to easy to get a bronze card.

I personally think we should limit the amount of parents that get a bronze card and a coaches card. Many of these parents only Coach thier kid. Many of these clubs have close to the same amount of coaches on the floor as they do wrestlers.

There is plenty of room in the bleachers for all the parents to sit. Clubs need to regulate this better.

I agree with the whole warming up mat side is a bad idea. We should have a mat or two available to warm up. But who babysits it. Will it be an accident zone. Need to figure out a way to get parents off the floor then their will be room to warm up

I would love to know how many coaches were allowed on the floor this year or how many bands were giving out for floor access.

Ummm how much for said pen? Asking for a friend

Also know a friend in search of a deodorant bar used by Dal Eck, Steve Herman, or Brett Means

I am glad someone started this thread as I want to praise Mark Stanley and team for a great job. I use to come to the State Tourney a few years back with my son and after some years off, have been back 2 of the last 3 years with my grandson and I want to just state how well ran this tournament was.

The best change from past years was how nice the arena staff were. I remember a time when they were hateful, mean people. I remember when they did everything but make a kid strip to ensure they weren't trying to smuggle in a candy bar. In fact, I use to never buy any concessions there as a matter of principle. This year I spent way too much on those concessions!!

There was an issue with congestion, but I don't think a rule limiting floor passes is the way to go. It just creates hurt feelings and lots of animosity. A lot of the congestion has to do with the fact the tournament is about as big as it can get. I like the idea of moving the HS division. Maybe there should just be an open HS tournament on Friday, but that is another discussion. Another idea might be to move some of the mat assignments. Most of the congestion appeared to be by the 10U mats. This makes sense, the mats are small, the matches go fast, so lots of kids are on deck with their coaches. I don't believe any limiting of floor passes should be done until other options are tired. Also, remember the stands are crowed too!!! This is a BIG EVENT. Given its size, the congestion was livable.

I do like the idea of warm-up mats in the exhibition hall. This might get some of the kids off the floor and is a good idea regardless. It would also be nice if there were more table up out there. The arena is packed on the 1st day, people might enjoy a relaxing place to sit. I think the hospitality area is great, it was a relaxing place to sit between matches and my wife and daughter were not allowed in. Maybe it could be made more enticing to the coaches.

Moreover, I don't like the kids warming up on the mats during the introduction of the finalists. Looked bad. The mats should be clear during this time. These kids earned that.

Finally, I remember coming when Leann Grater and Ned Price ran the tournament. Its nice to see years later, their legacy and whoever might of been before them, is still a success!

Disclaimer ** I’m speaking as a club director and just somebody that helps out at some tournaments. I do not have a voice on the board and do not speak for them.

I agree there is way too many people on the floor at times and as one of “those people” that walk up and down the center of the mats I can recognize that. It’s really hard as a club director to enforce who from my team gets down there or attempt to limit it. I know we have parents that have taken the bronze and get a coach’s card for the sole purpose of coaching their kid only, taking pictures or just hang out on the floor. Yes, we ask them to help the process out and stay out of the way but if they meet the criteria to get on the floor it’s hard to tell them to get out.

We are fortunate to have such a large number of participants and with that will come some issues. Some can probable be addressed others may just be part of the process.

Another issue that adds to the congestion is the number of wrestlers or younger spectators hanging out on the floor. Do the kids really need to be down there when they are not wrestling or up for 30 matches? I would love our kids to be able to be mat side and cheer their teammates on but with the number of mats we require there just isn’t room for it. There are also a handful of teams that constantly have kids running down the middle of the mats. Coach’s pay attention for the most part but kids will not look were the wrestling is and end up jumping over an official or kids heading out of bounds. They know where their mat is and when they are up, there is no reason for kids to be running through mats. This is the part that I feel coaches and club directors could impact.

Not sure how I feel about mats in Ex hall. Vendor’s, parade, pictures and the open room that it provides is a nice added feature I think. As mentioned if there were mats out there for warmup who would supervise them? Would you? Would you do it in a fair, honest and consistent method? That would have to be a club/district responsible for that and not sure how that call for volunteers would go. Weigh in, mat cleaning, table workers and other duties are already divided by district. Having matches out there could be a bit messy for coaches, trying to get from mat to mat in the Expo can be a challenge getting through the tunnel could be also. That would virtually eliminate any area in the building for teams and families to spread out and get away from the bleachers.

As a club director I wouldn’t be opposed to providing the state tournament committee a list of my coaches that meet the coaching requirements AND we approve to be on the floor. This could help get more parents motivated to help the team with other wrestlers versus just their kid and it would keep the congestion down as we wouldn’t list everyone with a bronze. Some might get hurt feelings but it is what it is. We prepare the kids for the next level, maybe we should prepare the parents for the next level.

Again, just my personal thoughts. I would recommend to anyone who has possible solutions to the issues to submit them to Mark, Matt or Mike. I haven’t always agreed with their decisions but I can say they have always openly listened to what is said.

Daniel

They, at least use to, have a warm up mat at Fargo and supervision is not a problem. Who supervises the regular warm ups?? They had one for a few years, was there a problem or did other stuff take its place?? Just some questions.

Yeah it could work without a problem, I just have a bit of concern about the amount of kids that run unattended all day and things I see them do. If we could restrict it to just competitors and coaches it would probably work out but that could be a big task given the previous issues mentioned on this thread.

I too thought there was way too many people out on the mats. I think this could be policed in some way. My other issue and issue with many people that were in the stands is coaches not taking a knee. Dont get me wrong. You coaches are awesome! I appreciate what you do for the kids. Most of you do kneel. But...there are a few teams that have coaches that will not kneel and have 3 or 4 in the corner. I had several matches of both my son, and his teammates that i missed most of the match because of 3-4 coaches standing in view. After one of the matches, i walked down to the end of the stands, and had someone get their attention. I asked them to please get down so we could see. They told me they didnt have to because they are "coaching" I told them it didnt matter, they still needed to kneel. Needless to say, they didnt give a crap what I thought. Often there were also many times officials would gather 3-4 in a group and stand between the mats, and you couldn't see the other side. Its not so bad when they are spread out, but when they are grouped, you just cant see anything. We as parents, grandparents, etc. are there to watch and cheer on our kids. We stay in the stands like we are suppose to, but can't even watch the matches. I know it was announced often, but if they dont listen, someone needs to enforce it. Please. Pease, make them sit, or make them leave.
Even during the finals matches towards the end there were many spectators screaming across the arena for people to sit.
My husband is a coach, so i am not trying to talk bad of any of you. Like i said, i did see LOTS of others kneeling, its just that some bad apples stand out. My husband always takes a knee. I'm sure he has heard me complain so much that he just knows. =)
I once asked a coach at a different tournament to kneel because he was standing in front of our entire section and no one could see. He said "move then if you cant see" Seriously?
State is huge, emotionally, and its what we all work towards all year long. This is just one more way to make it more enjoyable for everyone.

thanks for listening.

I can address the question about who all is allowed on the floor. Kathy Juby and I spent Friday evening and Saturday morning checking out coaches bands. Only those coaches who had current USAW coaching cards, bronze cards, and photo IDs were given bands. Most coaches were ready to show their credentials, but some were unprepared. Kathy and I had a printed list of all certified coaches from the 2017-18 season, plus we had access to the USAW Membership database.

We did distribute quite a few wristbands, but the only coaches who received them were certified and had appropriate credentials. However, I do know that there were many coaches matside without bands. I'm not sure who was policing the coaches that were actually matside.

While distributing bands, Kathy and I did have to turn away several coaches. There were some who claimed they'd been coaching all season without having their bronze cards and were pretty upset that we wouldn't give them bands. The fact of the matter is that the state board of directors has made it very clear that all coaches need to be bronze certified, and it's the clubs' responsibility to make sure their coaches are properly certified. I'd say that 99% of coaches are aware of this, but there are those who choose to ignore the requirements.

This being my first year working with USAWKS, I think it went pretty smoothly. Moving forward, we'll continue to get info out to clubs about the coaching requirements, and although I'm sure there will be some coaches who legitimately fall through the cracks and aren't aware of the requirements, we will do our best to make sure that the folks on the arena and gym floors are the ones who need to be there.

I'll continue to push for the in-person bronze clinics instead of the online ones. Yes, it may be inconvenient to give up an entire Sunday to travel to the location, sit through a 6+ hour clinic, and then drive home, but Randy Hinderliter makes a great point when he introduces his bronze clinics. Does having a drivers licence make you a better driver? Does simply having a piece of paper or a card saying that you're certified, essentially checking off a requirement, really mean that you are a better coach? Randy's goal during his time as director of coaches development, and I continue to make this my goal as I take over his position, is to provide an opportunity for the coaches in attendance to truly become better coaches. We interact with the coaches, we share personal stories, we ask for feedback, and we make a person-to-person connection with everyone there. I'm an educator every day of the week, every week of the year -- a teacher in the classroom, a coach in the practice room, and a father at home. As long as I have the opportunity to work with developing our state's coaches, I will do my best to make it something that will help them become better coaches. You just don't get that guarantee with the online courses, and I wish USAW understood that dilemma.

That all being said, I was pretty happy with the experience of state this year. It was great meeting all the coaches I'd been corresponding with about their coaches certifications and also seeing all the coaches who'd been at bronze clinics this year. The state committee did a great job with the tournament this year. Thanks for all your hard work!

I will let the market set the price, start the bidding. And I don't think any of those three wears deodorant

Sorry Daniel, as active as you are up there, I just assumed you were part of the Tourney committee. The far NE or NW corner of that exhibition hall I think would work for 4 mats for HS division. 464 matches minus the 32 matches for the 1st and 3rd place match in 16 weight classes is 432 matches in preliminary rounds. divided by 4 mats is 108 matches over two days. 14u would be 23 weights times 29 matches, minus 46 1st and 3rd matches, or a total of 621 matches, or 155 over two days. Either group would work over there in my opinion. It would be easier for coaches to move between rooms if they were both less crowded.
Good tourney, no doubt, just trying to come up with a way to make it better.

One simple step that could be taken is to put two chairs in each corner. At least then as an official I could ask the coaches to please sit in the chair. And maybe the presence of chairs would limit the number of people on the mat. It is frustrating but almost impossible to control. You would never get anything accomplished but clearing mats. With that said I was impressed with the attitudes of the HS kids that wrestled and their aggressiveness the majority of the matches. The majority of the coaches were also awesome to work with. I really enjoyed officiating last weekend.

We used to have a limit on the number of floor passes each club received, based on the number of qualifiers. Although these floor passes were limited, we still had heavy congestion on the floor. After lots of complaints, and more than a little cheating, our state decided to allow all qualified coaches (current membership and bronze certified) to receive floor access.

The initial reaction to this change was nearly all positive. The fighting and begging for floor passes came to an end and the congestion didn't seem that much worse. I make it a point each year to walk several times around the outside and really don't think it has gotten worse; however, that just means it has remained badly congested.

This wasn't intended to defend the status quo or argue for change, just to highlight that there were problems with both systems. Based on the great amount of relief I heard after we dropped floor passes I would be cautious about heading back down that path. Maybe someone can come up with a better system than what we had before to deal with the crowds on the floor?

Old fart that I am, if there was a chair there, I would sit in it!! it is easier on my bones to stand than it is to squat or kneel.........