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Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Jason Puderbaugh] #250406 04/09/18 01:16 PM
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Shane Koranda Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jason Puderbaugh
Lots of good points in this discussion thread. Just one other good idea is getting our youth competitions more excited and family/fan friendly with creating a season dual schedule between clubs or a creating youth leagues and having a dual schedule between all of the clubs in your league. Got to sell wrestling to the families in the communities and once its sold to them, they will get their kids involved in the sport and become fans of the sport. Why do more people go to watch basketball and football games, because they have scheduled times that people show up on Friday nights and watch the games. If club directors could get together and establish club dual schedules then use the schools to funnel out the season club dual schedules to all of the families to where it becomes the norm to want to make it out to watch little Jonny's dual just like they do little Jonny's soccer, football and basketball games then we would be on the right track. Fact is wrestling is a tough sport for the kids but even tougher for the parents who have to spend their entire Saturdays/Sundays sitting all day to watch a total of 9 - 12 minutes of wrestling at best over an 8-10 hour day in the bleachers of a gym. Yes, split sessions help that but not for families who have siblings/multiple kid wrestling in both sessions and volunteer youth coaches. You still have tournaments on the schedule of course, but atleast then our sport can reach out into the community to more then just the die hards. Then over time this will funnel into the HS's where more people in the community will want to come to watch HS duals as well because they are familiar with the excitement from the youth program duals.


I've officiated HS Varsity Duals at school such as Rose Hill, Buhler, Andover and Andover Central where they'll have their Thursday night HS Varsity duals divided up into sections and intersperse youth matches right in the middle of things! Talk about an awesome environment for those kids and families! I know it gives me goosebumps when those little guys are hammering it out in a packed gym and it's louder than all get out!


Shane Koranda
Towanda, Ks.
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Shane Koranda] #250410 04/09/18 06:10 PM
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smokeycabin Offline OP
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ABOUT

The United States Olympic Committee, in partnership with the National Governing Bodies, created The American Development Model in 2014 to help Americans realize their full athletic potential and utilize sport as a path toward an active and healthy lifestyle.

The model utilizes long-term athlete development concepts to promote sustained physical activity, participation in sport, and Olympic and Paralympic success. These concepts have been tailored to create a framework for developing American youth through sport.

The American Development Model is comprised of four key elements:

Statement
Visual Model
NGB Programming
Resources
The ultimate goal is to create positive experiences for American athletes at every level. By using the American Development Model, clubs, coaches and parents can help maximize potential for future elite athletes, and improve the health and well-being for future generations in the United States.

ADM STATEMENT

The United States Olympic Committee and its National Governing Bodies embrace the athlete development principles that allow American youth to utilize sport as a path toward an active and healthy lifestyle, and create opportunities for athletes to maximize their full potential. These five key principles include:

Universal access to create opportunity for all athletes
Developmentally appropriate activities that emphasize motor and foundational skills
Multi-sport participation
Fun, engaging and progressively challenging atmosphere
Quality coaching at all age levels
By creating early positive experiences for all athletes, the American Development Model will keep more children engaged in sport longer with four outcomes:

Grow both the general athlete population and the pool of elite athletes from which future U.S. Olympians and Paralympians are selected
Develop fundamental skills that transfer between sports
Provide an appropriate avenue to fulfill an individual's athletic potential
Create a generation that loves sport and physical activity, and transfers that passion to the next generation

FAQ

Q. What is the purpose of the American Development Model?
A. The purpose of the American Development Model is to illustrate the stages of development that athletes experience in youth sport. The five stages support the key factors that are outlined in the American Development Statement.

Q. Who is the target audience of the American Development Model?
A. The American Development Model is designed to target adults who typically determine sport opportunities for young athletes, including coaches, administrators and parents. The physical, emotional and mental landscape of each stage should enhance the overall development and positive experience for each athlete.

Q. How should the American Development Model be utilized?
A. The American Development Model is a visual concept designed to help guide consumers and National Governing Bodies toward building and delivering programs that are focused on the individual athlete. The visual model illustrates age-appropriate expectations and concepts for each stage of development.



KEY PRINCIPLES

The ADM suggests that quality sport experiences should incorporate five key principles, which in turn, will help keep more Americans engaged in sport with four clear outcomes.
KEY OUTCOMES

By creating early positive experiences for all athletes, the American Development Model will help keep more children engaged in sport longer with four clear outcomes.

STAGES

The ADM is comprised of five stages designed to create a healthy sport experience and support an athlete’s advancement based on their physical, mental and emotional level, and potential for growth.
SOURCES

The ADM is influenced by the work of Istvan Balyi and widely supported by research conducted around the world.
IMPLEMENT

Use the following recommendations as a way to further your ADM advocacy in the U.S.
NGB ENGAGEMENT


PARENT RESOURCES

- Getting kids off the couch & into the game
- What to aim for in youth programs
- First steps in building an athlete for life

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: smokeycabin] #250411 04/09/18 06:24 PM
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smokeycabin Offline OP
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The ADM is a model that needs to be implemented
and not just make posters that never get delivered to the clubs.
So there are a few people listening - that is a good thing. Everybody is struggling with the dollars and short sighted gains 4,5, & 6 year olds provide in card money
and gear sales, awards, and Dippin Dots sales. The ADM has some history
of success in USA and Canadian Hockey

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: smokeycabin] #250424 04/10/18 02:36 PM
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Smokey,

How are numbers in the other sports? Could numbers be down because kids are less motivated? Is it because more sports or activities are offered than used to be? Is it because kids are specializing more (baseball, volleyball, and softball practice with their academies all winter)?

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: smokeycabin] #250425 04/10/18 02:44 PM
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It seems as though the mentality in all youth sports overall is hurting participation across all sports. However, as I stated before, there are still options in other sports to join recreation type leagues. So IF a parent doesn't want to get intense or specialize - they don't have to. In wrestling (at least in Kansas) there are no options for a true recreation experience.

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Lars Lueders] #250428 04/10/18 04:53 PM
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I'm going to add my 2 cents from both a coach and parent of a young wrestler.

We need to make wrestling FUN at an early age to help young wrestlers fall in love with this great sport. My son actually quit wrestling this season because he was not having fun at practice. The emphasis at the practice was more about "getting better" than about having fun. He is only 6...I could have cared less if he got better or if he won any matches. I wanted him to learn to love the sport first, and then compete second. We will try again next year with the same goals in mind.

There is too much of an emphasis on winning 6U trophies than there is with truly helping young athletes develop a love and passion for the sport.

Make it Fun and they will stick with it. Make it a grind at a young age and they will learn to hate it.


Justin Bode
Leavenworth High School Boys and Girls Assistant
Tournament Director
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Coach Bode] #250430 04/10/18 08:03 PM
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USA Wrestling as a national organization acknowledges and recognizing there is a problem and in 2014 and lightly publicized the ADM - it is up to the states and local organizations to adopt/implement or begin to take some of these suggestions and lead - look at our sport for the long hall ............. Do not say XYZ state is doing 4 and 6 year old state and nationals. Diaper rankings has to stop in all sports. Championship Belts oh my - please do not say it is so.

How many people, coaches, officials, kids of coaches and officials, etc were lost when over 300 college programs were dropped during the 1970's
through the 1990's (or currently)? A bunch. over the last 40-50 years a large knowledgeable fan base.

Mentality of all youth sports PARENTS is a problem more than the kids - true!

ADM needs to be taught to the kids club coaches, HS coaches and college coaches - and educated the dang parents.

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: doug747] #250432 04/10/18 08:07 PM
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smokeycabin Offline OP
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Long Term Athlete Development Program:
• Long Term Athlete Development Poster
https://content.themat.com/CoachesCorner/LTADPoster.pdf

• Team USA Athlete Development Model (ADM)
https://www.teamusa.org/About-the-USOC/A...velopment-Model

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: smokeycabin] #250451 04/12/18 12:48 PM
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This topic is the worst and smokeycabin might be the most depressing poster ever. There are many positives out there and things to be excited about in the sport of wrestling and all smokey ever talks about is negative.

what does smokeycabin do on a personal level to make a positive impact to wrestling? positive examples of what works well for individual clubs is what should be focused on.

The worst excuse I hear from a coach or parent "we are fighting a losing battle" / "kids these days just don't want to work hard anymore" / "blah blah blah". Too many coaches and parents use this excuse to not put in the work!

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: klein] #250452 04/12/18 01:11 PM
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Derek Patterson Offline
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smokeycabin - what kid's club do you coach for, or are you a high school coach, or perhaps associated with a team on the collegiate level? Just curious what your roll is when it comes to direct contact with the wrestlers.


Derek Patterson
Maize Wrestling Club

�The art of living is more like wrestling than dancing."
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Derek Patterson] #250453 04/12/18 01:13 PM
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Smokeycabin identified a problem but then ALSO included a solution. I am not sure about you guys but I see him at our home tournament each year. He is a HUGE supporter of wrestling in our state. So, just take his posts for what it is. A call to action, not just a gripe fest. My two cents.


Jerad Gorney
Assistant Wrestling Coach- GEHS
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: insidetie] #250454 04/12/18 01:50 PM
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klein Offline
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Obviously he supports wrestling with 6k posts on kwca.

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Derek Patterson] #250466 04/13/18 01:44 AM
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Smokeycabin has been a very dedicated tireless youth wrestling coach in Kansas for probably over 25 years. He coached my son on his youth wrestling team for six to seven years. All the parents I know of those kids that my son wrestled with think the world of him and the positive wrestling environment that he gave our kids. A lot of those wrestlers became good wrestlers at the high school level and were part of two state championship teams. He is very dedicated to wrestling and coaching youth wrestlers the correct way. He loves the sport of wrestling and has dedicated most of his life to it. He was also a very successful college wrestler himself. He has also been very dedicated to promoting wrestling at all levels in Kansas, youth, high school and college. He is committed to seeing wrestling growing at all levels. I know he would probably preferred that I did not come to his defense here but I wanted you to know he is an experienced and dedicated youth wrestling coach with many years of experience.


Vince Nowak
Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter
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Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Husker Fan] #250467 04/13/18 10:30 AM
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Disagree with Smokey all you want, but you CANNOT question his dedication to the sport of wrestling at ALL levels, Kids through College.

All you are doing when you question his bona fides is show that you are relatively new to Kansas wrestling. Smokey has been one of the biggest boosters our sport has had and has been tireless in his work and free with his time.

Last edited by GregMann; 04/13/18 10:30 AM.

Greg Mann
Manhattan, KS
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: GregMann] #250469 04/13/18 11:35 AM
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smokeycabin Offline OP
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Truth hurts sometimes - if the current practices remain the norm - numbers will continue to decline - depressing post yes it is. Truth hurts sometimes! I can promise a few of you the question my time in the sport - I have wore out many many more vehicles coaching and getting wrestlers, (youth, HS, and College) to the gyms in Kansas and around the country. It is your turn to make a difference. Everyone wants the benefits of being part of a national organization - BUT BUT BUT do not want to take the advice available - Just Saying look at the facts.



Any plans for change to stop the declining numbers?

.
The experimental change is not working to sustain maintain,
Or grow the sport in the state.


During the period Nationally HS boys down 28,000 and girls up 8,000 in participation numbers. Overall numbers - 20,000 decline in HS participation - both nationally and in the state of Kansas an approximate 10 percent drop over the 8 year period - in HS participation. That is cause for some discussion on changes to the way we are "growing" the sport.


You Do The Math: High School Participation Numbers

2009/10 Data - NFHS
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatistics/PDF/2009-10%20Participation%20Survey.pdf
2016/2017 Data - NFHS
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatistics/PDF/2016-17_Participation_Survey_Results.pdf

National Numbers – Wrestling
2016/17 -
Totals - 259,391
Boys – 244,804
Girls – 14,587

2009/10
Totals – 279,024
Boys – 272,890
Girls – 6,134

Kansas Numbers – Wrestling
2016/17
Totals – 4,861
Boys – 4,749
Girls – 112

2009/10
Totals – 5,373
Boys – 5,319
Girls - 54

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: smokeycabin] #250470 04/13/18 12:01 PM
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One thing to understand too is that Smokey who wrestled in college in the early to mid 1980's has seen a heart breaking decline in the number of college wrestling programs especially at the D-1 level nationally. I believe the college he wrestled at Indiana State no longer has a NCAA wrestling program. Having been a first hand witness to this great decline in college wrestling programs nationwide and now seeing declining overall participation numbers Smokey is actively trying to raise awareness here on the forum and facilitate discussion on possible causes and solutions. He truly would just like to see this trend change and be part of the solution.


Vince Nowak
Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter
Please join the fight with your contributions

Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Derek Patterson] #250473 04/13/18 01:57 PM
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smokeycabin Offline OP
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Mr. Patterson,

I remember watching the 2002 6A KSHSAA High School Championships
and a few guys in our club were there also.

Why are entire towns being relocated from flood plains?
All I am saying is do not wait until the next flood to take action.
Plans are in place - membership needs to take a proactive approach.



Sean McCarthy


Last edited by smokeycabin; 04/13/18 02:26 PM.
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: smokeycabin] #250474 04/13/18 03:28 PM
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Derek Patterson Offline
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Mr. McCarthy,

Not entirely sure what the 2002 6A KSHSAA High School Championships has to do with this topic.

My original inquiry was simply a question. Trust me, it wasn't an attack by any means, even though some seem to think that. I've been involved with KS wrestling in some way or another since 1992 (not very long, but long enough). I wasn't trying to discredit anything that you've done for this sport, at the state or national level. I've obviously never met you, nor have I been involved with the "board" enough to know the behind-the-scenes details of your involvement.

I was just curious what team (club/HS/collegiate) has had the "system" implemented within it that you were/are affiliated with and what the results were? I assume that during your time coaching that you followed the guidelines put forth by the ADM (or something similar if it was before it had been presented) and I was curious as to how it resulted. Short term? Long term? Is it still in place in that club?

I know there's studies of this team and that team, this sport and that sport, across the entire country that show the system being used. I'm not knocking it at all. I was just wondering what the results have been in the past on a more "local" level.

Statistics don't lie. There is obviously a drop in numbers (across all sports) throughout the entire country. This I will not argue, but I believe there are a number of factors affecting this, not just kids being coached to a "high" level at too young of an age, or kids competing too much in a particular sport and getting "burnt out". Not saying that these factors don't come into play here and there.

There were 162 teams represented at this year's Kid's Folkstyle State Championships. Tons of different opinions on youth wrestling and how wrestlers should be brought up. Within our district alone, you can see a huge gap between how the clubs are ran. I'm not saying ours is right and theirs is wrong. We can all agree that it should be "fun"... but one child's definition of fun can be much different than another's. Where do you draw the line?

I've been with the Maize Wrestling Club for 8 years now and we have had very little turnover during that time, with 60-80 kids in our room each year. We have moved to a 3-room system the past few years to keep the intensity levels separate, and it seems to work very well. Again, not saying that we are doing everything right as there's always room for improvement in any aspect of life.

Derek Patterson


Derek Patterson
Maize Wrestling Club

�The art of living is more like wrestling than dancing."
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Derek Patterson] #250475 04/13/18 05:20 PM
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My point going back in time should take you back a few years as - to who influenced you to chose your current path in helping kids - which is awesome! KS added a National traveling team for school boy/girl age group around 2003/04 I believe - very age appropriate for the ADM model - getting kids ready for HS. Since that time - nationally and at the state level - National traveling teams have been getting younger and younger
the experiment is not working - we (the sport of wrestling) are losing kids - PERIOD. That is one BIG contributing factors adding
to the decline in HS numbers. Is the state and national agenda
to have all of the male and female Olympic Champs every cycle?


The TOTAL USA club numbers from state to state are not declining because they are starting earlier and earlier - we have more 5 year old kids that never make it to high school. We now have kids barely out of diapers rolling around for trophies. The wrestling community keeps pushing for more younger and younger championships and traveling teams - but we are losing numbers fast on the back end - at the High School level. I can not see as many coaches in the future with 4th grade national champ on their resume whom are running clubs, HS and college programs.

Sean -


Last edited by smokeycabin; 04/13/18 05:21 PM.
Re: Plans to reverse the declining numbers???? [Re: Derek Patterson] #250476 04/13/18 06:02 PM
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I never thought smokey needed defended nor did I question his time in the sport. I asked for personal positive experiences from the poster who started the thread. Was honestly only trying to add to solutions for the questions smokey was asking. Never questioned his love or passion for the sport. Individual experiences that others can learn from are what grows the sport. If asking a related questions to the topic is off limits, then we really are in trouble. Most if not all who post & or read KWCA forum page have been involved in KS wrestling most if not all our lives.

Seems like most sports are down across the board in participation #'s, not just wrestling. Not every state is down in wrestling numbers either, there are many that have grown in numbers. Has KS Wrestling reached out to states like Texas that have grown significantly? What is working for the most successful states?

Particpation numbers in 1969/70 226,681
Participation numbers in 2016/17 259,391

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