The new weigh-in requirements are a pretty major change for KS wrestling. I know there are a lot of strong feelings on all sides of this. But it got me thinking about a proposal I was trying to push last season, and I just wanted to throw it out there for discussion, see what everyone's thoughts were....pro and con.

I want to see us allow "Extra Entries" at Regionals (and the State tourney too, if an "extra" were to qualify), and yes, all scoring team points. Why not? They earned them.

My primary reason is I think it would reduce a lot of unwanted/unnecessary weight-cutting. We all have two kinds of kids who "cut weight"...those that just want to for whatever their reasons are (they are very dedicated and serious about what they want to achieve), and these kids will always cut regardless of what the rules are. Then we have kids who aren't necessarily up for it, but "do it for the team" or because they can't crack the lineup otherwise. Lot of times, their parents hate it. A couple times I have had a state placer who was a wt class below what he should have been. I (and them and their parents) would have much rather seen them eating more all season and wrestling up. We've also all had situations where a parent would not allow a kid to compete at a certain weight.

If we allowed two kids at a weight, the only kids left cutting weight, would be those who want to. Those who aren't up for it (and their parents) would much more enjoy the sport.

This would be a good thing for our sport, I think. More kids/parents would appreciate the sport.

Another plus....we can bulk up our Regional brackets, make it more competitive, more wins needed to advance. Less opens.

Another plus....it grows our sport. More kids get to be involved at the varsity level. More kids competing for the right to be a State Qualifier.

My Regional voted in strong favor it, maybe because I tried to talk it up before the vote. But quite a few other regionals voted the opposite. One concern I saw was that it would skew team points. Honestly, I don't think it would make as much a difference in team scoring as some might think, especially at the state level, how often is it that a team will have two state medal caliber wrestlers at the same weight. Sure, it will happen, and if it does, then great, that team deserves those points.

Track & Field does it, a team can enter up to 3 in an event. If a team goes 1-2-3 at the state meet in an event, they get those points and should.

Another concern I heard was it would cause different sized Regional brackets, with the possibility of some being too big. Again, I think our Regional schedule and bracketing can handle it. It's worth a try anyway. If this is a concern, we can always tweak the system to make it work once we see what it might look like.

I originally proposed 18 entries per team at Regional, any weight. But I liked Coach Mann from Blue Valley's reply, which was to allow 18 entries, but in only 4 weight classes, a team could enter a second entry. This still forces teams to try to fill all weight classes, but also allowing a few extras.

I really am less concerned with the details of the proposal, mostly interested in a set-up that allows us to get our Varsity-caliber back-ups a chance to compete for State and not have to cut unwanted weight to do so. Also, would love to see us get more kids involved!

Personally, I think it would be a great bonus for our sport.

What does everyone think?

This is a great idea. More opportunities for kids and the only true solution to weight cutting issues.

I am for this also, some states already have a system similar to this in place.

I am 100% on board with this proposal. It was baffling to me that this didn't pass overwhelmingly last year. I fail to see any reason why we wouldn't do anything we could as coaches to push participation and grow our sport.

This would be great. I believe Washburn Rural had a wrestler break their jaw last year at league and their JV wrestler filled in for him at regionals and ended up being a state placer.

Indeed this happened. That said, I voted in favor of the additional entries at regionals (the week before Cole Wells placed at state).

I am for this!.. I wrestled NAIA where you can send up to 12 but only 10 weights.. got my vote

This would also need to change for in-season tournaments, correct? If half your weigh ins need to be at your regional wrestling weight than we should be able to enter two guys in at 106 at each tournament. I'm in favor of this too.

Some tournaments currently allow extra entries, some do not. We attend several that do, including my BIT.

I think that decision would still just be up to the tourney host, if they felt like their format would handle it or not. I think it would be hard to require all local tournaments to allow extra entries.

I am all for this buddy.

Randy Streeter
Lawrence High Lions Wrestling
Lawrence Southwest Bulldog Wrestling
Sunflower Kids Wrestling

I like this idea. I was in favor of it when it was proposed at our regional. If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure a majority of coaches weren't opposed to the idea. But it was hard to get a vote on something where you dont have everything ironed out.

I'm in favor of adding extra entries, but limiting it to 4 extras and only 2 wrestlers per team per weight class. They did have a discussion about this at regionals last year and several questions arose during that discussion. I believe that these were passed up the KWCA chain of command so that hopefully we can get the answers and come back with a more clear proposal that we can all support and take to KSHSAA.

I am only a humble assistant coach, not currently a head coach like many of the dudes commenting on this topic, but I will chime in with a couple of thoughts as to why some people might be against this idea(or at the very least against a set up where there are an unlimited # of entries per team):
1)For newer schools struggling to get the program off the ground, they would perceive that it lessens the chance to sneak a state qualifier or two...and for a newer program a qualifier or two is to them what more medalists are to big, established programs...and provides them with the chance to show success, progress and recruit to move the program towards that stronger level.
2)I suspect some smaller schools in some of the classes would have a similar position or idea(and perhaps some of the KCK schools as well).

In both those cases, the idea that stronger, more established programs with deeper talent wells could conceivably eat up those marginal spots would likely be part of their arguments against.

Now, I have served over several years in various capacities in both strong, deep established programs as well as (now) in a new and growing program so I see both sides of the issue. I am sure there are those that will say "tough toenails" to the arguments of those small schools and those new/growing programs. And that's cool. But I honestly think if we want to see KS wrestling continue to flourish in all corners of the state then at the very least those concerns ought to be part of the discussion-whether people agree or not. It isn't college(ie: NAIA) so I'm really feeling that's not even part of this equation. Instead it should be what everyone determines is best overall for Kansas wrestlers and wrestling. Having been on both sides I'm not sure what that is...but I think there are some complicated issues to work through if anyone want a consensus on the idea.

Thanks,
Mike McLaughlin
Olathe West ass't coach(these days)

Mike-
Very solid points. I figured that both were reasons it was voted down last year. With regard to the small-school argument, I really don't have an informed opinion since I have no coaching experience there. However, I do have experience with coaching a growing program. My first year at WRHS we had three state qualifiers, won 1 match at state, and finished 29th out of 32 teams. We built the program by building our numbers. As coaches we can't sit back, do the minimum, and then worry about "the haves vs. the have-nots..." we have to instead focus on building our numbers to (a) grow the sport, and (b) turn a developing program into a "have."

I’m all about more opportunities for the athletes, but coaching in 321a I am strongly against this proposal. I don’t even know if there was a full team at the Rossville regional last year. This is just a guess, but I bet there wasn’t even 10 teams with “full teams” at the 321a classification. You can say that your not trying hard enough or not recruiting hard enough, well that’s bs. It’s very hard to come by a full team these days in 321a. Just my thoughts and opinions.

My main reason for this proposal is to let kids not have to cut weight to make the varsity lineup. Especially when those kids and parents are against it and don't want to.

Lot of people are caught up with the team winning & losing aspect of this...I mostly want to just a) provide kids more opportunities and b) minimize unnecessary weight-cutting

Kyle, I’m with ya. Like I said, I know nothing at all about the 321A environment. That said, if a school has 1200 students, they should be able to fill a roster. But I got us off topic....that’s a discussion for a different thread. I agree with coach Harris; it’s a safety issue. Would love the opportunity for seniors to not have to cut a ton of weight to get their shot at the big show.

All the more reason to be for this proposal, as you may have two kids at the same weight one would have to cut, it happens. Fill up the brackets.

Hey Damon, great points! As another "old hand" I agree with the building of numbers theory. At the various programs I've headed up even the ones that had good numbers initially got better with our recruiting. And, as I said, I've been on both sides of this issue. When I was HC at Olathe South each year I had Justin Dyer I literally had a guy who could have qualified and had to either, as we know, "go up, go down or go jv" as we've all had. So I'm there with you...and with Kit's discussion of the weight cut deal.

But I'm going to have to disagree that taking into account concerns of smaller programs, newer programs, rebuilt ones (like you came into at WR or I came into at OS), or urban ones is always a case of sitting back and "doing the minimum". Quite often those guys running those programs are amazingly dedicated people that have on purpose taken on very challenging situations because of their love of wrestling and love of working with kids. And very often(not always of course) but often they are trying to build their numbers. And one of their tools is often being able to hold up those one, two or three dudes(and now hopefully ladies ) that manage to fight their way through to the show.

Again, I'm not saying the proposal isn't solid or should or shouldn't be approved. But I am advocating for taking those concerns into account and figuring out how to persuade/sell/convince those coaches at those programs that this benefits their kids as well if you want it to gain enough support to ever pass.