With Norton's tournament win in Newton, is there a better team in Kansas? Norton hasn't won every tournament...believe they were 2nd to Clay Center in the Clay Center invite?? But in one of the state's largest tournaments, the only 3A school at the tourney won. I know KC Turner is good; Bishop Carroll may beat them in any other given tournament and there's other good teams out there. But Norton's one of the best. Like Hoxie in 2003. Anyone better?

It seems like their dual team might be a little suspect, but they already won the Goodland dual tourney so who knows.

Changed my whole perspective on 3A schools. Norton rules. They have some excellnt wrestlers. Lets do it again next year. Its great seeing all theese Kansas schools get together for a tournament of that magnatude. Who will win Newton next year? We can start the predictions right now :-)

Mike ,over all it wa a great tournament. The tournament lived up to the moniker"Tournament
of Campions." The Clay Center team was strong, Perry Ok.,Ark City and on. Glad I could be there.

Perry was ok but I wonder why its their tradition not to shake the opposing coache's hand?

Mr. Church,
Don't know for sure, but I had heard that teams in Oklahoma don't shake hands. Now, back in the day when I was competing in high school, our team didn't shake hands with opposing schools either. However, when I was a freshman I was told that a few years earlier an opposing coach had shaken the hand of one of our wrestlers (the coach's son) and had called him a racial slur because they had lost. Since that year, our coach decided not to shake hands with other coaches either. And we all know, or should know, you do what you're asked by a coach without question. Maybe the last statement is to "old school" for some of the youngsters to understand.

I hate to admit it, but I really think that the team that wins Newton is the best team in the state at this point in the year. In a month, maybe not, but right now? Norton reigns supreme. Burrito supreme. And a chicken supreme. And a nacho supreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemeeeyeaaaah. Go -Kyle-now-Go-Kyle-now-Go-Kyle-now-Go-Kyle-now supreme-ah.

That tradition goes back to Danny Hodge, ever shake his hand? Just kidding here.

I do have several friends that have kids who wrestle with Perry and will say that they are in their own world down there. Wrestling is top dog in that town and they are definitely old school in their techniques, including the practice room, and shaking hands with opposing teams.

Bishop Carroll goes down to the Perry Tournament and very few of the Oklahoma schools shake the coach's hand. I heard it was because of a near fight between a wrestler and a coach a few years ago, but I'm not sure if that is true.

I agree with Dingbat. That the team who wins Newton and/or Baeshor is the best to this point in the season. We put the pressure on Norton but when it came down to it they stepped up and won the big match. They deserve all the credit they get.
Likewise KC Turner should be credited with a being an elite team. On another thread someone asked if they were for real. They are defending state champs who only graduated two guys - how can they not be legite.
People may remember state and not this weekend, but today Norton and KC Turner are two of the state's elite teams.

We wrestled Cascia Hall, Oklahoma (Tulsa School) at the Lonestar Duals and they did not shake hands with us after each match. Lawton, OK was there as well, but I didn't notice if they shook hands with other team's coaches because we didn't wrestle them. All of the Texas schools shook our hands after each match.

I was a little shocked because in Kansas it is so automatic and you just expect to shake the kids' hands after they wrestle your kid. I do not know why the tradition of of not shaking the coaches' hands apparently exists in Oklahoma, but I'm proud that it is not a tradition or custom in Kansas.

Norton is just that good!

Norton is that good but there are others like Turner and Carroll and if Clay Center, who lost to Carroll, has beaten Norton this year, so are they and if Manhattan, who lost to Norton, beat Turner, so are they. I know there are others like Goddard, Ark City, Saint Francis, Scott City, Columbus, Abilene, Aquinas etc. If you say that the team that wins Newton is the best in the state, then I guess that that is Norton. But surely that is not the determining factor because if it was, then every team that won Newton in the past was the best team in the state. Norton did not win Newton last year but they knocked off the "immortal" Hoxie at state. Norton was fantastic at Newton and just may be the best. But they did not earn my respect by winning Newton, they earned it a long time ago.

In regards to shaking hands: Those of us who are "old dogs" will remember a time when there was a minimum of hand shaking. You finished the match, shook hands with your opponent and went back to your team bench.

The first time that I remember seeing the habit of universally shaking hands with the opposing coach following a match as a matter-of-course was in the late 1970's/early 80's (memory failing me again) at a dual between Garden City & Ulysses. Ulysses won the state championship that year and they were coached by Ron Furman(?) and they were the first team that I ever saw shake hands with the opposing coach.

Also, in the early or mid-80's it was illegal to shake hands with the opposing coach due to an unfortunate incident somewhere "back east." the rule was widely ignored by the end of the season and then removed altogether at the end of the season-kind or rememebr that it was a National Federation Rule, but may have been from the KSHSAA.

In regards to is Norton the best team in Kansas: Undoubtedly the BlueJays are an elite team and on any given day are capable of beating anyone in a tournament situation due outstanding depth of quality. But, this can also be said of about 1/2 dozen Kansas teams this year, and probably in any year.

It has been said, but bears repeating: winning a tournament like the TOC or the Bobcat is one heck of an accomplishment for any school of any size. That Norton was able to do it with such a small enrollment compared to 5A & 6A schools does make it worthy of special notice.

Norton did lose to Clay Center but they were open at 140 due to illness.

I know there was a year that Chapman didn't shake hands while I was there. It was strange for me as I believe in the shaking hand aspect (though unbearable following a loss) is good to see in the eyes of lil ones. I also notice some schools shake referees hands like wildfire when did shaking the refs hand become a habit?

i wrestled at minneapolis and gaduated in 02 i know that like my junior and senior year our team for the most part shook the refs hands after every match, im not too sure why though, i knew that it became part of match like shakin the other kids hand

In Greco and Freestyle isn't it kind of a ritual to shake the ref's hand the opponet's hand and after the match you shake the ref's hand the other coach's hand the opponent's hand and the refs at the table hand's? Shake shake shake shake shake. Kinda cool.

I see there are many reasons why oposing teams do not shake the coaches hand. I think I respect the young athlete more for showing sportsmanship,honor and dignity for our sport by shaking hands with the oposing coach. This is just one of the many reasons why Kansas wrestling is the real deal to me. You always hear how superior Oaklahoma is to Kansas in the sport of wrestling and I reject that. Kansas kicks alot of ASSTRICALS in Oaklahoma in more ways than one.

Back to the original topic. I have seen Norton and Turner this year and I think it is a toss up between the two. I hate to pick either one, but I would love to see a dual between them. Norton might be a little stronger in the lower weights, but I think Turner is stronger in the middle. The upper weights are probably about even. Two great programs.

I'm sure there are other "experts" out there, but my money (literally) is on Norton.

When asked MY opinion: My money rests on Norton's shoulders. If not them, whoever wins the title at the WaKeeney Regional! The only reson why Norton might not win the title at Hays, will be determined by how many of their wrestlers advance out of that regional.

There might be others out there that will disagree with me, but Norton's way too tough to not be considered the front runner for the 1-2-3A team title right now...