Every year I notice brackets where by the “luck of the draw” kids either advance effortlessly out due to a bye(s) or find themselves on the hard/easy side of the bracket. For the most part this is just the nature of the beast but given several posts over the years including a present one “I don’t understand”, I would like some feedback if the following makes sense.

I understand life isn’t fair and I understand we can’t change everything but I also believe that every wrestler that has worked hard all season to make it to state in hopes of placing deserves the same right as any other wrestler in their bracket. Unfortunately sometimes, and it is no fault of anyone or any district, situations arise when seeds are left open (sometimes multiple seeds) allowing for a wrestler to advance unchallenged to the medal round. There are other, more frequent times, when one side of the bracket may be loaded and the other will be made up of less talented wrestlers. We all like to say, “the cream rises to the top” but unfortunately this isn’t always the case especially when all the cream is on one side. I am not advocating that we change any seeding or district assignments, what I am interested in is; does challenge matches make sense for 2nd place? I will be the first to say, my own son has benefited from the current rules. Years ago he placed 2nd but the other side was completely stacked. This year due to open seeds he will advance all the way to the semis. I can’t help think what everyone on the other side must think and how this is right. I can assure you Tanner does not want the bye(s) and possibly leave questions of whether he deserves to place automatically.

With that being said I believe by implementing challenge matches we bring some clarity to who deserves 2nd. This simple solution erases most questions and concerns on whether little Johnny got screwed by being in the wrong district at the wrong time.

I am not aware if this has ever been recommended to the state body but should there be interest in this I will make a recommendation this summer so this could be implemented next year. Your thoughts and feedback are welcomed.

Challenge Match single choice
	yes
	no
Votes accepted starting: 03/22/10 05:27 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

I think the better question is what sort of mindset does a kid have to wrestle again after having their heartbroken after losing what may have been a very close match in the State Finals? That competitor is already at a disadvantage mentally coming in. I know it's easy to say "well x wrestler should have himself prepared mentally" but as we all know it's tough to get many young kids mentally ready to wrestle in the first place, especially when you get into the 10us and 8us.

Furthermore, I think it kind of takes away from the ambiance of setting up medal contender introductions, wrestling through the finals, and then having yet another round of challenges after that. I understand this is something that they do at some of the national kids tournaments, however that doesn't mean it is what is right or best for USAWKS.

I will quote Ricky Bobby....."If you ain't first, your last"....second and third is basically the same place, either way your not the champ.

Having a bye at State isn't an advantage IMO. That's a lot of time for my wrestler to hang out with his worse enemy. It sits on his shoulders.

(To Beeson) Tell that to the kid that gets the 4th place to go on to state instead of leaving district with nothing. 2nd, 3rd, 4th... it all matters to these kids and that is what its about! Im pretty sure that the kids that get 6th at state are going to be happy that they placed - even if they arent the champion! There are kids going to state that know they dont have a shot at 1st, but they are excited at the thought of placing somewhere on that 3-6 list!

I'm not saying to take away medals from the other five. I'm saying we don't need to challenge for 2nd. Champion and then everyone else is a placer. We don't need to find out if 2nd is truely better than 3rd. If so we need to challenge for 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th also. I think we need to leave it as it is.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were saying that 2-6 just doesnt matter. I see now that you were referring to the challenge. I agree with you on that the challenge wouldnt be a good idea.

Chad, do you think receiving byes out to the medal round or possibly even to the final (slim I know) and given a medal is right? Especially if there are better kids getting beat out on the other side?

Perhaps this was not your intention, but what does kids getting beat out on one side of a bracket have to do with 2nd place challenge matches? If a kid gets beat out of a tournament he/she would have no opportunity to challenge for an upgrade in placing in the first place.

What you are talking about would really only be solved by seeding the State tournament, which I'm sure you can imagine would be a disaster of epic proportions. The only other alternative would be to allowed condensed brackets at the state tourny, which again would/could lead to issues.

I don't like having a wrestler get a bye out to the semifinals, as I am sure the wrestler does not like it either. Very few of the Brackets have this problem. It is not the kids fault. They did everything they were asked, showed up and wrestle. Their is no shame in that. I would rather see that happen then for the greater number of finalists having to prove themselves. The champion is still the champion.

I do not like the idea of a challenge match. One kid just lost a match in the finals and the other kid is just coming off a win, who do you think has the adv.? I have seen it from all sides. At USJOC my son was the #2 seed and took 3rd. He challenged the kid who took 2nd (#1 seed) and lost in a close match. At Middle School State one of my wrestlers took 4th then was challenged by the kid who took 5th (who had beat him earlier) and lost and then did not make the KS National Duel Team. At the same tournament another of our wrestlers took 5th then challenged and took 4th and made the team. Until they have a challenge format at High School State Tournament we should keep it as is.
Now, if you want to seed the State Tournament that might be an idea. Start with #1 vs #4 then seed the rest of the bracket.

I hate the 2nd place challenge concept. If you could gather the data I am guessing you will find that you might as well hand Mr. Third place his 2nd place award. Especially for kids.

2 and 3 are on the same side of the bracket at state anyway and if 3 is better he will win in the semis. Years ago D1 did it that way (at subs or district, can't remember which) but I don't think it made alot of difference so they quit. If someone had a bad match in the semis at district they have a chance to make up for it the next weekend. Good luck to everyone this weekend!

Why we are at it let make all matches at stae the best 2 out of 3 just in case someone has a bad match or gets caught in something goofy.

State brackets are not seeded so 2 and 3 are not always on the same side of the bracket. You could have your best 2 wrestlers on the same side of the bracket it is just luck of the draw.

It has always been the luck of the draw. No reason to chance it. This year you are on the weak side next year on the strong side. Wrestle your best and no one can question it. If we challenge for 2nd then we need to challenge for every other place. Not sure we all have a week for state.

Sorry bout that I was talking bout district challenges.

Until districts can be re-done, and the seeding can be done fair yea I think their should be. I understand everyone that said it shouldn't but I seen some kids this year that just got seeded like a cake walk and I seen severals kids get seeded #2 or #3 that didn't have a very good record at all. It didn't affect my son but I did see 2 kids that was seeded over my son and he had pinned them all year in local tourneys. My sons seeding was not near as bad as some of the other kids from our club. So you got look at this both ways should a kid get 3rd when he could of easy beat the kid for 2nd but he got robbed on his seeding???

I ran this by my son (because he is the one who is doing all of the wrestling) and he thinks it would be cool. Let the kids vote. I'm yes and no. Yes if we get 3rd and no if we get 2nd. LOL

I don't see what their is to lose..Like they say let the best man win!!!