Three of the six tournaments would be in District 2? The other three Districts would hold one tournament. That sounds like a lot of travel for the other three districts.



Then you need to go where they are: The Kickoff, Tulsa, USJOC, etc. You can't beat them if you don't wrestle them.

Oklahoma's series charges $1 per kid, and it is pooled together for the end of year awards. They have 10-15 tourneys on their schedule that take part. Most of the time the best kid in the age and weight doesn't win the end of year award. It is the kid that goes to the most tourneys, there by accumulating the most points. Winning that Oklahoma series points title is nothing to get too excited about. I don't think a Kansas series would be any different.

I was about to puke this weekend when the words "All American" were used about 500 times at Brute. Brute is a fun tourney, cool venue, way too expensive, but most brackets are average AT BEST. There was only one other kid in my son's Brute bracket that could have placed at my son's KS Kids State bracket, so our State tourney was MUCH tougher than his Brute bracket.

I am all for keeping a kid interested by encouraging him when he does well. BUt at the same time, I am TOTALLY against all of the false smoke we blow up kids' rears with the All American talk that they hear at tourneys like Brute that are no tougher (in some brackets) than your local tourneys. And even if it is tougher than your local tourneys, and has some out of state kids, that shouldn't give it the "right" to call itself a tourney that grants AA status.

Giving out these big awards for this series is silly talk as well. What we need to concentrate on is WHO they are wrestling, not WHAT they are winning. I believe you learn more from a loss to a tough kid, than you do beating an average kid. The problem is most parents are not very anxious, or willing, to watch their kid get his butt whippped. A good mix of local tourneys where they can excel, and several tough tourneys like Tulsa to keep 'em humble is what I think is best. I made several of those 0-2 drives to Tulsa early on in my son's "career"!! Then you move up to winning a match or two, then the agony of just missing the podium, to getting on the podium, etc. There is no instant gratification in this sport. It takes time.

The above is my thoughts on making Kansas wrestling better as a whole. Some people choose to not get as "serious" as others. Nothing wrong with that. I just haven't ever learned how to show a kid how to have a good time when he is getting whipped every match. You can only talk up the "small wins within a loss" so much.

Hey my kid is a brute all-american darnit lol he asked me what the certificate was for and i told him it would make a tremendous paper airplane, so thats what we used it for when we got home.
People need to realize that we are training these kids for the future and that we are not wrestling these matches that we want them in every weekend. Ask your sons or daughters if they want to wrestle 2-1 or overtime matches every week. My son strives and wants to be the best but also wants to go to some locals and get some good fun matches in. Tulsa every weekend is way too much for any kid to handle.
Also if you want your son to keep improving don't just wrestle the big tourneys on your up year, We were on the bottom this year and traveled to all the same toyurneys as our up year and did just fine. he didn't place at all of them but we were competetive and learned.

just my opinion Mike Pirl

chad I did say i went to cliff keen and tulsa. went 0-2 at cliff keen. placed 5th at tulsa. placed first at ted anderson that also had several of okies best. so yes my son has been there and beat an oklahoma state champion at the wichita classic. I didnt say anything about what tournaments have to be set in stone for the series. those were just some of the tournaments that i can think of that the best kids travel to. I also think one of the tournaments on the east side of the state could turn into an eastern kansas classic then we have west, central and east covered. why not have most of them in the center of the state where its a fair drive from all directions to save on that expensive gas. i will be making the trip back to some of those big tournaments next season as I will have 2 sons wrestling and both on the bottom side of age groups. i cant speak for everyone else but for me the series sounds like it would be worth a try. if it works then great. if it doesnt then will it kill kansas wrestling in one year. if it hasnt killed oklahoma in how many years they have been running it then i cant see it killing it in kansas. first off nobody even knows if those tournaments would even say yes to be part of the series anyways. im sure that would be the first step as to getting what tournaments would even be part of it.

This is not set in stone so don’t freak out...
The details are not exact either but it gives an idea as to what we are looking for.

To be a part of the Kansas Series a club would have to do a few things:

1. Part of every entry would go into a fund to pay for the end of the year recognition. Some clubs let their own wrestlers wrestle for free at home events. They would still be responsible for paying the series fee. Oklahoma does $1 per entry. I think we would try to shoot for the same amount.

2. All results must be accurate and would have to be turned into USAWKS and the series coordinator within 72 hours of the end of the tournament.

3. All series points’ brackets will have to be single brackets. No multiple brackets per weight unless you are running a novice tournament as well.

4. All series events must offer a 14U division.

5. All series events must offer all weight classes for each age division. Yes weights can be combined but only if they follow allowed weight difference guidelines.

6. Be a part of a preseason tournament scheduling meeting to try to maximize dates and locations throughout the state. A weekend can have more than one series tournament on the same weekend if they are far enough apart.

We will also look at rules about the number of certified refs per tournament.
We would also like series clubs to be willing host and allow satellite weigh ins.
We would also like series clubs to be willing to assist other series tournaments with table workers or other personnel if needed.

There would also be bonus point criteria available:
We would also like tournaments to offer an Outstanding Wrestler Awards for each age based upon a consistent series criteria.
We would also set up a weighting system based upon size of bracket or number of matches wrestled or if it is a bracket that has wrestlers from multiple districts.


Please look these over and provide any feedback you can. ANY suggestions on tweeking or adding criteria is welcomed.
I think all of these criteria strengthen the credibility of a series tournaments and awards wrestlers for seeking and wrestling tough brackets.

So... isn't it already a "series" if those tournaments are attracting some of the best kids in the state?

Not sure those tournaments can handle more numbers anyway.

You can't have your cake and eat it to. Seems you are concerned with cost (as is everyone else), but don't want to travel far, but want good competition for your sons (admirable,...we all do.) Why not just look on Track Wrestling at the end of the season at your son's profile. There's your series. It's called a season.

More than one series tournament per week? You just took any validity away from a series. So already we are seeing greed come into the picture. This will not be a five or six club series. Anybody that wants to be part of the series can. All you have to do is make sure you pay your dues.

Extra points for weighted brackets and OW? Who decides which brackets are tough? How will the OW be decided? Most are decided by fastest pin, which doesn't teach wrestling. It teaches Headlocks, Snakes, Twister's and all the other muscle moves that retard a wrestlers growth.

Single brackets? That just shot most of District 1 out of the water as they are huge fans of multiple RR brackets for more mat time.

What are you going to do about size of tournaments? I don't know if Maize and Derby are even interested, but they have been brought up. They are near capacity right now. I would think there could not be a limit on wrestlers to a series event. We need to make sure everyone has a chance at the points. So what happens when a "series tournament" can't handle anymore entries?

If a series is started, there will be an entry fee increase within 3 years. The "awards" will get bigger and bigger and they will have to pay for them somehow. Your entry fees will go up.

The more thought people put in to this series the more this topic is dumbing me to death. I've yet to see a benefit for kansas wrestling. Its just seems like a kansas wrestling version of Goverment health care. Something select few are trying to jam down our throats


913-314-4529

beeson your right there are alot of things that need to be figured out before it is set in stone. as to my sons profile i didnt put that on there for you to perk up at. i put that on there cause someone said i needed to go to those tournaments after i already said i did. im not 100 percent on board with the series i would like to give it a try as i have given several tournaments within the state a try. some good some bad. if it doesnt work its an easy fix and its done. nothing hurt. my only concern is if it really hurts the credability of the state tournament. i also agree with beeson on ow cause if your pinning every kid with a headlock in 10 seconds that isnt learning how to wrestle cause come highschool time your not going to pin many good kids with a headlock period. i have given my ideas on this and i am moving on to my baseball season. if those involved make the series happen i will back it. if not then i will still be wrestling just like i did this year.

First off I said these were ideas...
And not to freak out



Second: Yes more than one per week. Cause some clubs will never change their weekend. Park City and Western Ks will always be on the same weekend. I wish it wasn’t so but...

Where do you see greed here? You have used that term over and over and I don’t see it. Just like your Monopoly term! It’s not like someone or a club will be taking money as an admin fee. It’s just a way to help create stronger tournaments and make people get out of their sand box and wrestle better competition INSIDE of Kansas. Maybe even draw competition from outside of KS. Wouldn’t it be nice if all the strong OK kids came to us instead us to them?



This is like saying the sun is going to set! You are going to see entry fees start to climb over the next 3 years anyway. That has nothing to do with wrestling it our economy!

So are you saying you are against OW awards?


1st We don’t need MOST of district 1s tournaments to make this work but we do need a few. I encourage mat time and RR as much as the next guy but in cases like these, one bracket is the way to go!

You know I’ve heard a lot of people get on here and criticize other people for not stepping up and TRYING to make a difference. Maybe thats why not very many people do. But we agree that change is needed. Isnt that why you got involved as a D2 rep?
So Ive heard all the reasons why this idea supposedly isnt going to work. What are all of you going to do next year to try to leave our sport better then you found it or are you just going to sit back and think you are doing your part by finding fault in everyone elses ideas?
Thats not promoting change or breathing life it to our sport!
Thats just dying slower!

Lance Tracy

I like kansas wrestling the way it is. I dont want to be like oklahoma or any other state. We have tournaments from dec-may. If you kid is not getting enough tough matches WRESTLE UP IN AGE GROUP!!! I am tired of hearing how great oklahoma wrestling is. People not happy because we dont do it like Oklahoma. We have our own state & our own way of doing things. I wrestle kansas because thats where i like it the best. Dont change a thing Kansas you dont have to copy another state. I am not saying KS wrestling cant be improved, just saying we dont have to copy Oklahoma to do it.

Ok
I understand your point here! And I am not saying OK or any other state is better then KS. But you can look and see somethings that other people are doing good and incorparate into what we are already doing great...
But tell me why when people get on here and talk about ALL these big bad tournaments its always OK, OK, OK, Mo and oh ya by the way the Classic is pretty good too...
We are still second fiddle and until we are on top then why stop trying unless you enjoy the view!

Because they have a distorted view of things. People always think the grass is greener on the other side. My boys (& most of you know who they are) never have a problem finding a kid that can beat them right here in Kansas. Complaining & wrestling in other states is not good for Kansas wrestling this I am sure of.

Until Oklahoma requires USA cards, Kansas will not draw a huge number of Oklahoma kids. Why should they come wrestle in our series when they have their own?



They do not have to increase in the next three, five or ten years. Too much bling is what makes entry fees increase. Let's keep it affordable.


Yes! Even though my club gives them out, I am personally against them. At least in the since of fastest pin.

Its not about them wrestling in our series its about them coming to OUR tournaments for the great compettion, big brackets, and yes the BLING!

No they don't have to increase over the next few years but neither does the cost of a gallon of milk but you are a fool to think that it won't.



Well I have never heard you get on here and talk about how stupid you think the AC tournament is for giving OW awards. Is it greed for your club that keeps you from doing that?

You know Chad
When we started kicking this idea around we made a little list of people we thought we would have to have on board to make this thing work. You were on that list! So Im not giving up on you!

This is not the place for me to voice my opinion to the board members of my club. I do that at the meetings. I never said I was adamantly against O.W. awards. There are differring degrees of disagreement, O.W. awards although I disagree with, I can live with. This series idea is a totally different monster.

As for the awards for the 6-8 unders & kids new to the sport it does matter. My youngest son started wrestling when he was 4 ys old & wrestled over 30 matches & won 2. The next year he started winning about 80% of his matches. We decided to go to the Beloit round robin & they had trophys for first only. I told him & he was very happy about the idea of wrestling for a trophy. At the tournament he wrestled very good. He was not leaving without that award!! He won & on the 2 hour ride home I looked in the back seat & there he was sleeping still holding his torphy in his lap with both hands! This is one of many good memorys I have of Kansas wrestling. Now that they are older they really dont care about awards any more. We have left several tournaments without getting the awards because they did not want to wait in a long line.

"1st We don't need MOST of district 1s tournaments to make this work but we do need a few. I encourage mat time and RR as much as the next guy but in cases like these, one bracket is the way to go!"

You don't need District 1's tournaments to make this work? Or all of them anyway? How does it support or improve KANSAS WRESTLING. Shouldn't it need support from all districts? That statment in itself shows exatly the good ole boy system this idea appears to come from. Not that I really care, I see no way it improves Kansas Wrestling thus will choose not to praticipate. Rewards or not just hit the tough tournaments like always. And see quality competetion like normal, And this idea will go away. I would accually like to see how single sided this is lets put a pole counter on it and see if I'm wrong Lance.

What I was trying to express is we need all the clubs in District 1 to support this but we don't need every tournament in District 1 to be a series tournement.
If District 1 loves RR then by all means go for it. But in order it get good coverage we would need some of District 1's tournaments to step up and be a part of this. And that would mean that tournament would have to step away from the RR format if there is less then six kids in that weight.
You know if we could get one to three clubs from each district to try this out the first year. I think it would show its potential.
The entries in those tournaments would be up.
IThe level of competition would be up.
And people would get to see some new faces that they normally wouldn't see.

All of those things are positives for KS Wrestling.

Three clubs from each district would be 12 tournaments, and that is just to realize the potential. I thought this was just going to be 4-6 of the best tournaments. Start adding the extra gas, hotel stays, food, extra vacation days for all of the travel, and the entry fees to pay for the awards. Are you seriously going to try and have a Salina weekend, every weekend? That's what is nice about Salina, it is a tough tournament once a year. Get out your wallets boys, if you pay enough you could buy earn win some fabulous prizes. How is this helping Kansas Wrestling?