What do they wrestle in the Olympics? That should be reason enough to do Freestyle and Greco. That is what makes it important. Most college scholarships go to Freestyle wrestlers.

your right but what percentage of wrestlers actually make the olympics. now what percentage of highschool wrestlers advance on to college wrestling. All im saying is those of you that keep saying there will be no credability to the series cause its made up. well somebody made up the triple crown and if your going to knock the credability of the series which is in the middle of folkstyle season where the best wrestlers are then how can you not knock freestyle which is after the season when half the kids are done and not wrestling. I would like to try freestyle and greco but not the way its set up now. maybe i can convince my son into not playing baseball in the future and give it a whirl.

You just have to see what happens to kids that wrestle Freestyle and Greco in the summer. I'll give one example, and there are many more like him:

Bradley Little, Derby, who probably has no idea who I am, was borderline fish not too many years ago. I remember watching this red headed kid out there taking his lumps at every FS GR tourney I went to. But he kept coming back. These last few years he has emerged as one of the top tier kids in the state. If Bradley is out there reading this, I hope he doesn't take offense to the fish comment. All kids have been there at some point, I use h im as an example because he proves that it is "never too late".

The physicality, the technique, the grueling, "if there is no action we start over" facet, is paying off huge dividends for him, and many others, including my son. If you have a kid that has a problem with "roughing people up", have him wrestle FS GR, and his whole style will change. Have him "survive" a trip to Schoolboy, Cadet, or Junior duals, or Fargo, and he will feel so much better about himself, knowing that he is making himself better, whether he is winning or losing his FS GR matches.

There are several great FS GR clubs around town, so being close to one isn't an issue, at least in the Wichita area.

I agree Doug. Isn't it funny how we need to do something to improve Kansas wrestling, but the answer can't be to get involved with Freestyle and Greco. The answer must be...A Series. Why is the series the answer? Because there is no real sacrifice. The kid doesn't have to dedicate more time into the sport. They just need to go to different tournaments, tougher tournaments. Yes that will make them champions. Not wrestling in the summer that would cut into baseball and @#$%^!ball.

If you want to get better you have to Freestyle. This is Jake's first year and he loves it. He is playing baseball on a traveling team also. It can be done....it just depends on how badly you want to make it work.

We do need to keep in mind that not all kids are going to wrestle to become great at it. Some parents have their kids wrestle for the life lessons. Nothing wrong with that. But the problem comes when those parents want their kids recognized for "just wrestling". Wrestling is a great sport for your kid to participate in, but obviously it is a lot funner, like any sport, when you win. However it is whole lot LESS FUN when you lose than other sports. I want us to find ways to get more k ids to participate, which increases our chances of finding that kid, who may not have wrestled, that turns into a stud. But like Chad says, let's not create awards for kids that haven't paid their dues. In ANY sport, there are going to be the top tier kids, middle tier kids, and lower tier kids. Don't create awards that make the lower tier kids feel like middle tier kids, or awards that make m iddle tier kids feel like top tier kids. Call the awards what they are, as they are.

Yes, I'm sure it can work also, but as Scott said, the kids need time to be kids as well. In the smaller communities, sometimes the baseball team has to have you on the team every practice and game because without you they don't have enough for a team. Same with all the other "team" sports. And the problem with "it just depends on how badly you want to make it work" is (not saying you) that in a lot of cases, the parent wants it a lot more "badly" that the kid. Again, Scott said it best, the kids need time to be kids."

ok so you take a kid who may wrestle 6-8 months of folkstyle and then you take a kid who wrestles 4 months of folkstyle and 2 months of freestyle and greco. which is better for they type of wrestling they will be doing in highschool and to get a college scholarship. somebody made up the award for the triple crown didnt they. it didnt just jump out there on its own. so while you dump on this series thing and try to make freestyle and greco out to be something more than it is I really dont think it has any more credability than the series. half the kids arent doing it while the series would be during the season and with all the normal kids involved. Like I said im not knocking freestyle and greco im knocking the fact that you guys keep saying the series is just another award and has no credability. same can be said about freestyle and greco triple crowns. I hope in the future my kid decides to do it but for me I have 4 other kids to put into that equation and other sports so the way its set up now I see no way for that to happen and find time for my kid to be a kid.

Just know that I think doing FS/GR year in and year out is more important to someone wanting to be the best or go wrestle at the college level then anything else.

FYI...
We tried freestyle a few years back and did not like the club and at the time there was nothing else close to us. Then my son got the baseball bug. I would do it differently but it is what makes him happy.
I dont know what it would take to promote FS GR more in this state. But I do think a series would promote folkstyle.
And its not something I am just making up. Its something already being done SUCCESSFULLY elsewhere and I thought we could use that template and add a little KS to it and make it even better. MAYBE I AM WRONG!


I think YOU were the one that said kids dont need to wrestle the best every weekend...
If the series worked like it was intended then you would be wrestling the best of the best every weekend, you would have to dedicate more time to the sport to stay on top and ALL of that is considered sacrifice!

Scott I don't think anybody is dumping on this series thing they are just saying Kansas folksyle wrestling is fine without it but we need to grow kansas freesyle and greco wrestling. Time after time on this forum you have said how you want Kansas to be dominant on the National Scene and growing our freestyle and greco programs in this state is a big part of getting to and or staying at that level. Winning a state title in one style is a big accomplishment winning all three styles is huge and deserves to be recognized.

can we all agree to disagree on views and whys and let this go for time being. sometimes when one is in the mud its not the best thing to keep spinning the tires

WE ALL KNOW, SUMMER WRESTLING MAKES WINTER CHAMPIONS. what i find really funny here is that you are so close minded to think that, THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. there are alot of different things that go into making a champion. there isn't alot of fs here in sek, when there is it's not very organized. doug hitchcock and i have talked about opening the room on sudays, just to roll around and keep wrestling in their heads.

but it's funny how chad brings up $$$, when in the summer when most kids play baseball, it is fs and greco that take the "extra/ unplanned" $$$. yet trying to do something "in season" is ridiculous.

IT'S ALL IN THE SPIRIT OF COMPETITION. it's kinda funny how things are different with different sports, in ark city they are the top in wrestling and believe the only way, is the way they know. i used to be the same way with football, if you wanted a football state championship ANY CLASS you had to beat a sek team to do it. heck even PSU was better in the day than k-state/ ku. now i see things differently, things have shifted, football as a whole has changed. we wrestled to be in better football shape. now we wrestle to compete, to win state championships, we seek out the best and test ourselves. just like we used to in football. BUT THAT ALONE IS SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH ANYMORE. we played 5a (equal to 6a in ks) teams in missouri for about 2-3 games a year, before we played any ks teams. we beat ark city on the way to one of our state championships, they were the only ks team outside of the sek to come close. that simply isn't good enough anymore. things have been tough for football teams here in the sek for a few years.

my point is you have to continue to grow and look for ways to improve. there no other way. no one has ALL the answers. i'm so glad, there is alot of passion on this subject, as well as many others.

your right darren. in the sense that I want to be on top. Im not convinced that freestyle and greco is better than wrestling more folkstyle though. Like I have said before I will continue to do what I have already done. If the series happens I will do it to. If they ever decide to move freestyle and greco up a little bit I might even give that a try to. If not then I will continue to practice folkstyle the way we have been.

I think it is more important to grow partcipation in FS GR than it is to create another award for folkstyle.

Just to give an example, and not to bag on middle school duals, because that is a great tool for our kids: You go to Schoolboy duals, Cadet Duals, Junior duals, and Fargo, and you see the BEST OF THE BEST. There are more STUDS at those FS GR duals than there are at the middle school duals, which is folkstyle. The reason is that a lot of states are ALREADY doing FS GR while we are still having our state folkstyle tourney series.

It is what lifting weights is to football. FS GR makes you a better folkstyle wrestler.

Again, let's do things to get better numbers in FS GR, we do not need to do anything to increase the number of awards for folkstyle wrestling.

Now Doug those states that are doing fs and gr are they starting earlier than we are for folkstyle. If not then why are we finishing so late and not starting fs and gr earlier like they are. Are those states that are doing that beating our kids at the national level. If so then I agree lets get the kids state over and done with the week before highschool state and lets get fs and gr started and finished earlier. I dont think fs and gr make folkstyle better more so than wrestling folkstyle the entire time. I dont rule out fs and gr but it would have to change for alot of kids to get started in it.

Scott-In answer to your question wrestling Freestyle will make you a better folkstyle wrestler, than simply wrestling more folkstyle. Freestyle wrestling teaches you a much better awareness of your body and amps up your ability to wrestle at a higher level. My son went up several levels when he started wrestling freestyle. If you ask him it's the #1 reason he is good at folkstyle. It teaches a different awareness and attitude. Plus it doesn't hurt that he starts off almost every match ahead 2-0 in folkstyle because freestyle has made him very tough on his feet. The final thing freestyle teaches to folkstyle kids is creativity. Watch any good freestyler scramble or get out of a tough situation. It's much different and very effective.

JMO

thanks badbo I will keep that in mind when they move the season up a month or so. Im glad there are so many people getting involved in this topic and it has been a good one and views from lots of different angles. It would be interesting to see if the state voted on how many kids would actually do fs and gr if the moved the season up and made room for it and not have to go an extra month. I know my son would be there and I can think of an entire club that would be there. Just a little hint.

fs & gr is fun if people would just try it. My sons play baseball & wrestle fs & greco for the last 5 years. you dont have to go to every tournament just hit a few & state. But the important thing is practice fs & gr. It gives the kids new things to practice. It helps aviod burnout by practicing different techniques, most can be used in folkstyle. It keeps kid on the mat longer. To say that fr & gr does not help a wrestler in folkstyle is just wrong. Again this is just a personal opinion, but seeing is beliveing. I see many fr & gr wrestlers during the season & they are very successful in folkstyle. Leave the ks season the way it is we dont need to be like oklahoma. I agree that more awards is not going to help.

Shortening Folkstyle season has been talked about for years, but it never happens.

Don't take offense to this, but it almost sounds like you are talking yourself happy about the path you are taking your kid down. I've done the same thing, only to figure out later I should have listened to advice that I ignored. I am not saying you are wrong about letting him play baseball/ letting him be a kid. The relaxed atmosphere at FS GR practice will not burn him out. The relaxed atmosphere at the tourneys will not burn him out. You wrestle what you weigh, so for most kids, the weight management is taken out of it. The stakes increase at state, Southern Plains, but most certainly at the duals and Fargo, which your son is a long ways away from. I AM saying you are wrong about FS GR not helping folkstyle. And I understand why you might feel that way, because you haven't seen what it has done to kids that you have followed for years like myself and many others have. I can also point to MANY HS kids that, going into HS, you would have sworn were locks to win a state title, or multiple state titles, that may have gotten complacent, and didn't do FS GR, and left their senior years without that state title that looked so achievable when they entered HS.

I was stating that those for the serires don't want to put in more time (summer wrstling). The series people just think going to tougher tournamnents is the answer. I do not think the best should wrestle each other every weekend. It is too much for these kids.