http://salem.momslikeme.com/members/JournalActions.aspx?g=503488&m=947756&source=stream_rail

215 posts
by 1son on Oct 12, 2010 at 02:07 PM

Be sure to read the second paragraph. Amazing!

Appropriate Age for Competitive Sports

My son is only 8 and I cant says has competed in any "true competitive" sports. He has played basball for 2 years, basketball for 2 years and in his 3rd year of football (tackle 2years). While we are finding that most leagues are not competitive yet he tends to make them way himself. He is always asking about winning and losig and if we dont tell him he figures it out. We have talked to him after each game for all sports about what needs to improve on both teams and what each team and him did right. Always end it on the positives.

OH I was wrong I guess he did do Karate semi competitive from age 4 to 6.5 but we dropped that after he started other sports and had a very bad experience at a tournament. He was sparing and in a level with older and high belt kids then him - doing very well until they had some issues with him competing on the high lever and tried to pull him out (because he was winning) - director came over and told them to let him continue as he was doing ok and when he left the "judges" started to make bad and incorrect calls that cost him the win. No I am not a biased mom on this I have video to prove it. We were told after "based on this video he won" however we are not going to change the calls or overturn any of the placings. Left a very bad taste for my child as he came away crying saying that "they called a hit and he didnt touch me and i hit him but they ignored it. Why Mom" what could we say ????

At the request of: SFGD

I have only included portions of research and some articles and the links to the entire article to help educate parents, coaches,
and administrators. Anyone who cares how we develope kids from recreational to competitive athletes may read this inormation. There is no doubt my goal is and has been to grow the sport of USA Kansas Wrestling and on to KSHSAA HS wrestling. These 4,5 & 6 year kids - their time will come soon enough for a shot at a State Title. They have 7-10 more years before they reach High School - So some of them will have a shot at 11 to 12 folkstyle state titles if they start the state championship series at 7.

I have provided information below if you would like to be informed. People say who cares - I do!


Foundations of sport and exercise psychology
http://books.google.com/books?id=5oVkn20...rts&f=false

By Robert Stephen Weinberg, Daniel Gould


Part VII Starts on Page 514


Facilitating Psychological Growth and Development






Athletic & Psychological Perspectives for Young Players
http://www.trenton.k12.nj.us/Columbus/coyne/athletic.htm

Posted on Wednesday, February 12 @ 17:28:05 EST
From: Childhood To Champion Athlete, by Tudor Bompa

The first experience in a sport is critical for the ongoing development of any athlete. If the experience is positive, the child will likely continue participating. If the experience is negative, the young participant may drop out of the sport, and lose interest in physical activity.

Many children now have their first sporting experience in organized competition. Children, as young as four years of age, often participate in structured leagues, or Mini Soccer tournaments where there are formalized rules and referees, official team kits, and winning is the primary objective.

There is a great deal of support, from a variety of adults, for organized competitive sports for children. Many individuals believe that it is important for children to experience winning and losing, and that organized sports provide a forum for children to develop values and skills that will help them later in life. Although there is some merit to this perspective, there are many psychological demands on children, which can have an adverse effect on their growth and development, and may prevent potential world champions from optimally developing their talent.

This article will address some of the controversial issues surrounding highly organized competitive sports programs for children.


PUTTING WINNING INTO PERSPECTIVE
Children love to compete!

This is a known fact for anyone in child education, including physical education and sports. The influence of sports on their daily lives is profound. Children are greatly influenced by their coach, who often may become their role model, as well as by top athletes in their sport, who are their heroes. Therefore, the influence sports have on children is not to be taken lightly.

Children are very athletically minded, and as such, many of them participate in sports. According to recent studies on the topic, 45% of 10 year olds participate in sports! However, as they grow older, almost half of them drop out of sports (at the age of 18 only 26% stay active).

One of the most frequently asked questions about children and sport is:

"To be a world champion, is it important to win a lot during childhood?" The answer is, 'NO'.

To expect potential world champions to be winners from an early age, is like expecting a business to be extremely profitable from its first month of operation.

Similarly to business, if a solid foundation is not developed during early years, the chances of being successful for a long period of time are drastically reduced. If winning is emphasized, there is much more likelihood that a solid foundation will not be developed, and that children will experience a variety of problems, both physical and psychological. Top

THE PROBLEMS WITH WINNING
Discrimination Against Late Maturing Children

what is wrong with you smoke? dang i listened to you for the first few pages, but whe you got here to page five... "your not helping them, your hurting them!"

Are we losing kids at a faster rate on the older end even though our numbers show we are gaining them on the younger end.

I did a quick look at the 2000 & 2009 District 1 State tournament series.

At the District 1 tournament in 2000 we had 164 participants
in that same series in 2009 we had 147 in the 14 and under division.

For the same time periods 2000 & 2009 at the District 1 tournament in the 16 & under division we had 145 participants in 2000 and we had 115 in 2009.

The number of brackets in 2000 14 & U had 23 and in 2009 14 & Under had 23 brackets

In 2000 16 & under had 20 brackets and in 2009 it had 18 brackets.

Note: In 2000 the 14 & U 70 pound bracket had no wrestlers and the 16 & U 95 pound bracket had no wrestlers.

I guess I just do not understand it if we are adding more kids at younger ages but our numbers are declining on the upper end.

Will and I both want the sport to grow - we just disagree on how to grow the sport.

Total state USA Kanas Kids Wrestlers in 2002 & 2009

These are the years I could find on totals. I excluded 2009/2010 because we adder over 16 years old last year.

2009 - 8,861
2002 - 7,623

Therein lies the question. How much does burnout, due to 6U participation, contribute to the declining 15 and over divison? In my opinion there are several other reasons that have a greater impact.

I think more kids are wrestling other "tougher" National tournaments in the 14 and 16 division, instead of State. Another factor is that society as a whole is not as tough. If it is hard or the kid is not winning, the parents and the kids just quit.

Oh good SFGD has got his public relations department involved. Chief you are confusing recreational 6 & Under particiaption and learning vs competitve and a state championship series. I am still waiting on the simple data request.

Amazing. I can't even comment on this thread without being marginalized as his PR department. That's one way to deflect criticism. Adding the state series to the question doesn't change the answer.

True!

That data is anything but simple. The subjectivity of it alone will make your head spin.

One more factor in the decline of the older groups. Kids have other interests at that age. Girls, other sports, relaxing because they just finished the High School Season, vacations with the family, or maybe a kids title is just not that inviting to them. Burn out from wrestling when you are 5 and 6 will not change these other factors.

The data is coming in Sean. Write these down!

Thanks Chief - it is coming in. I am up to Missouri 11 states that do not offer a 6 & Under state tournament and only 4 states do offer 6 & under state. Some states have a tournament with no qualifiers and they call it a state tournament/open tournaments.

Arizona Wrestler
No 6 & Under
The Arizona chapter of USA Wrestling is starting a Folkstyle wrestling league starting the 1st weekend in October-January. The schedule will include at least ten folkstyle tournaments around the state and a state tournament. The age groups will include Bantam-Schoolboy. During October the age groups will also include Cadets & Juniors. In January, we will have a AZ USA Folkstyle State tournament for age groups Bantam-Schoolboy.


California USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under at State
Bantam | Bantam Girls | Intermediate | Intermediate Girls | Novice | Novice Girls | Middle School | Middle School Girls


Colorado
Colorado USA Wrestling
No 6 & Undert They follow USA Wrestling National Weights


Connecticut USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State tournament
• 2/28/2010 - State Championships
o Middle School
o Novice
o Intermediate
Florida Amateur Wrestling Assn
FLORIDA TOURNAMENTS: Feature ALL AGE GROUPS unless otherwise noted on the event posting. Pee-Wee (5-6 years old), Bantam 7-8 years old, Intermediate (9-10 years old), Novice (11-12 years old), Schoolboy-girl (13-14 years old), Cadet (15-16 years old), Junior (grades 9-12th), Junior Women (grades 9-12th), Senior-Open (18 years of age and older).

AGE DIVISIONS: 6yrs & Under, 8 yrs and Under, 10yrs & Under, 12yrs & Under, 14yrs & Under, High School Div. and Open


Georgia USA Wrestling
Georgia Does Offer 6 & Under State

Illinois
Illinois USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State – They follow USA Wrestling Age & Weight


Indiana USA Wrestling

Yes 6 & Under State
2010 Folkstyle State Finals Results
Pee-Wee/Novice
Pee-Wee (77) - Bantam (210) - Intermediate (263) - Novice (293)
Total Participants = 863


Iowa Wrestling Federation
No 6 & Under
Iowa Kids State Folkstyle Championship
March 27-28, 2010


2010 AAU KIDS STATE PLACEWINNERS

A GROUP (3RD & 4TH GRADE)

B GROUP (5TH & 6TH GRADE)

C GROUP (7TH & 8TH GRADE)



Louisiana USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State

Maine Amateur Wrestling Alliance
No 6 & Under State
Massachusetts USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State

Michigan USA Wrestling
Open Tournament No Qualifiers
One State Wrestling Tournament for all of the 7 different youth, grade school and Jr high school leagues/associations in Michigan. No memberships required. No qualifiers required. Open to any Michigan resident.


Minnesota USA Wrestling
Yes 6 & Under State Tournament

Missouri
Missouri USA Wrestling
State Brackets

No 6 & Under
8 & Under Brackets
10 & Under Brackets
12 & Under Brackets
14 & Under Brackets
Note: Missouri has an open tournament in Saint Joe


New Mexico Junior Wrestling


New York Wrestling
North Carolina USA Wrestling
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Oklahoma Amateur Wrestling
Oklahoma High School Wrestling
Pennsylvania Youth Wrestling
Rhode Island Wrestling Assn
South Carolina Wrestling
Texas USA Wrestling
Tennessee Wrestling Federation
Virginia Wrestling
Washington State Wrestler
West Virginia
Wisconsin Wrestling

Out of this list of 30 states 20 (66%) states do not offer a 6 & under state. The other 10 states that do offer a 6 & under state tournament - for the most part they are an open tournament - anyone can sign up there is no qualifying series. If you add Kansas in that is 21 out of 31. I need to look up New Jersey, Ohio and a few other states still.



Arizona Wrestler
No 6 & Under
The Arizona chapter of USA Wrestling is starting a Folkstyle wrestling league starting the 1st weekend in October-January. The schedule will include at least ten folkstyle tournaments around the state and a state tournament. The age groups will include Bantam-Schoolboy. During October the age groups will also include Cadets & Juniors. In January, we will have a AZ USA Folkstyle State tournament for age groups Bantam-Schoolboy.


California USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under at State
Bantam | Bantam Girls | Intermediate | Intermediate Girls | Novice | Novice Girls | Middle School | Middle School Girls


Colorado
Colorado USA Wrestling
No 6 & Undert They follow USA Wrestling National Weights


Connecticut USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State tournament
• 2/28/2010 - State Championships
o Middle School
o Novice
o Intermediate
Florida Amateur Wrestling Assn
FLORIDA TOURNAMENTS: Feature ALL AGE GROUPS unless otherwise noted on the event posting. Pee-Wee (5-6 years old), Bantam 7-8 years old, Intermediate (9-10 years old), Novice (11-12 years old), Schoolboy-girl (13-14 years old), Cadet (15-16 years old), Junior (grades 9-12th), Junior Women (grades 9-12th), Senior-Open (18 years of age and older).

AGE DIVISIONS: 6yrs & Under, 8 yrs and Under, 10yrs & Under, 12yrs & Under, 14yrs & Under, High School Div. and Open


Georgia USA Wrestling
Georgia Does Offer 6 & Under State

Illinois
Illinois USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State – They follow USA Wrestling Age & Weight


Indiana USA Wrestling

Yes 6 & Under State
2010 Folkstyle State Finals Results
Pee-Wee/Novice
Pee-Wee (77) - Bantam (210) - Intermediate (263) - Novice (293)
Total Participants = 863


Iowa Wrestling Federation
No 6 & Under
Iowa Kids State Folkstyle Championship
March 27-28, 2010


2010 AAU KIDS STATE PLACEWINNERS

A GROUP (3RD & 4TH GRADE)

B GROUP (5TH & 6TH GRADE)

C GROUP (7TH & 8TH GRADE)



Louisiana USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State

Maine Amateur Wrestling Alliance
No 6 & Under State
Massachusetts USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State

Michigan USA Wrestling
Open Tournament No Qualifiers
One State Wrestling Tournament for all of the 7 different youth, grade school and Jr high school leagues/associations in Michigan. No memberships required. No qualifiers required. Open to any Michigan resident.


Minnesota USA Wrestling
Yes 6 & Under State Tournament

Missouri
Missouri USA Wrestling
State Brackets

No 6 & Under
8 & Under Brackets
10 & Under Brackets
12 & Under Brackets
14 & Under Brackets
Note: Missouri has an open tournament in Saint Joe

Nebraska USA Wrestling
Nebraska – Does offer a 6 & Under PreK-K division – No qualifier (Open tournament)


New Mexico Junior Wrestling
No 6 & Under State Tournament


New York Wrestling
No 6 & Under State Tournament
Kids Grades 5-8
JV 9-10
High School

North Carolina USA Wrestling -
Yes 6 & Under Tournament – Open tournament
No Qualifier for state tournament
Pairings Done for youth – just grouped

North Dakota
No 6 & Under State Tournament

Oklahoma
Oklahoma Amateur Wrestling
Yes 6 & Under State Tournament – Not sure if their Regional’s are a qualifier or if it is an open tournament.


Pennsylvania Youth Wrestling
No 6 & Under State Tournament


Rhode Island Wrestling Assn
No 6 & Under State


South Carolina Wrestling
No 6 & Under State Tournament

Texas USA Wrestling
No 6 & Under State Tournament

Tennessee Wrestling Federation
No 6 & Under State Tournament





Virginia Wrestling - They offer an open state tournament with grades K-3rd in one division in the fall.
Weights by Division:
K – 3rd weights: 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 68, 72, 76, 80 and over 80.

http://www.virginiawrestling.com/


Washington State Yes 6 & Under Open Tournament – No Qualifier
AGE GROUPS & WEIGHTS: January 1, 2011, a 2-Pound weight allowance applies to all wrestlers in the 15, 18, & OPEN DIVISION ONLY.
(Example: 83 lbs can weigh 85 lbs) (18 & Under Division for K-12 RMN Events: If you're a sophomore in high school & wrestle on the high school team, JV or Varsity, you should enter the high school 18 & Under - division)
6 & Under – Wrestlers born in 2004 or later
37, 40, 43, 46, 49, 52, 55, 61, 74, Max
8 & Under – Wrestlers born in 2002 or 2003
42, 46, 50, 54, 58, 62, 66, 70, 74, 78, 87 MAX
10 & Under – Wrestlers born in 2000 or 2001
49,53,57,61,65,69,73,77,81,85,89,100,113 MAX
12 & Under – Wrestlers born in 1998 or 1999 (62 lbs will be added if we get enough entrees)
66, 70, 74, 78, 82, 86, 90, 98, 106, 114, 122, 130, 146, 165, 186 Max
15 & Under – (No sophomore high school wrestlers allowed inthe 15 & Under : I f you're a sophomoreyou must wrestle in the 18&Under)
15&UnderDivision Wrestlers born in 1995, 1996 or1997
78,83, 88, 95,102,109,116,123,130,137,144,151,158,172,186,200,250 Max
18 & Under – Born in 1992, 1993 or 1994
103,112, 119,125,130,135,140,145,152,160,171,189,215,285Max

Open Division – Born in 1991 or earlier (If you are not in high school and are not eligible to wrestle due to age, you must enter the Open Division)
125, 133, 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184, 197, 215, 285Max




West Virginia
No 6 & Under – Bantam – youngest age group

Wisconsin Wrestling

No 6 & Under State - Bantam – youngest age group

2010 Junior Dual Freestyle Results -

1) - Illinois -No 6 & Under State
2) - Iowa - No 6 & Under State
3) - Ohio - No 6 & Under State Tournament
4) - Wisconsin - No 6 & Under State
5) - Minnesota - Yes 6 & Under State (I believe they have qualifiers)
6) - Michigan - Yes 6 & Under State - Open Tournament
7) - New Jersey - No 6 & Under State Tournament
8) - Kansas - No 6 & Under State

Cadet Duals 2010

1) Minnesota - Yes 6 & under State
(I believe they have qualifiers)
2) Illinois - No 6 & Under State
3) Pennsylvannia - No 6 & Under State
4) Iowa - No 6 & Under State
5) Missouri - No 6 & Under State
6) Michigan - Yes 6 & Under State - Open tournament no qualifiers
7) New Jersey - No 6 & Under State Tournament
8) California - No 6 & under State

Add Ohio, New Jersey and Kansas to the list above and that makes 23 out of 33 states on the list. Again it is important to remember that many of the states that do offer a 6 & under state division it is a 1 tournament open tournament and they do not have qualifers. I did not cherry pick which states do or do not offer a 6 & under state. I did some research from the list of states on the Kansas website - and I'll check on the other states not listed.

New Jersey – No 6 & Under State tournament –
http://www.usawnj.org/2010.htm
Ohio – http://secure.ohioathletics.com/ogs10/results09.lasso
No six and under state tournament

Division I

Weight classes 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 75

________________________________________
Division II
Weight classes 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 85, 105

________________________________________
Division III
Weight classes 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 100, 115, 140

________________________________________
Division IV
Weight classes 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 160

Schoolboy/Girl Freestyle Results
Team Score
Freestyle Championships Results
1st Place - Pennsylvania Blue - No 6 & Under STate
2nd Place - Team Washington - Yes 6 & Under no Qualifier Open tournament
3rd Place - Minnesota Gold - Yes 6 & Under they have a qualifier
4th Place - Team Missouri - No 6 & Under State
5th Place - Team Wisconsin - No 6 & Under State
6th Place - Team New Jersey - No 6 & Unde State
7th Place - Indiana Gold - Yes 6 & Under State - I believe they have a qualifier
8th Place - Illinois - No six and Under State

This data does not prove one way or the other if 6U State is a good idea or not. All it is stating is that they don't have it. Kansas does not have it yet. Does that mean we are making a step in the direction of progress if we vote for it? Only one way to find out, vote it in and try it.

There are alot of 6U wrestlers in the states that you are using for data. Look at the Tulsa entries from the past. Everyone of those States is represented in the 6U ranks at this National Tournament.

Voting for 6U state is a step in the right direction.

Only 12 (10%) out of 120 high school seniors that have verbally committed to a colleges next year are from states that offer a 6 & under state championship. Just collecting data and trying to be objective. If it were the other way around 110 out of 120 HS seniors were from states that offer 6 & under then the proposal may have some teeth. Or even 40 out of 120.