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#173780 - 10/25/10 09:07 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
Beeson. I vote yes if they get tp join us in Topeka and those 6 unders that choose can skip 6 under and go 8 under. You got some boys on your team that exemplify what I am talking about with the 6 unders.

Mike pirl

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#173781 - 10/25/10 09:18 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
dagwood Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 264
We simply do not have the room to add them to the state tournament in Topeka and if you give them the option to bump up you would have to give this opportunity to all. There are elite wrestlers at all age groups that could compete if they bumped up. This proposal is good middle ground. My vote is yes.
_________________________
Darren Newton

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#173782 - 10/25/10 09:23 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: dagwood]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
We don't have the room for kids that practice with the club everyday all year long but we do have room for the highschoolers that practice wig the club for two weeks. Seems backwards to me.

Mike Pirl

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#173783 - 10/25/10 10:06 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: dagwood]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
We don't have the room for kids that practice with the club everyday all year long but we do have room for the highschoolers that practice wig the club for two weeks. Seems backwards to me.

Mike Pirl

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#173784 - 10/25/10 10:26 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
Cokeley Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 3812
Loc: Lawrence, KS
What are the parents who think they need to bump up from 6U to 8U hoping to acoomplish by doing so? Just curious...
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

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#173786 - 10/25/10 10:46 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: Cokeley]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
I know that some 6 year olds have the talent To be wrestling the 8 unders competitively. Now that being the case I think that it says something about the parents that want to move their kids up and have harder matches instead of just walking through the 6 under division. We all know that there are the instant naturals in this sport and those that need more time. So I just honk the accomplishment would be to give some more 6 unders a shot at winning and growing.

Mike pir

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#173787 - 10/25/10 10:54 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
Cokeley Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 3812
Loc: Lawrence, KS
What does it prove if a 6U can wrestle 8U competitively? For every "instant talent" there are 99 regular kids. I really don't think there will be any long term gain or loss to any 6U wrestler's potential if they wrestle within their age group, for the state tournament series, just like everyone else does. If they are dominating then make them work on different aspects of wrestling. Single legs, double legs, duck under, high c, cut the other wrestler, work on tilts, work on reversals, work on escapes, use it as a learning opportunity. Bump them up in open tournaments, take them to bigger tournaments, but even the most talented 6U will not be handicapped by wrestling inferior competition at this age for the state tournament series. Before you know it he will be a FR in high school on the mat with a senior and you will get to see how he does against older, more experienced competition.
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

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#173788 - 10/25/10 11:02 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: Cokeley]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
Just so I can understand this correctly. Work on different moves and cut him so that we can totally humiliate the other wrestlers. I never stated that there was any longterm achievement for them to wrestle up I said it gives other kids a chance to win and grow. I also never said that they would be handicapped in any way but since you brought it up don't you travel the country to get the best competition you can for your kids. I know that I do win or lose.

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#173789 - 10/25/10 11:06 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
I say have a novice state with 6-8-10-12 under and keep state as it is. Two years of experience and under. If you wrestle novice state you can't wrestle regular state. 6 unders can skip it and wrestle up if they want to.

Mike Pirl

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#173792 - 10/25/10 11:26 PM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
Cokeley Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 3812
Loc: Lawrence, KS
There is no formal proposal for a OFFICIAL Novice State. We are working on clarifying a definition for NOVICE. If you felt so strongly about your stance why didn't you write up a proposal and submit it to the Executive Director as the Bylaws state?

The current proposal to be voted on may not be perfect but it is definitely offers some opportunity for some positive changes to the existing situation.

Being tech falled is not humiliating, it is a loss and just another learning experience. More time on the mat is better for both unless the coach/dad ridicules his wrestler after the match. Teach your wrestler to find positive in every match.

I don't know if I can stress enough that it is important to teach your kids how to fall in love with the sport not winning.
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

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#173793 - 10/26/10 12:08 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: Cokeley]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
I can gaurantee that my kid loves the sport. Winning and losing are part of this sport and also need to be addressed. How has there been no clarification or definition for novice wrestling? I'm no expert but 2 years and under with the stipulation that if you place in an open tournament with a full 8 man bracket you novice eligibility is over. Also if you win 3 novice tournaments with 8 man brackets your novice eligibility is over. Finally if neither of those things happen at the beginning of you third year your novice eligibility is over.

Mike Pirl

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#173794 - 10/26/10 12:16 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
I forgot to answer the proposal thing. I did not write a proposal to submit to anyone. I never thought about writing a proposal to anyone but I guess if you get involved in a conversation on this forum you re supposed to write a proposal to someone. Just because I have an opinion does not mean I have got to propose it to someone. I was just carrying on a conversation. Did you ever think that being crass to everyone that doesn't have the exact same idea as you is just counter-productive. Probably not because you believe that you and you alone can " fix " Kansas wrestling.

Mike pirl

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#173795 - 10/26/10 12:50 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
BLT Offline
Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 934
Mike other then the really low weights can you give me examples of where a 6U has placed in the top 4 at 8U state???

I think we are going to see one or more of these things happen:
I think the 6U thing will pass...
I think we are going to see below avg turnout in the the HS division at state. Those super match ups we all want to see will be few and far between. Alot of the studs will be committed to a college and dont want to risk injury.
Then I think you will see the HS division replaced by the 6U division at our kids state tournament.

IMO.. this is progression in our sport and we need to get behind it and support it!

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#173796 - 10/26/10 12:59 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: BLT]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
The progression that this is moving towards is reducing our entire season to ending in February. I'm not completely opposed to this idea I just think that the 6 under should be included in topeka with the rest of their club that they train with the whole season. All the talk about retention and we exclude them to their own tournament and shorten their season. What does it say when we take high-schoolers with us and leave the 6 unders at home.

Mike Pirl.

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#173798 - 10/26/10 01:44 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: smokeycabin]
Cokeley Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 3812
Loc: Lawrence, KS
2010 2010 - HS 2009 2009 - 16
North 1 569 109 468 70
South 1 632 102 597 98
North 2 557 136 460 70
South 2 454 60 448 49
East 3 418 64 368 41
West 3 460 59 433 48
North 4 428 58 372 56
South 4 469 58 426 34
3987 646 3572 466

In 2010 we saw an increase of 415 wrestlers at the subdistrict tournaments. 180 of the 415 were in the HS division over the previous year's 16U competitors.

I think the HS division offers and opportunity for kids who were not on varsity, who didn't make it to HS state, or who just want to extend their season a few weeks. A large number of the elite level competitors will attend NHSCA Nationals and begin preparing for FS/GR season.

I believe someone stated that changing the 16U to HS was not a successful change. Almost a 39% increase. I don't know about most of you but I would take a 39% increase in my business ANY year!
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

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#173799 - 10/26/10 02:36 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: bubbasmom77]
sportsfan02 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 2642
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: bubbasmom77
I'm not completely opposed to this idea I just think that the 6 under should be included in topeka with the rest of their club that they train with the whole season. All the talk about retention and we exclude them to their own tournament and shorten their season. What does it say when we take high-schoolers with us and leave the 6 unders at home.

Like it or not, Topeka is going to be split in the very near future. As others have said it will be because Topeka can't handle our group without gouging us at the hotels. I on the other hand, want to see it split for a different reason. I believe at that level of competition every competitor deserves a large surface on which to wrestle and that a half mat should be the minimum with a whole mat as the goal.
_________________________

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#173801 - 10/26/10 06:08 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: sportsfan02]
smokeycabin Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 4103
Loc: Shawnee Kansas
Why does our National governing body - USA Wrestling use these weights and ages for tournament CHAMPIONSHIP series? I am sure they have have lots experience, knowledge, and discussion on establishing the age a weight divisions for championship series wrestling.

USA Wrestling
2010 AGE DIVISIONS and WEIGHT CLASSES
http://themat.com/forms/Weights.pdf


USA Wrestling is the National Governing Body for the Sport of Wrestling
Our Mission, Vision & Values

USA Wrestling is the National Governing Body for the Sport of Wrestling in the United States and, as such, is its representative to the United States Olympic Committee. Simply, USA Wrestling is the central organization that coordinates amateur wrestling programs in the nation and works to create interest and participation in these programs.

USA Wrestling has more than 160,000 members. These members include athletes of all ages, coaches, officials, parents and fans striving together to strengthen the sport. Each year, USA Wrestling charters over 3000 wrestling clubs and sanctions over 1600 local, state, regional and national competitions.

Mission: USA Wrestling, guided by the Olympic Spirit, provides quality opportunities for its members to achieve their full human and athletic potential.

Vision: USA Wrestling will strive to be the worlds best sports organization.

Values
Responsibility - Fulfilling all functions, tasks, duties and assignments with trust and credibility on behalf of USA Wrestling by honoring promises and pledges.
Integrity - Being true to self and the mission of USA Wrestling, while discerning right from wrong and acting on it.
Dedication - Dedication to carrying out the mission and goals of USA Wrestling with the highest degree of sacrifice and discipline.
Honesty - Being truthful and upright with people and issues in furthering the mission of USA Wrestling.
Accountability - Providing answers and reasons to others for actions and behaviors intended to support the mission of USA Wrestling.
Respect - Recognizing the absolute dignity in every human being, with a sense of compassion, caring and concern for the well-being of other people.


Bylaws of USA Wrestling
http://www.themat.com/forms/Bylaws.pdf

Article IX talks about State Associations

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#173802 - 10/26/10 06:26 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: sportsfan02]
ReDPloyd Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 1296
I find it a little hard to believe that there are that many U6 wrestlers in the State that are good enough to warrant having a qualifying U6 State Tournament. I understand that Ottawa has done a good job with a U6 non-qualifier State Tourney, and they have brackets that can be exceptionally large, but in these brackets, how many kids could compete at State in the U8 division?

I recognize that there are U6 wrestlers out there that just naturally have it or get it early on, and I believe that they should bump to U8 at the end of the year and see what they can do. All the others that want to compete for State hardware should continue to go to Ottawa.
_________________________
Lee Girard

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#173803 - 10/26/10 06:30 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: smokeycabin]
sportsfan02 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 2642
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
Why does our National governing body - USA Wrestling use these weights and ages for tournament CHAMPIONSHIP series?

For the same reason you might prefer your coffee with cream where others like theirs black.

Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
I am sure they have have lots experience, knowledge, and discussion on establishing the age a weight divisions for championship series wrestling.

They have no more of all of those things than our state governing body contains! Some would argue they have less.
_________________________

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#173804 - 10/26/10 06:59 AM Re: Just SAY NO to 6 & Under State Championship [Re: sportsfan02]
bubbasmom77 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 158
I wrestled in pa for 13 years without USA wrestling governing body and the state and wrestlers did just fine. 5 lb weight increments state series started at 10 under ( until last year ) and had 12 and 15 under. Wrestlers are aloud to wrestle wherever whenever ad long as no school event is taking place at the same time. USA and Kansas have too many rules ( holding ) back our wrestlers as they get older. Off subject but I also disagree with giving a weight allowance for highschool kids and not the others that are having big growth spurts. Goes back to that you can't bump up a division cause noone else can. Well you can't have a weight allowance for highscool cause noone else can.

Mike pirl

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