If you think 2 state tournaments is great try being a parent/coach of 2 kids at opposite places!!! How do you choose which to be with????
I think you should table this whole thing, get your proposals out to all the clubs so you can get feed back from the 6 and under parents. Since they are the ones affected by this and not the people argueing and name calling like 2year olds. It would be nice if our state representation would actually treaet us with respect and not be like a politician."Here is what I think so you you should too! If you don't like it tough!"

I would rather see us eliminate the H.S. division, and add the 6u division to the current series.

I know ... if I wanted to make a change, I should followed the proceedure, but this whole 6U State debate kinda caught people off guard and made us think a little.

Haven't the H.S. kids already had their regional/state tourney? I would rather see the H.S.ers take a few weeks off, then start fs/gr or start preparing for some of these national tournaments you guys have been talking about . I know the H.S. division wrestlers are still kids themselves, but to me, Kids
Wrestling is more 6U-14U. JMO

Regarding the novice definition...No way can you limit novice to two years. I know a kid who hasn't won a match in two years....not sure if he has ever wrestled 3 full periods. He doesn't go to novice tournaments because 99% are on Sunday's, but most tournaments do have more than one bracket (which could really be categorized as a novice tournament), and that's a good thing.....again JMO!!

Greg Pelland

Nobody said there would be two different tournaments on the same day/weekend! I don't forsee that ever happening. Also, other than the 6U and maybe the high school divisions I don't see there ever being a state tournament in February. Regardless of peoples wishes to move the season forward it simply isn't possible due to conflicts with other sports at each of our schools for venues to host subs and districts.
This issue of the 6U State has been around long enough that everyone should have a feel for it and there is no need to table the proposal.

First of all, the thought of two State Tourney's would be to have 6-10 be over in February. (The same time High School and Middle School end.) Then a 12-H.S. Tourney after their season. I don't think it will ever happen but I like the thought.

My thoughts on Novice. It is a nice concept, but gets abused. Most kids wrestle Novice and Open. It would be nice if it was like "the good ole days" and everyone was thrown into the mix. I know it will never go back to that but I like the thought.

Concerning 6U State. This is a NO BRAINER. Vote for 6U State. I have yet to hear what I think is a valid reason not to vote for it.

Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
SFGD – State Freestyle/Greco Director


“What doesn't support my position Sean?
Sean, you have NO arguement against this tournament proposal. You are arguing against having 6U kids involved in sports at all. That is a different debate for a different time. “

I am not opposed to 6 & under/and older novice wrestling at all - Our six and under and older novice season is generally over in Febraury after 3 months.
A) December is introduction to wrestling
B) January is continued development and a few matches & dippin dots normally Round Robin tournaments
C) February is continued development and a few matches and some more dippin dots Normally Round Robin tournaments
D) Late February and March I encourage the parents of the 6 & unders and other Novice Kids to take their kids to watch some championship wrestling (HS & Kids Subs, districts, & state) to help prepare them for the environment in the years to come.
E) we never schedule any tournaments on HS state weekend and I encourage all our kids to go watch HS State in order to prepare them for the high school environment and that level of competition - and all kids Open and Novice are encouraged to watch some championship HS wrestling at KSHSAA State.

“What doesn't support my position Sean?

1) Championship Wrestling State Series for 6 & under is the debate and the time is now.

2) USA Wrestling our National governing body’s established weight classes
USA Wrestling is the National Governing Body for the Sport of Wrestling
Our Mission, Vision & Values
Why does our National governing body - USA Wrestling use these weights and ages for tournament CHAMPIONSHIP series? I am sure they have lots experience, knowledge, and discussion on establishing the age weight divisions for championship series wrestling.

USA Wrestling
2010 AGE DIVISIONS and WEIGHT CLASSES
http://themat.com/forms/Weights.pdf




3) NWCA – National Wrestling Coaches Association • Recognition of when and how to introduce students at various ages to competition.

For those who are not familiar with the NWCA - It is the National Wrestling Coaches Association

Link: For more information
http://www.nwcaonline.com/NWCAWebSite/coachingdevelopment/recruitment.aspx


• Best practices for motivating student-wrestlers at various ages.
• Concepts for keeping wrestling “fun.”
• Ideas on how to provide student-wrestlers with constructive feedback.
• Recognition of when and how to introduce students at various ages to competition.
Link: For more information
http://www.nwcaonline.com/NWCAWebSite/coachingdevelopment/recruitment.aspx

And thank you Mr. Cokeley for calling me by my first name.

Sean McCarthy
STA Kids Club

March 4, 2008

Smokey

Good work! I didn't know those types of discussions were happening in the hospitality room. I am going to have to start listening in!

Parents of 6U: My biggest question to all of you is: What do you remember about playing sports before you turned seven years old?
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

Well I guess since USA Wrestling knows best, we should eliminate any and all competition for 6U. You can't have it both ways. Either no 6U wrestling or let them have their state tourney.

ouch.

This proposal requires further study and analysis. Multiple ideas are being presented within the forum discussion.

We can certainly all agree to disagree that this proposal needs further discussion & planning. Tabling the vote or voting NO at this time to give further study to Kansas Wrestling development is essential.

I don't see multiple ideas. I see one proposal which will be voted on. This forum is in no way a reflection of the make-up of the body or how the body would/will vote.


Nope, I can't agree! This will be at LEAST the third 6U State proposal I have voted on in my years with this organization. The last time it was voted on, D-2, of which I am a member, voted nearly unanimous in favor of 6U State. We don't need any more study, it's been studied and discussed to death! It's time to vote.

7 year old memory: We had an "Oak St Invitational" track meet and "tackle tackle" championship organized by an older boy. I still have a homemade ribbon for winning the javalin (it was a rake handle) I was the last one standing in the tackle tackle game who was not crying. So I guess I won that also.

I have a co-worker whose son is 4. He wants the boy to wrestle.
My advise was to just play with his son and spend time with him.

The vote taken at the District 2 meeting was 100% for this proposal.

In response to a recent email to a friend of mine that I read. Yes Rick is personal about 6& under. He started this tournament several years ago (I don't know how many because I am relatively new to the sport). At the time no one else wanted 6& under. He sacrificed his time and put all his effort into making a tournament to honor those young athletes that would otherwise be forced to compete in the 8 and under catagory at the state competion. He raised this competion as a parent would raise a child. Now that he has made it into a success others are wanting to swoop in and take control. Yeah I can understand why Rick is concidering this personal. I would be more concerned if he wasn't.
The kids that come to 6& under tournament are children that enjoy the sport. If they didn't come to 6& under they would be wrestling in 8& under in the actual state tournament where some of the, Shall we say, beefier children would be up against older more experienced wrestlers with a greater potential of getting hurt. These kids come from everywhere throughout the state. Yes it's a long drive for some but these families are ones who are dedicated to the sport and wrestle not only state wide but in multi states. No one forces these kids to be here they are here because of their drive and dedication.
Also while the brackets are sometimes large it is because he doesn't exclude. Any child can enter regardless of previous records. I could go on for hours but I have to get to work and I'm afraid my german irish temper will get the best of me if I continue to discuss the absurd allegations that have been stated by certain parties of this forum

Good thought in all this debate how many of the 6& under parents have had their say? My 3 wrestlers are all older so I don't have much of a say in this debate but those who are the ones whose children are going to generate the fees for this tournament should have the respect of having a say in the matter

I am guessing 50% of this year's 6U parents don't even know that they are going to be wrestling parents yet. That is 50% of the 2,000 plus card buyers. Most club directors do NOT have a 6U kid wrestling and the club directors are the voters. The club directors need to be in touch with what their parents would like to have or not have.

Ottawa could continue being the District 1 host for the 6U district tournament. I wouldn't have a problem naming the state tournament in some way to recognize Rick's contributions. It is just hard to make sense out of arguing to keep the state tournament is Ottawa. It is not official, small gym, long distance travel, limited parking, and Rick himself says it doesn't make a dime when he hosts it.

That is absolutely not true! Prior to the 6U state (note the small 's') being started, it was the intent of District 2 to start one seeing as how we were the primary proponents of a 6U State (note the large 's'). Each time we attempted to pass a proposal at the meeting it was primarily the good folks from District 1 that defeated it. Following one of these defeats several of us from D2 or maybe even the entire district, I can't remember which, got together at the state meeting and decided we would start a 6U state tournament if the body refused to do so. We came home with that intent but no sooner had we gotten home than the notice of such a tournament was going to be held in Ottawa came along. I personally had no problem with that, other than it seemed a bit hypocritical for the tournament to be held in the same district that had helped to defeat a State 6U tournament.
I applaud those responsible for creating the 6U state tournament but now for the betterment of all of our kids, it's time to give it up. I realize it is a cash cow and that can be very hard to give up. For the good of our state and the state of wrestling it must go back to where it should have been all along and that is in the hands of the state body.

Rich was not the only one involved with creating a six and under state tournament in Ottawa; He was our head coach that had the voice to make it happen. This attack on a venue that was created for so many kids in that age group because of the lack of interest or motivation so many years ago is absured. We as a coaching staff saw a need, and possibly something that may take off in the future, made a commitment to fill a void where others failed to do so. It's been a great deal of work and commitment, and worth every minute of the struggle, both to develope the six and under state tournament, and to try and hold onto it. So it's not just Rich that sees this as a struggle, but those of us that developed the idea, and turned it into reality.

As for a cash cow; That's a good one!

Matt Parenti - Honor tradition even if it's rescent history.

I just want to know how this will be handeled in the month of February? 2 State Tournaments, 2 Subdistricts & 2 district tournaments. Then again in March for the 12, 14, & 16's. Who and where will the open tournaments for the 12, 14, & 16. Plus Novice tournaments on Sundays? Where will the venues be, who will be the refs, what direction are the coaches suppose to go.


Post October 17, 2008

Will Cokeley -SFGD
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com


Finish the Kids (6, 8, and 10) with a sub, dist, and state tournament that ends in February. All of these events could be one day events which would make them more economical. Have another state tournament for 12, 14, and 16 after the JH/MS/HS seasons have ended. There would be no need for subs as the numbers don't justify it. Start this series the weekend after HS state. If there are some MS/JH programs extending beyond HS state we need to work with those leagues to end them earlier to permit these wrestlers the opportunity to wrestle for a state title (something KSHSAA doesn't offer). These tournaments would be small enough in size that they could be moved to all four districts. Honestly, the only city big enough to adequately and fairly host the current state tournament is Wichita. Topeka doesn't have the hotel room capacity needed not to mention it is not centrally located. The younger kids should be going to the HS state tournament to see what their long term goals are. We need to join forces and advocate a single site HS state tournament where we all gather annually to celebrate and recognize our wrestlers and the greatness of winning a HS state champioship

It is Mr. SFGRD to you. I still like the plan. It isn't the proposal to be voted on though. Don't try the old bait and switch on the folks who are crazy enough to be following this.

... (was I just called crazy by Will Cokeley?)

1) First it is add the 17 & 18’s
2) Then add the 6’s
3) Then 6,8,10’s separate state – at different locations
4) Then 12, 14, 16 separate state
5) The a 16 and over state
6) Then it is 4 and under and the Diaper classic
7) Where does it stop, how is it funded, who host all these events when other clubs are running novice tournaments, 12 & 14 opens - in Feberuary? These are all questions that have to be answered. It can not be lets vote for it and we will figure it out how to do it later. I hope that is not the plan.

If we are voting on 6 & U only because of money – it makes sense.
If we are trying to develop kids within our sport it makes absolutely no sense – Vote NO.

To say 6 & under do not have opportunities is not exactly correct. They have almost 3 months of tournaments 12-16 matches per month or 36-48 matches per year if parents and coaches let them wrestle that much. I never schedule that many matches for these Novice youngsters.


Flip Flop, Flip Flop, Flip Flop, -

Parents of 6U: My biggest question to all of you is: What do you remember about playing sports before you turned seven years old?”
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com


“It is Mr. SFGRD to you. I still like the plan. It isn't the proposal to be voted on though. Don't try the old bait and switch on the folks who are crazy enough to be following this.
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com


March 4, 2008

Smokey

Good work! I didn't know those types of discussions were happening in the hospitality room. I am going to have to start listening in!

Parents of 6U: My biggest question to all of you is: What do you remember about playing sports before you turned seven years old?”
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

Old Bait – I use for cat fishing.
Switch – I turn on my lights in the house.