Smokey posts:
Schoolboy/Girl Freestyle Results
Team Score
Freestyle Championships Results
1st Place - Pennsylvania Blue - No 6 & Under STate
2nd Place - Team Washington - Yes 6 & Under no Qualifier Open tournament
3rd Place - Minnesota Gold - Yes 6 & Under they have a qualifier
4th Place - Team Missouri - No 6 & Under State
5th Place - Team Wisconsin - No 6 & Under State
6th Place - Team New Jersey - No 6 & Unde State
7th Place - Indiana Gold - Yes 6 & Under State - I believe they have a qualifier
8th Place - Illinois - No six and Under State








http://missouriusawrestling.org/09-10/Results/6U-Rookie/BracketMain.htm

Missouri has 6&U State

Have you double checked the rest of your data?

What is Rookie State? Does it have a qualifier?
I am glad you are back - I have missed your discussions.
The entire proposal has some positive suggestions - I was trying to get this type of information from the proposer so I can make a educated vote. I asked you nicely to provide some data and you told me to get it myself. Most states have some form of 6 & under wrestling - that is not the point of contention - it is how we develope those 6 year olds. There are some 4 year olds that their parents pay for a USA card - why do they have to wrestle six year olds? Don't get me going on that topic 4 year olds.

SFGD,

Could you explain the rookie state (novice ??) vs regular state (open??) and 2 different locations. I am not trying to cherry pick data - I am trying to find some answers to questions I have about your proposal. Would a Novice State Tournament make sense in Kansas - I guess that depends on the numbers, age divisions, locations, etc. Well that is not on the agenda - so I will stay on topic.

http://www.missouriusawrestling.org/08-09/2009State/Results/2009State12&UnderBrackets.pdf Hearns Center - probably has a qualifier ( Not Rookie State)

http://www.missouriusawrestling.org/08-09/2009RookieState/Results/12&UnderBrackets.pdf - In Saint Joe – Open Novice Tournament Basicly -
Missouri USA Wrestling (I could not find a 6 & under at this event - which is the big dance in Missouri).
2007 State Folkstyle Championship
March 23-25, 2007

8 & Under State Results
40 lbs
1ST ANTHONY PISCIOTTA JR KNIGHTS (JRK)
2ND PRESTON HERRON JOPLIN TAKEDOWN (JOP)

45 lbs
1ST WESTON DIBLASI TEAM CENTRAL-PH (TCW)
2ND MAX ROARK SENECA (SEN)
3RD SHELDON COLLINGS TEAM CENTRAL-SW (TCS)
4TH BROCK DAVIS COLUMBIA (COL)
5TH JOSEPH CHANDRA LEXINGTON (LEX)
6TH HAYDEN HAMLIN KIRKSVILLE (KVL)

Smokeycabin, your data is indicative of insight of "intensive wrestling states" that can validate that having a 6 & U State Qualifying series and tournament does not inhibit their State from creating or nurturing "growth" in the Sport. Thank you for your review of data.

Variables of the # of wrestlers & the "end of season #" can be misrepresentative of the "true number of 6 & U's" that are still participating even after 3 weeks of practice (2' USAW/liability/insurance requirements for clubs). Therefore 2,000 wrestlers may not be a valid number come February 2011. Again, these children are Novice or as Missouri calls them Rookie --- presently we have those needs engaged. Not ALL weights @ Ottawa have > 36 wrestlers as well as @ the Novice Series in Derby.

This proposal needs to be further studied rather than "RUSHED" to vote! Voting NO on this proposal and acquiring factual data can allow time to make a more appropriate decision on this proposition.

Last year we "rushed" to the vote of allowing older HS'rs to participate in State.....we should have had a sharp & dramatic increase in the numbers when we had classes that weren't coinciding with HS wt. classes---we gave HS'rs ample opportunity to acquire a State title @ 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 150, 155, 160 etc. --- this opportunity made it much easier to "place in State" yet so few HS wrestlers took advantage of it! I am excited to watch the HS State Series this year as it will resemble a "Grand State".

Or it could be they just have so many more wrestlers that they are going to naturally come out on top in any competition regardless of if they have 6U state or not?
Why is it our sport is so obsessed about how anything effects our final outcome instead of what the kids might be experiencing right now? Why does it always have to be about whether we produce enough olympians or college wrestlers etc. etc.? Why can't it be about what the 6U kids would enjoy without considering if they might want to wrestle in the Olympics later on? You don't hear any other sport that I am aware of saying, "we aren't producing enough kids at this upper competition".
Do the right thing for the kids today and tomorrow will take care of itself!

There will be NO "Grand State", it gives older wrestlers a chance to continue doing what they love to do, WRESTLE. The Elite will be at Elite tournaments going on that same weekend. High School division was a good thing to vote in last year. 6U is a good thing to vote in this year.

perhaps Sportsfan because New England wrestlers wrestle year round and the proximity between the states is very small. (MD, NJ, NY, MA, PA etc.). They also get into high priced training oppportunities that seem to easily availableand near their door. Reality justifies the double digit greater than 10 Division I Wrestling programs alone in PA, as well as D II & D III schools.

My bad forgot about HS Nationals/Virginia Beach no wonder we didn't grow in phenomenal numbers last year!

Would like to see the old Folkstyle camp return @ K-State---the middle ages on up had a blast at a very reasonable priced camp. Wrestling mats in Bramlage was a great sight to see! Perhaps having a yearly Kansas Kids Folkstyle Camp Retreat & Blast could increase our Kansas Kids "stay power"?! Freestyle/Greco camp was still in June in preparing for Southern Plains & Fargo.

Altogether, we have what we have in place, it seems to work. Why have 6 year olds "qualify" yet not have a "seeding" like the State Qualifiers do and then a State. Of which we're anticipating approx. 1/4 (80) 5 & 6 year olds here in the state of Kansas are wrestling 80 lbs and more. Why give them "the same" State hardware (6) placings when they are 5 & 6 year olds? I truly can count on both my hands the # of State placers that quit the sport before the age of 10 because they already had achieved a state championship or placing by the time they were in 3rd grade so they went onto BB..............We need to examine retention!

You will have to explain to me what any of that means and how it is related to the subject at hand.


Our club already has, and it had nothing to do with participating in a 6U State tournament or not.

Originally Posted By: in it to win it
We need to examine retention!

Our club already has, and it had nothing to do with participating in a 6U State tournament or not.

You will have to explain to me what any of that means and how it is related to the subject at hand.

It means a State tournament is NOT a consideration for retention, one way or another. I don't believe, and I don't think anyone has claimed that a State tournament will improve retention. Instead, the proponents have simply said the 6U kids are entitled to it for various reasons. At the same time, it's silly to think it will somehow hurt retention!

I am not a proponent per say for the 6U state tournament, but I do not believe we should mandate to people they can't do it by not allowing it to be added. If there is enough interest add it. If you don't want to go don't go, but if you do you should have that option.

I will say I do not think it helps in a wrestlers progress for High school to wrestle aggressively at 5 and 6, but if you do and it's your kid you should have that right. Or if you just want to do it because you and your kid think it's fun, knock your self out.

My only advise would be to not put too much pressure or significance on 6u wrestling. It should be fun!

Nice post Mike.

Has anyone established that, as a state, we have a retention problem for sure? That might make for some interesting "data". Before we starting trying to fix a problem, we should first know if a problem exists.

This 6 under deal should be a parents and kids decision. I don't think that the 6 unders that pay the same club fees as everyone else should be told that their season is over a month earlier. If you want retention in this sport make it fun for all kids. Games at practice joking at practice, get rid of the Nazi camp attitudes and have fun. Kids join wrestling for fun not college scholarships or highschool state titles ( for fun ). Kansas competition season is from dec to march that is 4 months. Oklahoma competition season is from October to February 5 months. Leave the season alone let the little guys do what they want and if your adding them to state let them go to state with the rest of their teammates.

Also

Also do not prohibit 6 unders that choose to wrestle up in age to 8 under. Their are some little guys that just have it and realize that so let them bump up and get some good wrestling in.

Mike pirl

Below is our parent organization where we get our insurance from as a big group. Then there are State Associations who can carry out the National organizations Mission, Vision & Values. These guys make the rules when you buy a USA Wrestling Card. The parents have to follow the National and State Association - rules.


USA Wrestling is the National Governing Body for the Sport of Wrestling
Our Mission, Vision & Values

USA Wrestling is the National Governing Body for the Sport of Wrestling in the United States and, as such, is its representative to the United States Olympic Committee. Simply, USA Wrestling is the central organization that coordinates amateur wrestling programs in the nation and works to create interest and participation in these programs.

USA Wrestling has more than 160,000 members. These members include athletes of all ages, coaches, officials, parents and fans striving together to strengthen the sport. Each year, USA Wrestling charters over 3000 wrestling clubs and sanctions over 1600 local, state, regional and national competitions.

Mission: USA Wrestling, guided by the Olympic Spirit, provides quality opportunities for its members to achieve their full human and athletic potential.

Vision: USA Wrestling will strive to be the worlds best sports organization.

Values
• Responsibility - Fulfilling all functions, tasks, duties and assignments with trust and credibility on behalf of USA Wrestling by honoring promises and pledges.
• Integrity - Being true to self and the mission of USA Wrestling, while discerning right from wrong and acting on it.
• Dedication - Dedication to carrying out the mission and goals of USA Wrestling with the highest degree of sacrifice and discipline.
• Honesty - Being truthful and upright with people and issues in furthering the mission of USA Wrestling.
• Accountability - Providing answers and reasons to others for actions and behaviors intended to support the mission of USA Wrestling.
• Respect - Recognizing the absolute dignity in every human being, with a sense of compassion, caring and concern for the well-being of other people.


USA Wrestling is the National Governing Body for the Sport of Wrestling

2010 AGE DIVISIONS and WEIGHT CLASSES
http://themat.com/forms/Weights.pdf

Bylaws of USA Wrestling
http://www.themat.com/forms/Bylaws.pdf

Article IX talks about State Associations

Where are those ages and weight classes specifically in the USA by-laws? They aren't!

You can't have it both ways. If they have their own division why would you let them wrestle up? None of the other age divisions are allowed to do this.

Let's see...Some want the 6U to wrestle in the big show and be able to wrestle in 8U. Others don't want 6U to have a division or a state tournament. We have far left. We have far right. This proposal is right in the middle. Sounds like a good proposal. Vote YES!!!!

Simply stated alot of people in Kansas want that feel good every kid wins kinda thing. I am sorry but there are just not that many kids out there that need to bump up because of no competition except in the 6 and under group. What I mean about the feel good stuff is (27) brackets in each weight class at tournaments. I believe in 1 bracket 1 winner. If your novice go to novice tournaments if your open and losing practice harder.

Mike Pirl