138 Victor Hughes ranked 5th? Taylor Watkins 10th? Watkins beat Hughes head to head 3-1 at state!

If those were the only two wrestlers, I agree. Taylor has 11 losses. Besides Kriss, Gehring, Fiscus, Cannon and Heincker, who are his other losses to?

He lost to kids from MO, OK, CO but Watkins also beat (Millsap #6)

Who would win Zac Gentzler vs. Jason Perez

Considering Zac never gets taken down and has 1 loss in high school after 3yrs, I'd take Gentzler!! That said Perez is very impressive, his takedown with a few seconds left was phenonemal in the finals last Sat.

Kevin Seybold

Gentzler. No doubt. Perez had one heck of a state finals match though! If anyone has the film of Perez-Mies finals match from this year they should post it. Great example of why you should never stop wrestling until the final whistle.

Although a loss is a loss, you can hardly consider Watkins beating Millsap. Not crying about terrible calls but if you were at basehor and saw the match you would think differently. Not saying that this counts as criteria at all but Millsap did beat Watkins in Freestyle and in Greco at state.

Not everyone wrestles greco an freestyle though every year. But head to head in the high school season Watkins beat Millsap. When I was in high school beating kids ranked higher than you earned you a stepup in the rankings I guess times have changed and thats not how it works anymore

Try to understand this...

If we were in a seeding meeting and the only two seedable wrestlers were Watkins and Millsap, Watkins would get the 1 seed. The All-Class rankings involve other wrestlers. Specifically, Humphrey, Heincker and Hughey who placed 2nd in Watkins bracket at state. After looking at the quality wins and commons, I cannot rank Taylor above those guys.

The All-Class Dual Teams are forming!!!! Please check your e-mails for invites that I have mailed out. We need to fill two full teams of 14 wrestlers each. As soon as a wrestler declines, I will invite the next wrestler in line.

This tournament is a blast! We took 17 state champions last year and put 6 in the finals. Some of our guys got 10 matches over the weekend. You only have to make weight once on Friday with TWO pounds allowance! That carries you through the Duals on Friday and the Saturday/Sunday bracketed Rocky Mountain National Tournament!

Walk outside, take in the cool air and view the mighty Rocky Mountains!

God's amazing creation!

Alright not trying to put down any of these wrestlers either, because they are all great wrestlers but I'm saying head to head should have more influence than common opponents

I believe that Watkins is well placed were he is. The fact that he even made the all class rankings at all is a testament to the spectacular finish that he had at state. You should be proud of where he is.

As Chief already pointed out when comparing only two kids, head to head is easy to go to. But when you have ten kids to analyze, you have to look at the overall picture, the whole year, the body of work, etc. and you certainly can't just say if A beat B and B beat C then A can beat C.

So with that in mind and considering the fact that I have no dog in the show, here is my assessment:
You can't put Watkins ahead of Hughey because Hughey was 2nd.
You can't put Hughey ahead of Heincker because Heincker beat Hughey at Rosehill so you can't put Watkins ahead of Heincker.
Humphrey beat Heincker so you can't put Watkins ahead of Humphrey.
Hughes has beaten Humphrey and Heincker so you can't put Watkins ahead of Hughes. I know, that's where you struggle.
But even though Watkins beat Hughes at state, a great accomplishment I should say, it is very difficult to justify putting him ahead of Hughes in the all class rankings.

The same reasoning applies to the Millsap comparison but Chief just kind of explained that. I do agree that at this point in the year, what happened last year in FS/GR should not be considered. I also wouldn't say that Watkin's did not beat Millsap at Basehor or the win somehow does not count, that is clearly an insult to Watkins. The win over Millsap does count, just not enough at the end of the year to rank Watkins ahead of Millsap, particularly since Millsap won a state bracket that contained Humphrey and Heincker. And I already explained why Watkins cannot be ahead of them.

As I said, Watkins is well placed where he is.
He is 1 of the top 10 kids in the state at a tough weight and as a freshman.
His ranking is a testament to the great season that he has had and we should all be proud of him.

X, who's on first? ha ha!

Kevin Seybold

All I can say is not me because I just rounded third and I am heading home and I will be safe.

It would be alot simpler if every win was guaranteed. Gotta love wrestling every match can gi either way

And now after being on one side of a discussion I find myself on the other side and here is my grievance.

Kimple and Woodruff of Goddard should be ranked, with all due respect.

As much as I would love to say I am not biased, I know that Chief would never let me get by with that and he would call me out for sure as I do have a dog in this show, or should I say two dogs. But I am really being as objective as I can based on the facts and their history.

I do not see how Kimple cannot be ranked at 160 when he beat Torres at state. It's not like the Watkins scenario where A beat B, B beat C, C beat A. It seems pretty cut and dry. Kimple beat Torres at state and lost to Guillen in the finals. He lost to Dice in the finals at regional. He lost to Grater at the VC duals. He lost to Middleton at Derby. He defaulted to Ortiz of VC on the back side but he beat Ortiz in a dual and at regional. I can see where that is a tough one because to put Kimple in, you have to bump Torres or Puckett both bona fide all class quality kids. But obviously so is Kimple because he did beat Torres, as I said, and he did beat Puckett but it was last year at kid's state.

As for Woodruff, to me that is even more cut and dry if the rankings are a true reflection of where the 285 kids stack up right now. Woodruff's only loss is to Callahan at state. He was in the rankings last week after winning regionals. One week later he is out of the rankings when his only loss is a close loss to #5. I don't get it. But I would bet my house he could beat half the kids on the list.

With all due respect.

i dont undestand how i dropped so low for injury defaulting with a dislocated shoulder. i beat wood three times this year.

Nick Pursel

If you are talking about 160 you also have a kid - Wuthnow - with only 2 loses - both to state champions - unranked. Some weight classes get real complex. I figure next year he will rank very high.

Good points X! I will think those over...

I agree Nick. I fixed that.