Why does the state of Kansas not follow the National Rules?

Attending the Perry Tournament of Champions this year, as the father of a participant, and not just a fan, has really opened my eyes. I continually hear coaches and parents complain about how much this kid or that kid pulls, but Kansas sidesteps National rules designed to discourage massive weight pulling. Why do we allow kids to pull large amounts of weight, weigh in first thing in the morning and then fill up and be ready for the match 10 hours later?

College wrestlers weigh in just before they wrestle. National High School Rules have the kids weigh in just before they wrestle. Why does Kansas think this is a bad idea? I'm asking for legitimate reasons why we, as a State, are not following National Guidelines?

I think they think that by allowing them to weigh in early they are helping them.

In reality they are enabling them to pull a lot of weight. Kids that have to weigh in and wrestle will only cut to where they can perform a short time later.

Guarantee that kids that are pulling alot and then have to step off the scale to on the mat will have a different thought process after they do that many times.

It would for sure drive kids to wrestle closer to their "walk around" weight.

I want to first say, I 100% agree with you Beeson. I do know the thought process as i sat in those meetings when new weight rules were implemented by KSHSAA.

Thought process by Adminstrators: We don't want kids focusing on cutting weight and no focusing on school on competition days. (I think that is flawed thinking b/c if they are cutting too much weight, they are not as focused on school anyway and it would be the entire day before at best)

Following the decent plan by the National Federation is a Crap Load of paper work on a coach. (I agree with not following the decent plan)

However, I truly believe that if we implemented:
1. 1 hour weigh in before duals
2. 2 hour weigh in before tournaments
3. 2 Hour weigh in before 2nd Day of 2 Day tournaments
4. 1 Hour Weigh in before scheduled Finals of a 2 Day tournament (Not sure about this one but it was a thought i had while typing)

We would fix a lot of things!

Home weigh ins are a joke too! Also, weighing on Friday night instead of Saturday morning on a two day event, ugh. Our schedule is mostly out of state events so we follow the National rule most of the time. Makes state weigh in seem easy...

Ok, since there doesn't seem to be anyone arguing against the National rule....Who do we need to contact to get Kansas on board?

I came from a different state where I began officiating. When I moved to Kansas I was flabbergasted that kids don't weigh in on-site. When I asked several people why they don't weigh in on-site I was told that one reason is because there is too far to travel between some towns for meets. Therefore, having to get to a site 2 hrs earlier would make for too early of mornings for some Kansas teams.

I politely called BS having come from a more sparsely populated state but I heard this excuse from more than one source at the time.

Also, where I came from officials are paid an extra $25 for arriving 2 hrs early for weigh-ins. This is standard and I don't know if it would also have an effect on KSHSAA's decision.

Just an FYI, Logan is 106 in PA this year weighing in with a cheeseburger in Hand at a massive 103. Pa follows national high school rules we weigh in 1 hour before duals 2 hours before tournaments and always have 2nd day weigh i for 2 day tournaments and I can tell you first hand that it does not eliminate any weight cutting. I have seen the biggest 106 pounders on the planet in the last 4 weeks along with 113 120 126 and so on. Once everyone gets used to it then that's just how it is and it's normal. While I do think it's a novel idea to try and stop the weight cutting the only true way to do it is for coaches to step up be honest and caring and say NO. Just my 02 cents

Good luck to everyone in ks.
Mike Pirl

Not the coaches main concern...more of a parent issue. Still you hear all the time, "if they can catch him on the first day"....What if both days were "the first day"?

Mike, you are right. Once they get used to it, but you can only get used to so much.

Still the question..."What do we have to do to get it changed in Kansas?"

Beeson, Contact Mark Lentz at the KSHSAA.
He can line out the process for you.

Or, continue in the following manner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gSQg1i_q2g

I could be wrong, but I do not think there is much momentum among the KSHSAA member schools to change the weigh-in process in Kansas to the national rule. Of course, a change is impossible or at least unlikely without a significant number of member schools in favor of the change. Again, perhaps there is more support for change among KSHSAA schools than I realize and we may see this change occur in the future.

Lentz is a puppet for Musselman.

Then call Musselman, or, continue in the following manner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gSQg1i_q2g

Wrestling from Oklahoma and then coaching in Kansas I was totally shocked at the weigh in procedures in Kansas. I understand the thought process about wanting kids to focus on school and not cutting weight. From my experience the day of any competition I was totally focused on my match that night, or day of competition and just got through the school day. ( I am sure that is probably the way most kids are the day of battle.) I think that what Church mentioned about times of weigh-in's is a good thing and also allows the coach to teach more about proper nutrition. We always weighed in at 5pm and wrestled duels at 7pm. Tournaments were 3 hours before start times. With on site weigh their leaves no doubt about kids actual weight.
I also think that KSHSAA needs to consider giving kids more than two weeks to prepare for the season opener. I know a lot of teams start out with two a days to try and compensate for the short amount of time that is given to get ready for the start of the season.
Getting a chance this year to shadow my home town from Oklahoma I have witnessed the paperwork fiasco and Church is spot on about it being overbearing.

Just my thoughts.

Kshsaa does not care about you athletes. They also do not care about your coaches and especially about this forum. They work for the Administrator of your school. Musselman is the Roger Goodell of Ks sports with a little more power then Goodell. As long as your administrator (who 95-100%) could care less about wrestling is on board this is all just talk and will continue to be. Deal with the hand given or fight the fight but I would bet 100.00 that this will not be changed before your freshman and definitely my Junior graduate. KSHSAA is a disgrace and should be ashamed of there performance.

Well, Pat. . .it is true many school administrators do not understand or appreciate wrestling; certainly does not mean all are that way; all is needed is one who agrees with you who could run with the proposal for rules change.

But there is more than one avenue to pursue a change; another is from the KWCA. . .there is at least one HS coach on this forum who agrees with you and has some pull in the KWCA; he could certainly champion your cause.

The fact of the matter is most coaches that I talk with understand there are warts with the system but prefer it over the alternative. Too, the rule changes regarding weight loss (whether the NF descent plan or the Kansas plan) are geared to eliminating pulling large amounts of weight. More kids than ever before are wrestling closer to their "walking around weight."

The argument I see on here is that morning weigh-ins encourage extreme weight loss. It can be argued that onsite weigh-ins do the same.

It's not the weigh in the encourages extreme weight loss, it's the 12 hour time between weighing in and competition.

Exactly...A 152lb wrestler can weight 162-165 on Monday morning. He pulls down to 152 for weigh ins at 6:00 am and makes weight. By the time he wrestles at 7:00 pm that night he will be weighing 162-165 lbs. His body has had time to take in the nutrients and water to be fully ready to wrestle. If this wrestler was to weigh in 1 hour before he wrestles the most he would weigh is 157, but he would be bloated and weak as the nutrients would not have had time to be digested. Giving wrestlers 12 hours to pack on the pounds does encourage unsafe weight pulling. I would love to hear an arguement against this thought process. I cant think of one that would hold water.

C'mon folks do you not remember high school kids cutting huge weight before the new rules? Cutting is so much better now then it was in the days of plastics , boiler rooms,saunas, no water for you kid, be a man, skipping class to run,spitting in a cup during class, wearing plastics to class and to bed , etc. coaches and athletes are so much better trained now. Cutting is not relevant to the time of day you weigh in!! So very few, I would say less than 2-3 kids on a team manage their weight properly. You tell every athlete the same nutrition principals, and it rarely sinks in. Is it the kids fault, the coaches fault, the parents fault or the national federation rules fault or even kshsaa s fault? (Musselman is to blame for sure lol). No it is not! 14-18 year old kids are going to do what they are going to do. I remember kids eating pizza after a 5 pm weigh in for a dual and watching them puke or poop on the mat at the hs and college level. I remember cutting class to make weight. I remember being a zombie in the classroom all day. I remember leaving at 3 am to get to a weigh in. None of those things are in the best interest of a young man. Today's rule in ks is so much better for our kids. I really believe that about 80% of our coaches support the rule. Mr. Mann hit the nail on the head, if you want change you have to work hard for it. I have personally helped teams of ks coaches change two kshsaa rules. You convince your administrators, your league administrators, State wide league admins then Kwca then you talk to many kshsaa executive board members then you go to a few executive board meetings with said admin and support from Kwca then you get things changed. It is very hard work and like most kids with nutrition issues most folks resolve themselves to complaining rather than doing Wow my post in a year or so!! Keep the current weigh in system!

Cutting weight comes down to a couple things.
1. What weight can I make varsity
2. What weight can I win state, place or qualify, depending upon your goal
Yes there are a few that just wrestle where they lie, but that is not the overwhelming norm for kids. And that my friends will never never change

Kids are still doing this. You are living in a fantasy world if you think they are not.