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Weigh ins for State and Regionals #244422 02/14/17 01:53 AM
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Beeson Offline OP
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I don't really know who to call out on this question, but...When is Kansas going to start following National Guidelines for weighing in?

Are we really going to allow wrestlers to do Home Weigh-ins for Regionals? If so, Why don't we just go ahead and allow it for State as well? Hell, Why even weigh in? There are a lot of kids out there that look awfully big, and just can't seem to make weight unless they are having at home weigh ins. Or for some reason or the other, need to wrestle up at tourneys with shoulder to shoulder weigh ins.

KSHSAA or KWCA, needs to step up and do something good for this sport. Prepare the wrestlers for College, have shoulder to shoulder weigh ins for duals. At the very least, have shoulder to shoulder weigh ins for Regionals and State.


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244431 02/14/17 02:21 AM
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While I agree that we do need non-home weigh ins for regionals and state, I think the fact that regionals are now two day tournaments really reduces the amount of cheating that could happen. Even if a wrestler doesn't make weight for their normal class in the morning (still a major problem in my eyes), what could they do about the night weigh in? That plus one isn't going to do jack for someone that's 7 over in the morning.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: AverageWrestler] #244432 02/14/17 02:23 AM
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Beeson Offline OP
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How hard is that last pound to make? I think you just validated my suggestion of just not making weight at all. Or, if it's ok for Regionals, why not home weigh ins for State? It's principle.


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244434 02/14/17 02:47 AM
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Well the state doesn't require shoulder to shoulder weigh ins for state already....freestyle/greco state has home site weigh ins. so maybe that's in the works for folkstyle as well


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244436 02/14/17 03:06 AM
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I don't feel like there is cheating happening with weigh-ins. I feel like coaches & admins are honest people and kids are making required weights like they're supposed to. I feel like if kids were allowed by their coach/admins to cheat on weigh-ins, that would surely get out. Kids wouldn't be keeping that quiet, kids are awful at that, they talk.

I also like home weigh-ins before school, so kids are not holding weight or trying to lose weight during academic time. That is not good at all for school focus & achieving good grades. Teachers would hate it & it would make it even harder than it currently is to continue to sell & grow our sport. I like that kids can make weight in the morning & then focus on academics during the day, like they should be.

Just my thoughts on the topic.

Last edited by Kit Harris; 02/14/17 03:15 AM.
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Kit Harris] #244437 02/14/17 03:11 AM
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Very much agree with Kit here.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: AverageWrestler] #244442 02/14/17 09:44 AM
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Sorry Kit, but I disagree. Admins are easily manipulated and we only hear about the ones that get caught, not the ones that get away with it. Kids do keep quiet, I can think of two schools off of the top of my head that did it for quite a while before getting caught.

I am so sick and tired of hearing the before school weigh-ins help kids academically. The weight has to be cut and it is going to effect the weaker minded kids. So they are not performing well on dual night, now they are not performing well on the day before a dual instead. We go to a lot of Oklahoma and Missouri tournaments that do it the right way, and guess what, no problems with Academics. Also, if a kid looks big, at least you saw him make weight an hour earlier.

Here's where I debated throwing out a couple of logical jabs. I must be getting soft, I'll hold off for now.


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244443 02/14/17 09:56 AM
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Beeson Offline OP
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I'm sure John Smith and Cael Sanderson are honest people. Do you think John will call Cael Sunday and say, "Hey just weigh in before you get here. I trust you ole buddy." Yeah, me neither.


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244444 02/14/17 11:33 AM
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I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but let me add one more thought on the subject I had while at the gym.

I have seen coaches watch a bad call for their wrestler and not correct it. I have seen coaches give JV records for a seeding meeting for a Varsity Tournament and pretend they are Varsity records. I have seen coaches argue calls that they know are right. I have seen coaches beg for calls they know are wrong and not feel a bit of remorse when they get the call. I have seen coaches tell kids to take a dive after an illegal slam. I have seen coaches catch kids with banned substances and look the other way. I have seen coaches allow kids to fake injury for a breather. This is not just one or two coaches, this is a majority of the coaches. While I believe intentions are good and most coaches try to be honest and fair, it doesn't always happen that way. With these examples in mind, do you really think there are not coaches out there allowing some weight allowance at home weigh ins?

Like my dad used to say, "Even good kids need to be checked up on so they don't make bad choices."


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244445 02/14/17 12:28 PM
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I can tell you FOR A FACT home site weigh ins were exploited last year for freestyle/greco state not to make the travel team but to clinch a triple crown, to the extent that the kid in question couldn't make the weight for the travel team and had to pull out. I would dare say that every time you have home site weigh ins available some one, some where is taking advantage of it and pushing through an overweight kid


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244446 02/14/17 12:36 PM
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Furthermore, if your interests lie in having your state series be as "untainted" as possible for any/all the styles you should remove home site/satellite weigh ins from the equation

Last edited by BigBlue6; 02/14/17 12:36 PM.

The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244471 02/14/17 10:20 PM
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You've beaten this dead horse so much, it's starting to bleed.


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Spexy] #244472 02/14/17 10:25 PM
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ALL SCHOOLS, have the same rules. It is what it is. And across the board, all coaches and the administrators are doing a great job. This isn't college, those that choose to go on to the next level will figure it out. Why, cry over spilled milk? Always been this way.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Spexy] #244474 02/14/17 11:46 PM
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Just cause it's always been done wrong does not mean it should continue. 20 years ago 8 kids got busted for not making weight, many were seniors. A coaching legend was and a administrator lost their jobs and reputation. I'm sure it is happening to this day. Regionals have never been done like this, so things do change.


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244475 02/15/17 01:07 AM
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Correct, things do change, as do the times. But the ALWAYS CONSTANT, is KSHSAA. Not right or wrong, in some people's, opinion. Wanna change it, run for a position, on the board. If not live with it, and support, our state and and wrestlers.
And pretty sure, EVERY team has a skeleton hanging in their closet. Past is the past. Careful.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244477 02/15/17 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: Beeson
Just cause it's always been done wrong does not mean it should continue. 20 years ago 8 kids got busted for not making weight, many were seniors. A coaching legend was and a administrator lost their jobs and reputation. I'm sure it is happening to this day. Regionals have never been done like this, so things do change.


It's been done this way for regionals in 4A and 321A for years....just new to 5A and 6A.


Nathan Broeckelman
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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Spexy] #244478 02/15/17 01:28 AM
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Beeson Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Spexy
Correct, things do change, as do the times. But the ALWAYS CONSTANT, is KSHSAA. Not right or wrong, in some people's, opinion. Wanna change it, run for a position, on the board. If not live with it, and support, our state and and wrestlers.
And pretty sure, EVERY team has a skeleton hanging in their closet. Past is the past. Careful.


Careful on your Careful. Would love to exchange skeletons. Just say the word.


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244480 02/15/17 02:34 AM
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Who are these teams you THINK are lying about making weight? How about instead of making wild accusations you start naming some names?

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Beeson] #244481 02/15/17 02:36 AM
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Well,
I'm a bigger person. I'm not out to implicate, bash our sport, schools, coaches, administrators, or KSHSAA. What's your goal? Digging up old graves? And you do it EVERYTIME, at this time of year. Why dont you start in November/December?
Done with this thread.
IT'S A LOST CAUSE WITH BEESON!

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: AverageWrestler] #244483 02/15/17 02:52 AM
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Beeson Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: AverageWrestler
Who are these teams you THINK are lying about making weight? How about instead of making wild accusations you start naming some names?


Says the poster with no name. I've gotten several phone calls and PMs asking about certain teams and giving instances on other teams. Widespread enough I'll bring it up every year, and for Spexy, I'll start early next year. Any team not willing to weigh in front of others are probably guilty.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Spexy] #244484 02/15/17 02:53 AM
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Beeson is right. Our rules do need to change. Home weigh-ins need to go away. The second weigh-in needs to be on the second day. Weigh ins for duals need to be shoulder to shoulder and an hour before the dual. The academic excuse is weak. If weight cutting is hurting your grades then move up a weight class. It's that simple. We absolutely should be trying to mimic the way they do things in college to prepare those that want to go on to the next level. Accomadate those guys not the guys that will be done after high school. Everyone wants to leave things as is because they're OK with how our state compares to others. I am not OK with how good we are as a state, neither is Beeson and that is why he pushes for change. It's not a lost cause at all.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244487 02/15/17 11:43 AM
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I agree with Beeson and Cokeley. I wasn't going to post about this because I have a lot of good friends that were involved in this because of their head coach and athletic director. I am not trying to throw this at them in anyway. Back in the early 90's we had an incident that occurred because of home weigh-ins. We requested shoulder to shoulder weigh-ins and checked the scheduled weigh-in time with KSHSAA and this school changed the time twice without notifying us. We showed up very early and surprised them and after several phone calls to KSHSAA they had to come back and weigh-in shoulder to shoulder. Eight of the twelve wrestlers did not make weight (Sad Situation). This was at regional's. Some of these wrestlers were (seniors) no state tournament. The athletic director signed the weigh-in sheet the night before he admitted this. Both the athletic director and the head coach lost their jobs. You would think KSHSAA would have learned a valuable lesson and would work toward making our sport better and fair for all.In this day and age with participation trophies and ribbons you know this goes on.It is sad for the young men and women that are doing it the right way are at an unfair advantage. Shoulder to shoulder weigh-ins is the only way to make it fair. Kids miss school for less reasons than wrestling meets.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244516 02/15/17 11:10 PM
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Chase Offline
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Since the forums haven't been funny for quiet some time at least we still got people like beeson to stir the pot


Hey Butt-Head what did people do before they invented TV?
Don't be stupid Beavis there's always been TV, there's just more channels now.
Oh yeah, heh heh hehe... progress is cool. Heh hehe heh
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Chase] #244517 02/15/17 11:32 PM
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I'm just going to reiterate that our STATE freestyle/greco tournament for ALL age groups, uses satellite/(same as home site) weigh ins -- same tournament that qualifies you for them pricey state teams that go galavanting all over the country on hard working kansas wrestling family dimes!


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244518 02/15/17 11:38 PM
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in case my point gets missed--if a state is gonna let their STATE CHAMPIONSHIP of any style of wrestling be home site weigh ins, what chance are you going to have of getting a REGIONAL tournament changed to be shoulder to shoulder


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244521 02/16/17 01:01 AM
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Considering the high school folkstyle season and the freestyle and greco season are controlled by two different organizations the chances are good.

I think I am missing your point. Home weigh-ins for freestyle and greco are not a problem.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244522 02/16/17 01:16 AM
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why would it not be a problem for 2 styles (freestyle and greco) of the triple crown of Kansas but they are for the third style (folkstyle)? In all cases the high school age divisions are affected. Logically it should either be a problem for all or none. for accuracy's sake its actually across 3 regulatory bodies when the HS division of the kids state tournament is considered but that begs the question why are home site weigh ins ok for freestyle and greco but NOT ok for folkstyle (high school or kids state)?


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244523 02/16/17 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: rccokeley
Beeson is right. Our rules do need to change. Home weigh-ins need to go away. The second weigh-in needs to be on the second day. Weigh ins for duals need to be shoulder to shoulder and an hour before the dual. The academic excuse is weak. If weight cutting is hurting your grades then move up a weight class. It's that simple. We absolutely should be trying to mimic the way they do things in college to prepare those that want to go on to the next level. Accomadate those guys not the guys that will be done after high school. Everyone wants to leave things as is because they're OK with how our state compares to others. I am not OK with how good we are as a state, neither is Beeson and that is why he pushes for change. It's not a lost cause at all.


Do other states have home site weigh ins for the "less important" styles?


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244524 02/16/17 01:27 AM
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You're changing your question now. REGIONALS and HIGH SCHOOL STATE are regulated by KSHSAA, so getting regionals to change to shoulder to shoulder weigh-ins for the first weigh-in should not be hard.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but i believe one of the reasons we use the home site weigh-ins for freestyle and greco is to accommodate the kids that have graduation. And you can't let JUST those kids do it, you have to do it for all ages for that particular tournament. It wasn't always like that, but we used to have freestyle and greco state later than we do now.

If someone was using the home-site weigh-ins to cheat to earn a triple crown then that's a moral issue that kid and their parents have. It only makes the accomplishment empty.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244525 02/16/17 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: BigBlue6
Originally Posted By: rccokeley
Beeson is right. Our rules do need to change. Home weigh-ins need to go away. The second weigh-in needs to be on the second day. Weigh ins for duals need to be shoulder to shoulder and an hour before the dual. The academic excuse is weak. If weight cutting is hurting your grades then move up a weight class. It's that simple. We absolutely should be trying to mimic the way they do things in college to prepare those that want to go on to the next level. Accomodate those guys not the guys that will be done after high school. Everyone wants to leave things as is because they're OK with how our state compares to others. I am not OK with how good we are as a state, neither is Beeson and that is why he pushes for change. It's not a lost cause at all.


Do other states have home site weigh ins for the "less important" styles?


No where in the post that you quoted did I call Freestyle and Greco less important and if you actually know me then you know that I value Freestyle and Greco way more than Folkstyle.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244526 02/16/17 01:30 AM
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And I am not sure what other states do. I'd have to ask around.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244527 02/16/17 01:34 AM
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well if they aren't less important then why from a competitive integrity standpoint would home site weigh ins be any more acceptable? (see that whole less important thing was me baiting you as I know you are the state director for those styles--it seems to have worked)


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244528 02/16/17 01:40 AM
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and graduation, lunar landing, your great aunt's birthday shouldn't have anything to do with it it is a competitive integrity issue in ALL cases: high school regionals, state, kids state qualifying series, kids folkstyle state, or state freestyle greco ALL should be shoulder to shoulder weigh ins as they are ALL the showcase of our state wrestling and should be treated as such


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244529 02/16/17 01:47 AM
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I'm actually not the state director for those styles but you are close, buddy. Like I said earlier, because of the time of year that we hold Freestyle and Greco state we use SATELLITE weigh-ins (there is a difference to home site weigh-ins) to accommodate for various factors that my father (the actual state director for Freestyle and Greco) or Mike Juby could explain to you. I can't because I don't know what they all are.


My name is Ryne by the way. Thats what the R in my screen name stands for.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244530 02/16/17 01:50 AM
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I know that number of participants is another reason we do SATELLITE weigh-ins for Freestyle and Greco state. Take away the satellite weigh-ins and well there won't be much of a Freestyle and Greco state tournament to have.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244532 02/16/17 02:03 AM
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noted Ryne, nice to meet you, and I would agree that those are probably the more important styles honestly, but that also is why they should be given the same treatment as the other STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS from the standpoint of weigh ins. the freestyle/greco championships are a 2 day event with 3-4 opportunities for weigh ins surely all the competitors could make either Friday night, Saturday morning or Saturday night or Sunday morning weigh ins for the older age groups


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244535 02/16/17 02:06 AM
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also in my experience there isnt much difference between home site or satellite weigh ins in this state once you are beyond the Wichita or KC Metro city limits--so for about 85-90% or the locations its 1-2 clubs of people who all know each other


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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244537 02/16/17 02:11 AM
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last i checked the competitors in the state freestyle/greco championships have to show up in Hutch eventually to you know... wrestle, we can weigh em while they are there


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244538 02/16/17 02:17 AM
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It's a one day event. You as a wrestler only wrestle on either Saturday or Sunday. Not having a shoulder to shoulder weigh-in for that tournament does not take away the importance of the styles. If you believe someone cheated the satellite weigh-in last year then I suggest you find out where that person weighed-in, who was running the weigh-in, and report them to either Will Cokeley or Mike Juby and they will take care of it.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244539 02/16/17 02:25 AM
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Preseason Nationals
Kickoff Classic at TUlsa
Tulsa Nationals
USJOC
Iowa Folkstyle Nationals
Big Horn
LIberty
Reno
Schoolboy duals
Cadet Duals
Junior Duals
Southern plains regional
Fargo
Everyone weighs in AT THE SITE.....

I'm willing to give our state FS GR tourney a pass on SATELLITE weighins, but not home site. ANd if you weigh in a kid from your club, someone from another club has to be there watching. At least it takes 2 crooks to cheat that way.....

I got a sh*tty text from a guy that was obviously upset that his kid had to run at a satellite weigh in that we did recently. Before he mouthed off, he should have asked his kid about the two Brawlers kids that were also running because they were a few tenths over. HInt: if you want me to "give" you anything at weigh ins, don't come to my weigh in. When a tourney says "no allowance", there is no allowance. Period.

I agree with shoulder to shoulder. "back in the day", we weighed in about an hour before the duals started on Thursdays. And about 2 hours before the tourney started on Saturdays, AT THE TOURNEY SITE. Somehow, we turned out ok, though some may argue that I did not........

Almost forgot!!! Salina Tourney of Champions does weigh ins AT SALINA. Bobby is old school and I like it! Some how, those Nebraska and Missouri kids find a way to attend the tourney and weigh in there. If you offer good competition, kids will show up and meet whatever weigh in procedure you put in place. GIving the State FS GR kids a SATELLITE site would be tolerable for me.......

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Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: doug747] #244542 02/16/17 02:47 AM
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If memory serves me correctly there are less than 6 or so states that actually do home site weigh-ins at the high school level. All the rest do shoulder to shoulder and they seem to survive.

There is however a much more important aspect to this that no one has mentioned thus far. Due to our unwillingness to follow the NFHS rules in this regard we do NOT get a vote as a state at the NFHS regarding rule changes and such. In case you missed that we have NO representation with the body that sets our rules and procedures in the sport of wrestling because of home site weigh-ins.

Think about that? Every time you talk about wanting kids to be able to wrestle 6 matches a day, going to college out of bounds rules, and all the other rules you think we should change. There they are in Indianapolis every year talking about this stuff and asking for a show of support, and where is our rep? Sitting there with his hand in his lap because he doesn't get to vote.

Just some food for thought.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: doug747] #244545 02/16/17 02:54 AM
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BigBlue6 Offline
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WHY ARE SATELLITE WEIGH INS TOLERABLE AT A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP?! you can't satellite wrestle. Is it "well we've always done it that way"? It invites an erosion of competitive integrity. there were 15 satellite sites for that tournament last year--15! how about 1 in KC, 1 in Topeka, 1 in Wichita and 2 out west where it is handiest? Better yet 0 satellites cause we don't have them for folkstyle state. If you can make it to Hutch to wrestle you can make it to weigh in


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244546 02/16/17 03:04 AM
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rccokeley Offline
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Originally Posted By: BigBlue6
WHY ARE SATELLITE WEIGH INS TOLERABLE AT A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP?! you can't satellite wrestle. Is it "well we've always done it that way"? It invites an erosion of competitive integrity. there were 15 satellite sites for that tournament last year--15! how about 1 in KC, 1 in Topeka, 1 in Wichita and 2 out west where it is handiest? Better yet 0 satellites cause we don't have them for folkstyle state. If you can make it to Hutch to wrestle you can make it to weigh in


I just told you in a PM they keep the freestyle and greco state tournament alive. Please take your beef with the Freestyle and Greco state tournament over the the Freestyle and Greco part of this forum, so that we can get back to discussing why home-site weigh-ins for the FOLKSTYLE HIGH SCHOOL SEASON are bad for our state.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: wrestlingspectat] #244547 02/16/17 03:05 AM
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rccokeley Offline
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Originally Posted By: wrestlingspectat
If memory serves me correctly there are less than 6 or so states that actually do home site weigh-ins at the high school level. All the rest do shoulder to shoulder and they seem to survive.

There is however a much more important aspect to this that no one has mentioned thus far. Due to our unwillingness to follow the NFHS rules in this regard we do NOT get a vote as a state at the NFHS regarding rule changes and such. In case you missed that we have NO representation with the body that sets our rules and procedures in the sport of wrestling because of home site weigh-ins.

Think about that? Every time you talk about wanting kids to be able to wrestle 6 matches a day, going to college out of bounds rules, and all the other rules you think we should change. There they are in Indianapolis every year talking about this stuff and asking for a show of support, and where is our rep? Sitting there with his hand in his lap because he doesn't get to vote.

Just some food for thought.


This guy gets it better than anyone else on here.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244552 02/16/17 01:11 PM
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Hull DWC Offline
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Place a scale at each mat. Before a wrestler checks in at the table; both wrestlers must weigh in wearing singlet, head gear and shoes. Make it part of the check in. This will eliminate all cheating and crazy weight cutting.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Hull DWC] #244558 02/16/17 02:08 PM
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BigBlue6 Offline
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Here is what I get .... that it is a bush league practice to have any portion of your state series at any level for any style use satellite or home site or anything other than shoulder to shoulder weigh ins. Period. To find that our state does this in the face of the exclusion of Kansas having a voice in the NFHS is disappointing to say the least. Furthermore, I am of the mind that the fact that Kansas uses satellite weigh ins for the state freestyle/greco CHAMPIONSHIP is directly related to this regional home site folkstyle issue in the sense that there are apparently a whole lot of folks involved in KS wrestling decision making, on many levels, who simply don't get WHY satellite or home site weigh ins ARE A BUSH LEAGUE PRACTICE, or maybe they do get it and that's why KS has them? You can't go around tooting the horn of KS wrestling and how we deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with states like Oklahoma, Iowa or Pennsylvania when comparisons with any of the above becomes an apples to oranges proposition because Kansas does any number of things bass ackwards from the comparison state.


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244581 02/16/17 05:30 PM
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rccokeley Offline
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Originally Posted By: BigBlue6
Here is what I get .... that it is a bush league practice to have any portion of your state series at any level for any style use satellite or home site or anything other than shoulder to shoulder weigh ins. Period.

For the last time we use satellite weigh-ins to help increase our number of participants. Without the satellite weigh-ins there may not even be a Freestyle and Greco State tournament. You've had a bad experience with them and now you want them to go away, and that is understandable. However there are simple solutions to fix the cheating problem. We discussed one in PM and Doug Eck (smartest man alive if you ask me) came up with one that can work as well.

Originally Posted By: BigBlue6
To find that our state does this in the face of the exclusion of Kansas having a voice in the NFHS is disappointing to say the least. Furthermore, I am of the mind that the fact that Kansas uses satellite weigh ins for the state freestyle/greco CHAMPIONSHIP is directly related to this regional home site folkstyle issue in the sense that there are apparently a whole lot of folks involved in KS wrestling decision making, on many levels, who simply don't get WHY satellite or home site weigh ins ARE A BUSH LEAGUE PRACTICE, or maybe they do get it and that's why KS has them?

THE FACT THAT WE HAVE SATELLITE WEIGH-INS FOR FREESTYLE AND GRECO STATE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHY HIGH SCHOOL REGIONALS USES HOME-SITE WEIGH-INS FOR THE THE FIRST WEIGH-IN. Freestyle and Greco is regulated by USAWKS while the High School Folkstyle season is regulated by KSHSAA. Two totally separate entities. It is not the fault of USAWKS that we don't get a vote at the NFHS, it is KSHSAA's. In fact if it we had the same guy who runs USAWKS, Mike Juby our State Chairmen, running KSHSAA then we would probably be getting to vote at the NFHS. THERE IS NOTHING MIKE JUBY DOES THAT IS BUSH LEAGUE. Every single decision he makes is for the betterment of Kansas Wrestling, and I am not the only one who believes that. Anyone who has worked with Mr.Juby can relate this.

Originally Posted By: BigBlue6
You can't go around tooting the horn of KS wrestling and how we deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with states like Oklahoma, Iowa or Pennsylvania when comparisons with any of the above becomes an apples to oranges proposition because Kansas does any number of things bass ackwards from the comparison state.

Its a numbers game. Go look at the number of participants we have for the USAWKS State Tournament and then go look at the number of participants at our Freestyle and Greco State Tournament. We simply do not have the same numbers for the summer styles that the states like Oklahoma, Iowa, PA, Illinois, or even Missouri has. Why are the numbers so low? Some kids want to focus on other sports during the summer time. Some kids simply want the summer off to relax and have fun. There are other factors as well but I don't need to go over all of them. And if you think we are not doing enough to get those numbers up you are DEAD WRONG. The list of people that dedicate their summers to grow the summer styles is way too long for me to type out. There are opportunities like trips to Okie State to wrestle in their room and learn from the greatest freestyle technician of our time, camps with Greco Olympians, trips to Akron, OH to compete AND watch some of the best college wrestlers wrestlers battle to make a University World Team, trips to California to wrestle foreigners in Greco, and trips to Las Vegas to compete AND watch the US Open. These are just A FEW of the opportunities that we present to the kids that want to get better over the summer. But we still find our selves struggling to get our participation numbers up every summer. We even have FREE practices once a weak around the state for kids to go to.

This will be the last time I respond to you on this matter Mr.Bluel and if you are still struggling to understand why we do things in the summer the way we do them then I suggest you talk to your son's future high school Coach. Hopefully he can talk some sense into you.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: rccokeley] #244586 02/16/17 07:15 PM
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BigBlue6 Offline
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the numbers speak for themselves as to whether we are doing enough, if they are down, we are not. The people who need sense talked into them are the people who, in the face of falling numbers, will tell a forum of readers that we as a state are doing all of the right things we can do. This is precisely what is wrong with this state in terms of wrestling governance right now. We can't do anything different because then it won't be the same is ignorance. Satellite/home site weigh ins ARE bush league which is why the non bush league states that surround us don't use them in ANY or their championship series. We would do well to follow their example in this and many other things. Just because you say something isn't so doesn't make it not so grasshopper.


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: BigBlue6] #244587 02/16/17 07:35 PM
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Teamroper Offline
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Doug Eck (smartest man alive if you ask me)

Now you are just talking crazy....lol


Tracy Peterson
Buhler, KS
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Teamroper] #244609 02/17/17 02:01 AM
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doug747 Offline
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I didn't think Ryne drank either........maybe he is hitting the sauce a bit.

Let me ask this.....perhaps we should try on site weighins for FS GR state. If our numbers magically increase, we've solved the problem. Maybe everyone is just sitting at home, and won't participate in our FS GR state until they KNOW everyone made weight honestly. I'm with some of you who are skeptical about whether kids actually make weight or not at home site, or even some satellite, weigh ins. I just figure since it is only kids' wrestling, it won't kill my kid to wrestle a dishonest kid, and it will give him an opportunity for me to not allow him to use "he was huge" as an excuse. I also understand that there are some kids out there that are really good at cutting weight. MOre power to them. There are lots of ways this sport teaches us life lessons, and the discipline of making weight is one of them. So if you are cutting, and making weight honestly, i tip my hat to you. You are mentally tough. If you ask people to fudge for you, or flat out don't weigh in at all, then i believe you will also be dishonest when you get into the real world, and you are going to have a rough go of it in real life.

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: doug747] #244610 02/17/17 02:04 AM
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doug747 Offline
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Doug Eck might not be the smartest man alive, but Tracy is a fart smeller, i mean smart feller..........

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: doug747] #244611 02/17/17 02:23 AM
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rccokeley Offline
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Just goes to show I don't know very many smart people after all, right Doug? Lol

Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: doug747] #244612 02/17/17 02:52 AM
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Teamroper Offline
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Originally Posted By: doug747
Doug Eck might not be the smartest man alive, but Tracy is a fart smeller, i mean smart feller..........


Especially when I'm at a Brawlers open room.


Tracy Peterson
Buhler, KS
Re: Weigh ins for State and Regionals [Re: Teamroper] #244723 02/21/17 03:01 AM
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BigBlue6 Offline
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It's not only kids wrestling, it is through the high school age divisions


The opinions herein are Mr Bluel's alone and are not that of OSHS, Falcon Empire or any other entity
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