For the kids

The officiating this weekend when it came to the wrestlers of TOHK was terrible. Basically the officials were deciding the outcome of the matches instead of the kids. If you have a personal problem with a coach or a fan/parent of TOHK, you deal with them (they can be kicked out, that's what the rules are for) but don't take it out on the wrestlers. If you have a personal vendetta against a coach or fan/parent don't take it out on the kids wrestling for that club. Made it seem like there was a big conference and that it had been decided that they were out to get TOHK. The officials were not officiating using fair judgment nor were they being consistent.
Hopefully something can be done to get this resolved so that it doesn't continue. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be about the kids not about the coaches or fans/parents nor the officials.

Maybe you can be more specific. How were the officials "terrible" towards TOHK kids? With all of the officials at the tournament it is hard to believe and really needs some form of validation. I agree the kids should never be blamed for the problems, but sometimes the problems with the kids and with a particular match can be blamed on the coaches, parents and others, including even the kids themselves. This does not always fall on officials. You refer to "fair judgment" again, please be specific before alluding to an official conspiracy against TOHK.

Be careful!

I watched hundreds of matches and kept track of at least 25 brackets. There were some glaring differences with stalling calls from ref to ref, but overall I was impressed with the officiating. I saw several TOHK matches and saw no pattern in the calls going for or against them. I can remember two in particular that I believe were in their favor.

byzzy, I think you are not alone in the feeling that calls are going against you. Each of us watch our own wrestlers with passion and tend to remember those calls that go against us. I know from our club, I can give you extreme detail on the calls that went against us and those that I agreed with were just part of the match.

- Eric Johnson

I dont know if anyone has ever suggested or brought it up at the state meeting, but I am going to suggest that the officials for KS Kids State be hired from another State. If these refs had no ties with these KS clubs, kids or families I think it would stop a lot of these problems. It would also be nice if they were all up on rule changes and rules in general. It would also be nice to be able to screen them so we would know if they had a double digit IQ. This year at State was the worst officiating I have ever seen.

The officials and clock can not beat your kid. Get the takedown, get the escape or reversal, and score some back points. Leave no doubt in the mind of the official that you convincingly scored points in a timely manner. That is what I tell our kids, parents, and coaches. I thought the officiating was fair and they did a good job. Some of our matches for our club did not come out the way we would have liked but our kids did not do enough in some of those matches. The effort was there - but technically they just did not finish a few things with power. End of story.

Terrible post, if you have a problem with an official talk to the head ref and he will watch the match. Officials are not out to get the kids, but if you need to find a scapegoat as to why your kid loss I guess they are the easiest targets.

This was probably not the best officiating in the state of Kansas. For the year, the D1 Subs at Holton had the best officiating I saw. But overall, state had good officials, especially considering the pay they get for a long day and the pressure they are under. They have to love the sport to do it. And, I agree with Smokycabin, your kid, and mine, just needs to put themselves in a position where there is no question who won. If you really have a problem with the officials go to a tournament in Missouri, especially at Liberty when they know you are out of state and they know the coach of the kid you are against. You will love Kansas officials.

SmokeyCabin, I agree with you. Out perform your comp. and I'm sure all else will fall in place. There are always exceptions to that but most matches are won by the wrestler who works for the entire match start to finish. If you go out there and lay it all on the line , win or lose there will be nothing to cry about. Thats what we tell our wrestlers. Did anyone else see the total disrespect by several wrestlers during the finals faceoff ? Its to bad some wrestlers(immature little kids) had to shake hands with cell phones in one hand. I really wish that their coaches had explained to them what a great honor it is to be a state finalist, they have no idea how immature they looked and acted. They want to get noticed , WRESTLE ON THE MAT LIKE A TRUE CHAMPION!!!!!!! That will turn heads and get them noticed!!

If you would like to complain against the officials, then I'd suggest starting with all the coaches in your District. As it stands now the coaches in the District vote on their favorite official's they'd like at State. So it's up to your coaches in your District to decide who's at State. So it may not be the best official's there, but the most liked. If you don't like it change it.

The reff on matt 13 was by far the worst reff I have ever seen. There were at lease 13 diffent teams that we saw that had trouble with the reff. I think this one reff did more harm to the rest of the good official than we will ever know and its bad for kids and the parents who come to watch and pay high prices for food and drinks to have to set there and watch a bad reff take away a win from any kid because of what he thinks he knows.

Thats what I was suggesting in my "terrible post". We can change it from the good ole boy system to something thats fair to the kids. Bring refs in from Oklahoma, Nebraska, Missouri.

deeohh, while I know that you think your suggestion would bring some great benefit, it would in fact do the exact opposite. Kansas already has enough problems recruiting new officials, and an even more taxing problem keeping the ones that we have for precisely the issue this topic brings to mind. That is a lack of respect my coaches and fans towards officials.

Granted good officials should have a thick skin when it comes to negative comments made towards them. And even more importantly they should work to make sure they get better as officials all the time. But the simple fact is that the constant nagging and complaining starts to wear on you no matter who you are. You are faced with two choices, either ignore it and laugh it off which most do, or succumb to it and stop officiating which a good number also do.

Whats bad about your idea is it just takes one more reason for officials continuing to do what they do out of the equation. Now you start telling officials that they don't get post season work here in Kansas and instead we are going to bring in officials from other states? Ummm I don't think so sir. Alex is right we've got a good ole boy system here in Kansas, and I doubt there are too many people here in Kansas that hate it more than I do. But until club leadership starts bringing up the issue at state body meetings it isn't going to change.

It is an idea "out of hast" Tiger, but I do believe we should change our way of selection. I will ponder and hopefully we can come up with something better.

Another possible way would be to have the district reps watch all the official's in his/her district and select based upon their observations, but again it comes to politics.

I don't think there is a way around it except to have the officials vote on their own personal choice of the best refs.

I agree with you the system is bad. I only wish we had a system similar to California. They have a system of impartial evaluators they evaluate each official wishing to work post season. The head man in NCAA Lynn Dyche is a part of this system and I think its a great idea. Unfortunatly I don't think we have enough people here in Kansas that care enough to be a part of this.

Not to re-ignite any old flames but how about when the "Official-of-the-Year" was elected by the State but still wasn't an official at State... Again it's all politics.

Countdown- I would have to think it to be a conflict of interest but in stating that I must admit that I have officiated several of my own cousin's matches. If there was such a problem with it I would think Lauren Anthony would be the person to direct the attention to at the State meet.

It is just the impression. Randy H has started a similar thread on the Refs forum I believe that says Refs are being discouraged from coaching or even being matside of a wrestler they are rooting for.

Itwould be very easy, I think, for a ref to be swayed if another ref is in a corner yelling thats two or thats backpoints.

I agree with countdown, referees should NEVER be coaching or cheering for any particular person when they are in uniform.

I too find it a conflict of interest to officiate matches of family memebers whether close or distant it doesn't matter. But sometimes it's hard to find the rover or have his rove time meeting up with when you wish to defer a match to him to avoid a conflict of interest. Sometimes you just have to deal with it, but in this case I would think it is a personal choice of conflict of interest and thus unethical.

How many times can you cry wolf before everybody looks the other way?

I worked the table at mat 8 all day Sunday. I can remember about 6 or 8 different refs that switched in and out throughout the course of the day. Some were awesome at their job, they made eye contact with me before each start and were clear and sharp as they awarded points. Others, however, would start the match without even acknowledging the table, were sloppy when awarding their points and I saw one ref repremand a wrestler for not stopping on his whistle. I only mention the whistle repremand because of all the times I've seen wrestlers stop from a whistle on an adjoining mat, I have coached kids to wrestle until they are touched by the ref. Maybe I'm wrong for coaching this, but the awesome refs that I mentioned earlier were up and down and in and out and all over the mat with an eagles eye on the action. The ref that(in my opion)was much " harder" on the wrestlers then need be never even bent over at the waist during the matches he oversaw. As a coach and a wrestlers father, I have learned that in words similar to those of Forrest Gump, "Officials are like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get". The truly awesome officials will get their recognition, while the others will just get a paycheck. My point is, we take the good with the bad, the lucky calls that go in our favor and the ones that seem to help our opponents and at the end of the day we hang up the singlets and look forward to the next chance we have to rule the mat, hoping that we don't get that same ref.(ha ha)