A Little Girl's Story

2 years ago I was approached by my daughter, "Dad I want to wrestle". I told her that it was a tough sport and that she would have to wrestle against the boys. She said she still wanted to wrestle. So at the next practice I took both of my daughters to sign them up. They got their head gear and shoes on, then started to jog with the team. After 5 min of running I was approached by a gentleman. He said that the girls couldn't wrestle without USA cards. I told him that we would go ahead and pay him for them. Then what he told me was a bit disturbing, "Our club doesn't allow girls to wrestle". I couldn't believe what I had just heard. So without any conflict I told the girls that they couldn't wrestle. The coach told me later that they are affiliated with the High School and if one of the boys came up against a girl they were to forfeit. Which I soon came to realize this doesn't happen. After the season was over I decided that I wasn't going to allow a club to discriminate against my girls. So I decided go to a different club. My daughter was finally able to wrestle. Then that year towards the end of the season we attended a BBQ at a friend's house. While there we started talking and I made the comment that we were coming back to wrestle for our former club. Then out of the blue my daughter was discriminated against once again. A board member of the club says, "I don't think so we don't allow girls to wrestle". (In a very rude tone). Once again I let it go.
We go to Oklahoma to wrestle and we get to hear," Break her arms". That was something a 6 year old just couldn't understand. On numerous occasions she has been approached and told that this is a boy's sport. That is why I have decided to tell her story. This weekend at the Classic, my daughter was in the finals against a boy from our former club. The second she got put to her back the club went crazy. They were screaming as if they had just won the state title. That is not what bothered me though it was when we got home my daughter asked why everyone was against her and that a boy from a club that wears red and black singlets approached her right after the match and tells her that this a boys sport. All I ask is that everyone treat these girls like wrestlers. After all, that's what they are. What about the parents and coaches that hang crap on a boy that gets beat by a girl? It shouldn't be any different. I don't come home and tell her she got beat by a boy. It's time to realize that girls are becoming a big part of this sport and are very successful. To the mothers and fathers of the boys that have approached my daughter I hope that you are teaching your sons how to respect women. We are not looking for special treatment my daughter just wants to be treated like a wrestler and not someone trying to fit in. To all the girls that wrestle if you have any stories like this I would like to know how bad this subject really is. Feel free to email me at BriMisAnd7@sbcglobal.net. I would like to also say congratulations to Jake Leckliter for his win this weekend and another good match. See you guys soon.

Brian Andres

Wrestlingdad02,

My compliments for your daughter wrestling in the finals of the Classic. Its a very tough tournament and I agree with you that girls should be able to wrestle for what ever club they like. Also I have seen some girls that can stand in there with the best of them. I also have a daughter who is wrestling for our club and she enjoys it very much. Good luck at subs and districts.

Hmmmmmmm...

Let's see:

Rosehill 12-08-01: Marissa Andres Champion
WWC Open 12-29-01: Marissa Andres Champion
Tulsa Nationals 01-19-02: Marissa Andres 6th
Salina TOC 01-26-02: Marissa Andres 3rd
Andale Invitational 02-16-02: Marissa Andres Champion
Maize Invitational 02-23-02: Marissa Andres Champion
Wichita Classic 03-02-02: Marissa Andres Champion
District II North Subs 03-16-02: Marissa Andres 3rd
(Against 8 year olds, no less)
Cliff Keen Kickoff 11-23-02: Marissa Andres 2nd
WWC Open 12-28-02: Marissa Andres Champion
Derby Open 01-04-03: Marissa Andres 2nd
(bumped up two weights)
Bulldog Classic 01-25-03: Marissa Andres Champion
(and 6yo Outstanding Wrestler)
Salina TOC 02-01-03: Marissa Andres Champion
Maize Open 03-01-02: Marissa Andres Champion
(again wrestling up a couple of weights)
Wichita Classic 03-08-03: Marissa Andres 2nd

This is definitely a little girl who should stay home and play with her Barbies.

All I can say is that if this resume doesn't shut the redneck pinheads up, apparently nothing will. There have been a lot of BOYS in her brackets that went home without any iron on their necks. Did you ever think that they root against her because they're tired of being spanked by her..LOL

Tough don't care how many X chromosomes you were born with...

We used to have a tough little wrestler in our club that had a MEAN baseball arm bar. The only wrestler I saw that wouldn't submit to the pain and go over was a GIRL. She and Robert wrestled many times, and she never gave him an inch.

Tell your daughter from me to ignore what idiots think, and to keep wrestling as long as she enjoys it. There will be a day when she has to give up bangin heads with the boys because she won't have the muscle mass to compete, but women's wrestling is the next big thing internationally.

Until then, Cher Chez La Femmes (watch out for the girls)

I'm glad someone finally brings this up. Not just Marissa, but for all the other girls in this sport who bust tail on a daily basis just to keep up with the boys. Girls are physically capable of things that boys can't do, especially when they are young. Girls most definetely have a place in this sport and if all of the sexist buttheads in this world can't figure that out, HOW SAD for them. All I would ask is judge the wrestler by the way that they wrestle, not by what gender, color, age, weight, ability or disability they may face. Isn't that the whole idea here anyway. After all, it is all for the kids, right?

Brian, I had no intent of replying to his message but am glad that you included the post. I think all of us should remember that we are talking about kids wrestling and that one of the things we need to do is consider that kids are going to be kids. Whoever said; “that words will never hurt,” were liars. I have seen parents become inappropriate at times, and know that I myself have been. This reminds me of how we can sometimes say things that hurt kids. It is unbelievable that a club would have the courage to deny a girl the right to participate now a days. I don't know who that club is but I do know that if they were ever challenged on this they could be in some serious trouble. To deny a child a right to participate because of a macho attitude is ignorant and backwoods. It is the same type of attitude that condones hazing and is one that should be wiped away from our sport. At one time basketball used to only be a man's sport but look at it now, it has grown into a sport on its own merit, and so will women's wrestling. I think it is important to realize that women's wrestling can help raise the popularity of the sport and help the sport in general which will benefit all wrestlers. It is a sad commentary that some would be so ignorant. Tell your daughter that she needs to stick with it if she loves it and that there are many out here who are pulling for her. The truth of the matter is, that unless things change, a good girls wrestler has a better chance at a college scholarship in wrestling than does a good boy's wrestler. I know that after reading this post, the next time I see a girl wrestling, I will applaud her.

Hey Brian

I just wanted to say thanks for another great finals match at the classic and let everyone know that last year at the classic Jake went home with 2nd and Marissa took home 1st. It is always a tough, good match between the two and not because she is a girl, but because she is a very outstanding wrestler and we take each match with her very seriously. I was excited to see them meet up in the finals again this year. I know there are some people that tease Jake when he has lost to her in the past, but I know that if you don't take her seriously on the mat, you will find yourself counting the lights in one of the meanest pin holds around. Just wanted to let everyone know that she is seated FIRST at subs, so get ready.

See ya later and best of luck on the mat,
Jeff Leckliter

Since I have a 6 and under wrestler I watched both the semi-final match that this young girl was in and the finals. The thing that struck me were the fan bases. In the semi-finals, if I remember correctly, she pinned her opponent pretty quickly. The boy is in tears and there is a lot of cheering. Same thing happened in the finals but the other way around.

How can a 6 year old not be intimidated by the FANS that are cheering so loud. And if you were standing around the mat #1 at either the semi's or the finals you know what I mean!

We all need to remember, not the fact that these are girls or boys but that they are 6 years old. It's bad enough when they lose but to have the fans going crazy in the stands because they just lost is not something that a 6 year old needs to deal with.

First of all,congrats to your daughter,she is a heck of a wrestler,boy or girl and you should be very proud of her. As for some of your other remarks let's not get carried away,I coach baseball,football and am big supporter of kid's wrestling and will be the first to tell you girl's mature physically alot quicker than boy's so am sure they would hold an advantage but can also tell you that once you step onto that mat that girl,boy whatever it's gametime and if that means being more physical than a girl at an later age than so be it,and for the break her arm statement that is totally uncalled for and is sickning,but before you point the finger,do you approach your other fellow coaches about saying something along those same lines????? didn't think so,and I know for a fact that you have been present when things like that have went down during matches so if the shoe fits,wear it,also let's look at it from a young mans point of view,I think until they reach 10-12 range it's ok,but even then it's getting pretty physical out there as far as touching,etc....I think there are lines that should not be crossed,at that age young women should wrestle young women,period>>>>

I agree, it is very hard for my 12 year old to wrestle a girl. That is an awkward age for both and then to have them intermingled and touching areas that are to be off limits. Not to mention the fact that most parents try to teach their sons not to be aggressive towards girls. Being a woman, I am for women being allowed the same opportunities as men in sports, but wrestling is a contact sport like no other.
I hope no one takes this personally, but I just don't feel that my son should be faced with such a moral dilema at this stage in his life (teenage years).

Matburn1011

Wow, you have made a lot of bold statements, only to hide behind a name. I never once in my post directly pointed out any one person as you did in yours. I was telling a story. I would personally like to thank the country that I live in for the right that my daughter has to choose to wrestle as long as she feels fit, regardless how uncomfortable someone else feels about it. It's her right. Which obviously you don't believe in equal rights. I am glad that you are not the one who decides where lines are drawn, because we wouldn't have pairs figure skating or yell leaders and cheerleaders doing lifts. The second thing I would like to address is the fact that the club we wrestle with was never mentioned in my previous post. But I knew someone would like to drag them into it. Well let me tell you I have never heard any coach on our team tell someone to break something on another kid's body. I consider them as family and always will. I will be the first to tell you and everyone else if something was said in that manner. I would be the first to address it with the coach, if something like that was ever said. So Mr. Matburn it seems the only one here pointing fingers is you and just remember for every finger you point you have three pointing right back at you. I didn't want this to go where it has but I felt I needed to answer for myself and not have you answer for me. That is my right as well. All I ask is that my daughter is treated like a wrestler and not someone that has to fit in. So if you would like to discuss this matter further without taking away from the original subject, please email me.

Thanks again
Brian Andres

i saw a gal at the FHSU College open at about the 157lb weight class 2 years ago pin a guy in about 23 seconds...keep living a dream Marissa...discrimination hits all sorts of people...not just the females of wrestling...if you aren't a high caliber talent like myself...you are overlooked by your work ethic for your record by a college...i had a subpar high school record...but I can also say that once i made a collegg team...I didn't quit and outlasted some guys with more talent in their pinky...take care and God Bless!!!

Aaron Sweazy

CATON: Consider this... During a wrestling match, adolescent males are contacting each other in ways that would MORTIFY them in a different setting. And I can just about guarantee that male-male sexuality issues are a much bigger bugaboo for them than male-female issues.

I would agree with you about the issue of protective-towards-females conditioning...up to a point. When someone has you in a head-lock and is squeezing off your air, I would be willing to bet that their gender is not your immediate concern..

Bottom line: during hand-to-hand combat, sexual issues are not foremost in the mind.

Bulldog dad,

I pretty much agree. I know when my son is on the mat he is ok with it to some degree, but before the bout he seems a little bothered by it. Maybe I am to blame. I do know for a fact that my son will not do certain moves on a wrestler if the wrestler is a girl (out of respect) and I commend him for that.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I agree but I still have concerns. In fact, if my sons (I have a 7 year old also) are not wrestling the girls I am usually cheering them on. Being a female, I am torn between the two sides and can see the frustration on both sides.

I want to make it very clear that I do not condone any parent or coach who yells out for a wrestler to injure a wrestler in any way or form. I have seen it from another male wrestlers dad when he wrestled my son. I was furious!!!! We as the adults need to realize, wrestling at this age is to prepare for high school and college. For every bout you lose, you learn something from it to make you a better wrestler.

Julie Caton

Good luck to all the girls out there!

Just a Postscript:

The whole issue of females competing in athletics is ages-old, and needs to be left in the past. Heck, I can remember when women weren't allowed to run in marathons becauses "medical experts" said their uteruses would "fall out"...LOL

Humans are humans...and either you have "Warrior" in your make-up, or you don't.

I hate to even mention the word gymnastics on this site, but anybody remember a little gal named Karrie Strug?

Thinking about her having the guts to stick that landing with a taped-up broken leg still makes me fall out.

The typical 14 yo Spartan girl of 3000 years ago would destroy the typical 14 yo boy today, and probably eat his liver as a victory celebration.

Our attitudes about boys/girls are all about social conditioning, and not based in reality.

I'm sorry, but I vehemently disagree. We have girls in our club, and as long as we do, I will help them in any way I can. But deep down, I disagree with it. Boys and girls are NOT equal. Not until boys can get pregnant. When I was in the military, they rammed equality down your throat. It was tough to swallow when women had different rules for push-ups and didn't have to shave their heads. I couldn't help but notice a previous posting where a boy was commended for not using certain moves on girls. Kind of hypocritical isn't it? Is a girl just another wrestler or not? How do I teach my son to never be agressive towards females and then throw a cross-face on one on Saturday mornings? I adore my daughters, and I tell them that they should be proud of who they are. They are not better or worse than boys, but they are undeniably not the same. Can you imagine the outcry if 6 boys went out for a girls' volleyball team in high school, and spiked their way to a state championship? A previous post refered to gymnast Kari Strug. I notice she wasn't competing in the mens' events. Do you advocate olympic men & women gymnasts all in the same class? Why not? If girls' are no different, can I enter my son in a girls' wrestling tournament? For that matter, why are there girls' wrestling tournaments? Isn't that discrimination against boys?
It's not discrimination at all. It's common sense. Seperating girls and boys is not sexist or discriminatory. We should teach our kids to be confident in who they are.

In regards to my post where I commend my son for not using certain moves on a girl. I did not state that I agreed to the idea of girls wrestling boys. I meerly stated that I commend his actions in not doing certain moves that he felt were inappropriate. In latent terms I am proud of the fact that he can respect a girl on and off the mat. It may not be fair, but who is it not fair to? Therefore it is not hypocritcal. Being I female, I wish to keep those beliefs to myself, I am a strong believer in the right to ones opinion and do not wish to be judged for my personal opinion as so many are on this forum.
I too have often wondered what would happen if I entered him in a girls tournament but I would never put him through that situation. This will sound horrible coming from a female, but I told my son if he didn't make the football team he should try out for volleyball. I was given the "get real" look from my son.
To set the record stright the only thing I have agreed with is that at the 11+ age I do not agree with girls and boys wrestling each other and that boys would feel awkward in certain positions with other boys outside of wrestling.

As for cheering on the girls, what am I supoose to do? I am a female!!!

AMEN DDAD!!!

I have no problem with girls wrestling, but they do have an affair advantage. Moral Intimidation! We are telling our boys to open doors, do not hit, defend a girl if another boy is picking on her, etc. etc. etc. But now we are saying --- "Treat her like a boy!" This is a double standard.

Certain moves are not appropriate? What if that was the move that could have won a match against this "equal"? Thumbs up for handing the match to her because you didn't deem the move appropriate for a girl, but would have used it and won if it was a boy.

Someone mentioned Volleyball --- a boys' team is not offered at the High School level, but my son likes to play Volleyball (and there is a Men's team for the Olympics). What are my chances of getting him on the girl's team because it is not offered to boys? Slim to none.

Girls should be wrestling girls! Boys should be wrestling boys!

I am glad my son has not been put in a "losing" situation with a girl. He usually tech's them, otherwise, I don't know what he would have done!! He is already hard enough on himself after he loses to a boy where there wasn't such dilema!!!!

Caton:
Don't get me wrong, I commend your son as well in that situation. I just don't think he should have to be in the situation to begin with. Outwardly, I will support the girls as avidly as I support the boys (for the girl's benefit) - but internally that doesn't mean I agree with it.

Well stated Ddad!

My son has wrestled Marisa sevral times and has never beat her but he doesnt look at losing to her any different then when he loses to Jake.Maybe its his age but to him a win is a win a loss is a loss and a wrestler is a wrestler.

Age is a consideration here. They're all cute at 6 & under. But as they get older, I don't think it's fair to either the boy or the girl. Also as the age increases, so does the peer pressure. His 6 year old buddies may not care if he gets beat by a girl, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts that his 12 year old friends will.

This topic started out talking about a 6 year old girl. Now this topic has branched out into many different area's. The emotion involved in a 6 year old boy wrestler wrestling a 6 year old girl wrestler for sure seems to bother the parents more than the two children on the mat. Maybe Canton should of said "I don't know what I would of done if my boy lost to a girl". The kids many times after a match will play and forget about what happened on the mat, while the parents are still brewing over there problem. If a wrestler makes weight and steps on to the mat respect that wrestler. The two athletes should not change the intensity of the match. The wrestler that changes his or her intensity isn't repecting the other wrestler. Many boys have lost to girls, many girls have lost to boys. A win is a win a loss is a loss. If for any reason the question pops in your mind "I don't know what I would of done if my boy lost to a girl", there must be other issues with either the parent or the child. Most likely the parent! My son did loose to a girl once when he was 5 he is now 10 everthing is going ok so far.

MVNUP,

I know what I would have done! I would have told him he did a good job and gone on with it like I always do!!!!! I tell both my boys, win or lose in my eyes you are always a winner if you try.

My son does respect any wrestler who walks on the mat, if it happens to be a girl he will just respect you a little differently. If he loses he will not just go play, he will think of what he did wrong and what he could have done different (on his own) because he is very competitive.

I had to talk my seven year old into wrestling a girl. He banged her up a little during the match and was pretty upset about having hurt a girl. After a long search he found her to apologize and felt a little better but he still is eery about it.

I'm through on this topic, my thoughts seem to intensify the fire.

Good luck Marissa, no pun on you just trying to let people understand how a wrestler can feel uncomfortable:I

Add a couple of more years to your son and see how he handles certain moves on her and him.

Julie

I have 2 sons (16 and 8) and have 1 daughter (14). All of my children are athletes. My sons are both wrestlers and what I say to them is when you are on the mat, the person on the other side is your opponent, regardless of wether they are a boy or girl, most of the people they wrestle are friends, but on the mat we take care of business, off the mat we can be friends. If a girl is accross from them, they are to treat her no different then if it was a good friend of theirs. She is not going to give them any special treatment. I have never said to purposely harm someone, but I also have never told them to treat their opponent different, just because it was a girl.

As far as my daughter is concerned she has never expressed to us that she wanted to wrestle, I think she gets enough of it at home. And I personally would not want her to, unless it was an all girl team. I feel there are enough sports out there for her to excell at such as volleyball, softball, track, gymnastics, cheerleading, soccer, golf, tennis, basketball, etc....

Now this is just my personal opinion, but I thought I would put my 2 cents in on this subject.

I think this is an excellent topic, and I'm glad it is being discussed. Communication helps solve anything.

I think out of all the posts that Ddad has put it best and mvpup? your wrong the original post was not all about a 6 year old girl is was about a 6 year old girl who was trated unfairly that is what opened up the can of worms
Brian-your right you are a bigger man than I because you put your name on here,what would my name prove,so you can confront me this saturday and things escalate from there,if you want to talk to me face to face that's fine,we can make it happen,as for your remarks about bringing your club into this,,,plzzzzzzzzzzz bro,u think people here are stupid,all your post was about was slandering those two clubs that wouldn't let your daughter compete,I mean everyone and ther brother knows who you are talking about,we all know who you wrestled for,right or wrong,so before you go riding off in the sunset on your white horse preaching how good of guy you are let's not be hypocritical I did the same thing you did and will stand behind my BOLD STATEMENTS

I know better than to touch this topic with a ten foot pole for many reasons. All I have to say is...THIS IS WHY WE STARTED A GIRLS TEAM FOR KANSAS!!!!!!!!!!! Now to all the people with all the opinions, just consider this. Why not spend our time and energy on supporting the up and coming team for girls to wrestle girls, right here in the state of Kansas. We currently have over 50 girls actively participating in girls only meets, we have taken many medals already and have many more to come. We are planning our first big trip to St. Joseph, MN, to wrestle in a National USAW tournament that should have 500-1000 girls entered. We have singlets, warmups, hair caps that match and a lot of very tough girls. Our coaching staff is highly qualified with coaches that carry a high level of integrity and we strive to produce wrestlers that can not only deliver "the win" but also be a productive member of society when wrestling is finished. We have a website that can be reached by clicking on "girls division" on this home page. Thanks you for your time and if you really want to support girls wrestling, we can show you how.

Sincerely,
Ed and Jennifer Edison
Kansas Krusaders

Matburn 1011

Once again here we are. Treated unfairly yes, looking for sympathy no. As I read my original post I see that I was talking about one club not two. As far as escalating and approaching you, I will not. I just want the wrestling community to see the dragon that hides within. If you would like to discuss this face to face that is fine too. (In no way is that a threat as some will assume.) Those that know me know that I am very laid back and enjoy watching my kids progress. Obviously, you have taken this subject to heart, because you act as if you are trying to defend yourself by defussing my original post. They always say fight fire with fire, but if you are trying to get me, you have no fire. So if you would like to show the dragon within feel free to email me.
I would like to thank Coach Ed for starting a girls team. My only concern is that I can pay 10 dollars for a good match in an open tournament, or pay $30 for girls state. If the sport is to prosper we need to work on the entry fee. Fewer girls don't mean higher prices. In closing I must say we will continue to wrestle boys or girls, who ever happens to be in her bracket. For any other comments to me please email me.

Thanks for all the support
Brian Andres

Coach Ed:
Nice Job. Best of luck to you and the Kansas girls' team. I think it's a fantastic idea, and I hope the girls fully appreciate the measures you've taken for them. The world would be a better place if more people took positive action.

That being said- if someone put together a "boys only" league or tournament, what do you suppose folks would say? Unfortunately- THAT would be sexist and discriminatory. I think Martha Burke (the lady trying to get women admitted at Augusta National Golf Club) would raise heck!

Yeah, I did mention Karie Strug, as an example of pure guts, which as I mentioned, knows NO gender.

By the way, I'll preface the rest of this with the fact that I'm full-blown anti-Title IX, because of the methods of implementation. I'm glad for the girls, but a few foam-at-the-mouth groups (who will remain nameless) have screwed over boys sports in the name of "equality".

I would agree with you that there IS a cut-off point for co-ed competition in virtually any sport, as adult women can't simply compete with adult men, assuming equal talent and game savvy.

This, however is simply a question of muscle mass, body fat percentage, cardiovascular capacity, etc.

Heck, even in the "pure skill" sports such as archery (men can pull a higher weight bow, resulting in a flatter trajectory), bowling (men can throw a heavier ball, with more momentum into the pocket), etc. men have an advantage.

On the other hand, I would like to see the US Women's Soccer Team play the best H.S. boy's team in the US. The women would kill..LOL They're some (pardon my French) tough broads.

But...until well into adolescence, this point is moot. And does ANYBODY think Marissa would have gotten as good as she is by competing against the same 2 or 3 girls several times a year? There's currently just not enough female competition to go around.

Let the kid (6 year old) wrestle co-ed until it becomes an issue....hopefully by then girl's wrestling will have caught on better. She'll know when to stop wrestling boys better than any of US.

I'll shut up now...just the rantings of a reformed sports sexist...and you know the reformed are the most rabid...LOL

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the support this weekend, Marissa really appreciate's your support.
Cara