Theoretical Grand State

we've talked about all kansas teams, who the best class is, etc. so if we had a grand state, who would win each weight? i'll give my picks, dont crucify me to bad because i probably will be biased toward the big classes simply because i havent seen as much small class wrestling. i'm picking only out of the state camps.
103- Slyter Paola...this was a hard pick. i would have gone with keller but he got upset, i think slyter won the toughest of the 103 brackets.
112- Keller, Bishop Carroll...easy pick here. only loss on the season was to furches, he also beat furches. and keller dominated his bracket at state.
119- Hansen, Turner...undefeated state champ, on the right day cox could beat him but since cox got 4th in 4A i have to go with hansen. may be a different story had cox been healthy for his tournament.
125- Caldwell, Goddard...has yet to lose to kansas opponent in his career. 2 state titles, pinned his way to the finals, i dont think theres much debate on the best 125lber in the state.
130- Broeckelman, Norton...undefeated and dominated his bracket. unfortunate we couldnt see him match up with bahe, ely is also really good but almost got upset in the semis. this would be a fun grand state bracket.
135- Isenberg, Gardner...only loss was to henes. he had beat henes earlier and beat henes again at state. handed almaguer his only loss of the year. almaguer handled napier without much trouble so i think isenberg is the logical choice.
140- dont really know...arnold i guess? i guess no one in this weight has stood out to me this year.
145- Pyle, Sabetha...dominated his bracket at state, undefeated.
152- Koehn, Pittsburg...undefeated, didnt get close to losing at state, has impressed me the time or two i've been able to see him.
160- Beard, Goddard...2nd state title, closest match at state was a 9-2 win. really tough kid.
171- Cotton, Hutch...undefeated, 3rd state title, kid should be a 4Xer, i dont think anyone in kansas can touch this kid.
189- Evans, Hutch...beat elliot 4-0 in the finals. also beat mamie 4-2. i thought those 3 kids made 189 5A one of the toughest around and evans won it.
215- Back, Liberal...pinned his way to the finals and then won 10-4 there. dominant kid.
285- Zlatnik, Rossville...i love atticus disney as a heavyweight but i think you got to give zlatnick the ever so slight edge since hes older and disney did have 2 one point matches at state. you cant go wrong with either of those two kids though.

That leaves me with...
3A- 3 grand state champs.
4A- 2
5A- 6
6A- 2
i'm not really coutin 140 since i really dont know. what do you all think?

I disagree with 130 and 145.

I think its Ely, Bahe, then Broekelman at 130. Detmer and Pyle would be really close.

130 could probably go a lot of different ways.

103 could put Stokes in there or Keller I think that those three are about as close as it gets. It seems that when Stokes a Slyter go at it the match is never long enough and it justs depends on when the clock runs out of time as who will end up with the point total. The grand state should be held the following week with 16 man brackets. I can be there on saturday if any body else is interested. at 130 you have got to give Living good some props he might just be the best overlooked wrestler in the state.

I dont think 112 is an easy pick. You must not have seen the Rogers kid. It would be a fun match to watch between those two.

Could disagree with several but it does not matter because you never know unless the wrestle.

yea, there are several that are probably controversial and you are right we won't know since they don't wrestle. i think this would be an exciting tournament though and part of this post was to perhaps create a little controversy and have people think about the potential of a grand state tournament. i'm sure a lot of people have thought of this but i put it out there. if we had a 16 man bracket, taking the top 4 placers from each class we would have some very exciting matchups.

130
ely, bahe, and broeckelman all going at it.

285
Andrus, Zlatnik, Disney

119
Cox-Hansen

135
Isenberg, Almaguer, Henes, Napier...


the list goes on and on. i'd really like to see a grand state in kansas. i think it would further the fan support and excitement of the spot.

How can you put Cox in at 119 wasn't he 4th or 5th at state?

cox was 4th, but he defaulted in the 3rd place match and its pretty well known hes one of the top 119s in the state. he was sick at the state tournament and clearly nowhere near 100%. not to take anything away from the kids who placed above him but i believe he wins it if hes healthy. and i'm not talking because i'm a big cox fan, i really dont like his attitude and all on the mat; but realistically speaking hes a flat out stud and hansen is probably the only 119 in the state that i feel is better then him and thats not by much.

How can you not put him in. 36-2 last year in winning the State title as a Freshman, Going 27-3 again this year, only losing one match at State. Anyone that knows wrestling puts Hanson, Cox and Dooley at 1-2-3 at 119.

Bahe looked REALLY tough at state...not to flashy, just doesn't make mistakes

and as far as 140 goes...how could no one have stood out to you?? 140 grand state would have to be one of the tougher weights...and everyone beating each other you would have to go with (in no order)

Arnold
Buehler
Means

Cox shouldn't be in. A non State-Champ should not be considered. I've never seen Keller from Carroll wrestle, but it would take an unbelievable kid to beat Rogers of Smith Center at 112.

wrestle007...Interesting Thread: But I disagree, I would take Rodgers over Keller, but my guess is it would be a point either way. Don't get me wrong...Keller is the real deal, but Colt is equally as tough. It would be nice to see Keller, Furches, Rodgers, and Hase all in the same bracket. Plus throw in Cox who is not far from their weight and WOW what a great bracket that would be. And you can look at any weight class and combine the wrestlers and they would be about the same...STACKED. Kansas wrestling is definitely something to be proud of and takes a backseat to none Top to bottom.

At 112 I would have to take Keller, Rogers had a great season at 112, but watching them both, I would have to take Keller he's always dominating his opponents and does not make very many mistakes at all.

Top - I agree with most of your post. I don't think Kansas takes a back seat to anyone at the top end but there are plenty of states that are way deeper than us. However I believe we may be catching up.

Just to add a bit to the Hansen-Cox debate ..... it is a little known fact outside the world of obscure sports, but Paulie has unbelievable knee-hockey and naked frisbee skills ...... can Trent, outstanding wrestler that he is, take a man down AND catch a frisbee with his feet at the same time? ..... one day, watching the Hamburglar on "The Ocho" we will be able to say "we knew him when ...." (Sorry, I know this is a serious thread); I think our little chubby guy has done all he needs to warrant consideration as the top 119 in the state

you guys might be right on 112. as i mentioned i'd probably be biased towards bigger schools because i've seen them more. i've seen a lot more of keller then rogers.

chase-
i probably wasnt real clear on 140. it wasnt that there are no standouts at that weight, but no one stood out above anyone else to me making it hard for me to pick the champ.

my main point of this thread was not to pick 14 kids that everyone would agree with but to show how interesting a grand state could be. i believe kansas wrestling has improved a lot in the last few years and i'd like to see all our best on the mat together. its unfortunate that some of our state's top kids never see each other in high school season, and the only way i can see to really fix that is to have a grand state.

If you are going to have a "Theoritcal Grand State" then you have to use some criteria. I may be wrong but I thought when they used to have a Grand State they only invited the top 2 placers in each class.

If you only invite the top 2 placers then then Trent Cox wouldn't be there. Remember, this isn't about who is the best wrestler(If it was I would agree Trent should be right there). If you didn't finish in the top two in your class you don't get the invitation to Grand State. You need to take the top two in each class, with one vs. two and see who would come out.

For instance in Hvy Weight the bracket might look like this:

Zlatnick v. Hybsha
Holly v. Hutton

Andrus v. Wilger
Disney v. Wood

Just a reminder, you can still have a sort of grand state for especially the lighter weights at kids state. Unfortunately, a lot of wrestlers that can wrestle there don't.

disney-
yea i think we were using cox if the grand state was theoretically a 16 man bracket inviting the top 4 from each weight. i dont know if people would want to do it 8 man or 16. if we were going to do it i would be in favor of going 16 because everyonce in a while you get a bracket that is absolutly stacked and the kid who gets 3rd in one class would have won another. but your right, if we went with the criteria of top 2 get invited cox wouldnt be there.

mike-
you are right about kids state. however a high school grand state would include everyone and get a lot more publicity. i see very few high schoolers passing up the opportunity to wrestle at grand state as a lot pass up the opportunity to wrestle kids.

I would personally rather see a 5-person round robin. You would take the state champions from each class along with 1 at large wrestler. This at large wrestler could be selected by a board of coaches from each class. There would obviously be a handful of wrestlers that couldn't/wouldn't attend. Their slot would be handed down to the runner-up to that respective champion. Each wrestler would get 4 matches with the winner being decided by the best record. You're bound to have tied records with this format, so you have predetermined tie-breakers, ie...head to head record, most pins, least amount of points against, etc.
This format would alleviate the "I wish these two wrestlers would've wrestled each other" problem. I think it would still draw many college recruiters as well as a good fan base. If you know for a fact that wrestler A is going to go at it with wrestler B, you're gonna go. Just my 3 cents worth.....

For grand state I would rather see a dual. Take the state champs from each class and have them dual one another. State Championship coaches from each class would do the coaching. You could then Crown which class is the toughest and individual champs.

Just because i have nothing better to do...here are hypothetical brackets using the KSHSAA state pairings page as an example. (6A-A, 5A-B, 4A-C, 3-2-1A-D

103
C1Sharky Slyter, Paola
B4Kash Biddle, Arkansas City

D2Carlos Gallaway, Stockton
A3Brandon Goodwin, Lawrence,

B1Tyler Stokes, Gardner-Edgerton,
C4Darin Stroot, Andale

A2Austin Quarles, Blue Valley,
D3Jorden Bauer, Wabaunsee

D1Fransico Antillon, Scott City
A4Isaac Ruiz, Junction City

C2Derrick Weller, Piper
B3John Keller, Bishop Carroll,

A1Jeff Vesta, Manhattan,
D4Brandon Ray, Eureka

B2Dennis Wood, Lansing,
C3Zac Sparr, Rose Hill

112
A1Chase Nelson, Wichita Heights,
C4Logan Singular, Clay Center

D2Jace Campbell, Oakley.
B3Chase Nitcher, Valley Center,

C1Ryan Canale, Rose Hill
A4Chaz Lawrence, Olathe South

B2Tyler Williamson, Mission Valley,
D3Collin Hase, Silver Lake

D1Colt Rogers, Smith Center
B4Justin Rose, Emporia

A2Kuty Russell, Free State,
C3Callahan, Baldwin

B1Jordan Keller, Bishop Carroll,
D4Dan Weigel, Plainville

C2Zach Peters, Augusta.
A3Alonso Hernandez, Garden City,

119

C1Dustin Dooley, Concordia
A4Blane Williams, Blue Valley

D2Brendan Harshman, Chase County
B3Jimmy Stults, Valley Center,

A1Nathan McCormick, BV North,
C4Trent Cox, Andale

B2John Hagan, Kapaun,
D3Brad Augustine, Beloit

D1Aaron Patton, Wellsville
B4Sal Tovar, Emporia

C2Nick Rockhold, Baldwin
A3Kendric Maple, Wichita Heights,

B1Paulie Hansen, KC Turner,
D4Thain Brobst, Eureka

A2Jesse Barber, Dodge City,
C3Zach Jesseph, Chanute

125

D1Matt Migchelbrink, Atwood
B4Ian Seaton, Bonner Springs

A2Jake Tanenbaum, BV North,
C3Brent Luedke, Colby

B1Trison Graham, Arkansas City,
D4Zack Bainter, Norton

C2Dustin Bowen, Rose Hill
A3Kyle Blackburn, Garden City,

A1Tyler Caldwell, Goddard,
C4Chase Wells, Santa Fe Trail

D2Dustin Zahorsky, Phillipsburg
B3Seth Mertins, Valley Center,

C1Cameron Jesseph, Chanute
A4J.T. Kozlowski, Junction City

B2Marcus Walker, KC Schlagle,
D3Nate Watts, Burlington

130

D1Nathan Broeckelman, Norton
C4Benny Armstrong, Andale

B2Jordan Miller, Ottawa,
A3Anthony Livengood, BV North,

C1Josh Hinman, Labette County
D4Tommy Knapp, Lincoln

A2Jacob Wagner, Manhattan,
B3Kirk Godfrey, Arkansas City,

B1Brett Bahe, Great Bend,
A4Michael Arellano, Garden City

D2Wyatt Bechtel, Eureka
C3D.J. Cline, Wellington

A1Aaron Ely, Leavenworth,
B4Chad Harding, Winfield

C2Kevin Callahan, Baldwin
D3Trevor Rempe, Smith Center

135
B1Aldon Isenberg, Gardner-Edgerton,
C4Aaron Arb, Labette County

A2Bishop Price, Wichita South,
D3Cas Spangler, Beloit

C1C.J. Napier, Columbus
B4Joe Schridde, Great Bend

D2Pat Mosley, Wichita Independent
A3Eric Servin, Garden City,

A1Adam Almaguer, Olathe North,
D4Billy Benz, Eureka

B2Phillip Henes, St. Thomas Aquinas,
C3Alex Meisch, Wellington

D1Brent Swoyer, Rock Creek
A4Tucker Adams, Manhattan

C2Jamie Hosfelt, Marysville
B3Colby Crank, Hutchinson,

140
C1Josh Cauthon, Santa Fe Trail
D4Gage Reichert, Oberlin

B2Kyle Buehler, Lansing,
A3Daniel Gonzales, Garden City,

D1Brad Esterl, Beloit
C4AJ Stephans, Goodland

A2Steve Miller, Manhattan,
B3Jeremy Plott, Salina South,

B1Mitch Arnold, Bishop Carroll
A4Marc Sommers, Free State

C2Chris Watson, Andover Central
D3Dustin Warta, Scott City

A1Mitchell Means, Goddard,
B4Robby McClung, Mission Valley

D2Justin York, Smith Center
C3Derek Koehn, Pittsburg

145
D1Jason Pyle, Sabetha
C4Travis Budke, Thomas More Prep

B2Nick Flynn, Lansing,
A3Jordan Edison, Wichita Northwest,

C1Aaron Hynick, Rose Hill
D4Jeff Soderlund, Norton

A2Ryan Houlden, Goddard,
B3Mark Millstead, St. Thomas Aquinas,

B1Kyle Detmer, Bishop Carroll,
A4Patrick Whisennand, Dodge City

D2Nick Kough, Scott City
C3Jordan Brown, Pittsburg

A1Zach Hentzen, Maize,
B4M.J. Bland, KC Turner

C2Jon Arveson, Chapman
D3Kade Bloom, Phillipsburg

152
C1Tyler Koehn, Pittsburg
D4Blake VanEaton, Norton

A2Bryant Petty, Manhattan,
B3Scott Markey, St. Thomas Aquinas,

D1Jordan Gienger, St. Francis
C4Kyle Hudgins, Spring Hill

B2Cameron Riojas, Arkansas City,
A3Lance Serbousek, BV Northwest,

A1Brandon Bonewell, Goddard,
B4Travis Kehler, Topeka Seaman

C2Blake Willmann, Clay Center
D3Lakin Dreiling, Scott City

B1Pete Tapia, Winfield,
A4Coty Reinhart, Derby

D2Jordan Meyer, Sabetha
C3Sam Thoman, Andale

160

B1Jared Brown, Shawnee Heights
A4Alex Feldkamp, Derby

D2Jason Corwin, Silver Lake
C3Joey Hambleton, Labette County

A1Boaz Beard, Goddard,
B4Grant Hinckley, Lansing

C2Judd Schroeder, Andale
D3Kelly Younkin, Oakley,

D1Ryan Patterson, Garden Plain
C4Dakota Hall, Fort Scott

B2Tanner Cody, Bishop Carroll,
A3Cole Rightmeier, Manhattan,

C1Kyle Allen, Clay Center
D4Cody Hanel, Beloit

A2Phil Witt, Leavenworth,
B3Paul Markey, St. Thomas Aquinas,

171
C1Asher Riner, Pratt
A4Matt Lange, SM Northwest

B2R.J. Nill, St. Thomas Aquinas,
D3Luke Brin, Plainville

A1Casey Curran, BV North,
C4Chris Stuart, Augusta

D2Matt Hyman, Beloit
B3T.J. Lorson, Topeka Seaman

B1Romero Cotton, Hutchinson,
D4Marshall Manning, Haven

C2Ben Davis, Clay Center,
A3Blake Long, Derby,

D1Derek Oswald, Effingham
B4Gavin Roach, Topeka West

A2Michael Webb, Wichita South,
C3Will Irvine, Chapman

189
D1Michael Malay, WaKeeney
A4James Landry, Topeka

C2Michael Baker, Smoky Valley
B3Jed Mamie, St. Thomas Aquinas,

A1Karl Oeser, Maize,
D4Matt Engstrom, Hoisington

B2Scott Elliott, Arkansas City,
C3Jameon Rush, Clay Center

C1Derek Heckel, Ulysses
B4Danny Smyl, Hays

D2Matt McGinty, SE-Saline,
A3Matt Baker, SM East,

B1Ben Evans, Hutchinson,
C4Steven Plummer, Circle

A2Klye Caylor, Wichita Northwest,
D3Trent Snyder, Sabetha,

215
A1Britt Carter, Maize,
C4T.J. Hawkins, Goodland

D2Kirk Palmer, Smith Center,
B3James Sparks, Emporia,

C1Jake Kober, Santa Fe Trail
A4Trey Page, Wichita Northwest

B2Jon Cook, Hays,
D3Damon Garcia, Herington,

D1Aaron Racette, Oakley
B4Alex Whitehill, McPherson

A2Jacup Richey, Wichita South,
C3Jaydan Bird, Andover Central

B1Joe Bach, Liberal,
D4Josh Stillwell, Eureka

C2Matt James, Clay Center
A3Kyle McTaggart, Lawrence

285
D1Duane Zlatnik, Rossville,
A4Lucas Vincent, Olathe North

C2Austin Hybsha, Andover
B3Josh Rodriguez, Emporia,

A1Steve Andrus, Manhattan,
D4Brock Euhus, Oberlin

B2Mitch Wood, Hutchinson,
C3Joe Payne, Paola

C1Atticus Disney, Andover Central
B4Nick Langford, KC Harmon

D2Brennon Wilger, St. Francis,
A3Brock Heithaus, Wichita Northwest

B1Chris Holly, Shawnee Heights,
C4Spencer Hilley, Clearwater

A2Trent Hutton, Wichita Southeast,
D3Alex Thomas, Norton

Lets do this when and were?
with no coaches.
pin to win.
one open period as long as it takes.

If the KSHSAA won't do it, then lets figure out a way to do it privately!

haha you must have had some time on your hands hugz. but yea, i'm glad you didnt because that bracket looks awesome.

dawg at heart-
i'd be cool with dual state as well. the thing tournament style does is allow a person to see how tough one bracket really is and see if so and so who got 4th in one classification could have won another classification. regardless though...i want to see it go down either way.