What's the rush KSHSAA?

For as long as I can remember my favorite thing about 321a state wrestling was the finals.  The second-to-none Parade of Champions followed by the finals, ONE MAT... ONE MATCH!!  The exclusivity of the championships set it on a pedestal above all other state tournaments I'd been to.

I understand the weather forced some changes.  But if the consolation finals can start at 2:30, why can't the finals follow one ONE MAT?  I remember not leaving the coliseum until 10pm back in the day.  Hell, we don't start regular season duals until 5:30.  Why a watered down version of the STATE FINALS at 2:30?  The weather is supposed to be great on both Saturday & Sunday should spectators decide to stay over following the tournament.

This is a hideous organizational let down for athletes who have worked their asses off to reach the ultimate High School wrestling achievement.  The snow may have gotten your long johns in a bunch, but let's pull them out and do this right for the wrestlers.  They deserve proper recognition for their accomplishments.  What's the rush?

Probably won't even get to hear Eye of the Tiger either, we'll have suffer through an Eminem song like in 2009.

I T-O-T-A-L-L-Y agree with Troy. This is the pinnacle of their high school wrestling career. The kids, coaches, families & fans are in the respective city. The snow falling has past. Since the kids started wrestling XX years ago, most look at the state tourney as the culmination of their entire wrestling career, why is there a cattle-call for the championship matches?

I see zero benefit in rushing thru the finals.

Can the decision to rush the finals be reconsidered??

Kevin Perz

I hope Kevin, hence the post. Can anyone help? Even if there's just an exception for Hays... What would it hurt?

I don't understand this at all. The weather looks fine with a zero percent chance for additional moisture. The 5th and 3rd place matches could begin at 2:30, with the finals starting darn near the original time of 4:30.

Safety needs to be the #1 priority, and I realize this week has produced extreme weather, but with no snow expected on Saturday, let's highlight the State Finals

And why not do the semifinals on Friday night, instead of the first round of consolation matches? I would venture to gues that there are more fans in attendance on Friday night for Semis matches, than there are for the finals. 5 match per day limit, correct? So they can wrestle ALL backside matches in one day........

Good luck getting an explanation from KSHSAA.....

All are correct, this is stupid. We are basically adding the semifinals to saturday's card, PLUS we are trying to get it all done 3 hours earlier??!!!

Doug

The semis instead of 1st round consolation would not work because of the amount of matches a first round upset would have to wrestle on Saturday, but the finals decision makes ABSOLUTELY no sense!!

I just edited my post to verify that you can wrestle 5 matches per day, which is what you'd wrestle if you lost your first match in a 16 man bracket, and went clear out for 3rd or 5th.......

Fair enough. I guess that change doesn't matter as much to me as the finals, other than I wouldn't want my State championship semi-finals match to be my first match of the day... Any day.

A GREAT BIG BOO !!!!!!

We should be trying to get people out of there LATER if anything on Saturday. Give the roads more time to clear.......

Can anyone give a logical explanation for this change? Once again, it appears KSHSAA has done something completely illogical.......

I have just 14 posts under my belt. I do not know any of the advanced rules of wrestling. Unfortunately, I am as dumb as I look.

But for you smart, seasoned-guys, I'm asking "is there some method to get this questioned directed to the KSHSAA powers-to-be, for them to reconsider & hopefully change their decision?"

The short answer is .... no.

The long answer is ..... no.

Weigh in should be Saturday morning now not Friday night. They are giving an extra pound and you only have to hold your weight for a few hours. What a joke. All of those who were cutting too much are getting a free pass.

This is really a slap in the face to the wrestlers who have worked so hard to get here and have the opportunity to showcase their talent. Whether this is their first or last opportunity to stand on the podium, the 14 championship matches should take place on one mat! Remember these are the times our kids are making memories for themselves and for all of us....don't lessen the glory by rushing the introductions and the matches.....these athletes have earned their time in the limelight! Please reconsider this decision and give them this awesome moment...one they will never forget! Those of us who CHOOSE to be at the state tournaments have done so, fully aware that the hour will be late when we finish and the weather may have to be dealt with.....let us do that part and let these amazing athletes bask in, for most of them, a once in a lifetime opportunity!!

This wrestling mom feels very strong about this and I pray that the people who make these decisions will make a change to the Saturday schedule and give the KSHSAA 2013 State Wrestling Tournaments the proper pomp and circumstance to let us, the fans, show our appreciation for what these kids and coaches go through to bring home the gold! Thanks!

Well said Quiet Fan!! I personally wonder why every state tournament needs to be uniform to the KSHSAA set schedule anyhow. Same amount of rounds, admission prices... Yes. Otherwise why don't they leave it to each individual tournament director/event coordinator to create an event enticing to it's particular spectators. A little creativity and openness to those paying admission could actually INCREASE attendance and thus revenue for all involved. Not to mention enhance the product of entertainment we know as the sport of wrestling.

Will=Us in Hays/Salina/Wichita who were able to be proactive and get "in town" ahead of the storm, had no place to practice today, as our team did yesterday @ Ft. Hays St. If you look at the rule posted above, KSHSAA correctly made the change. The other posts is (rightly so) concerned with the deviation of honoring the champions in the Final matches.

Wrestle 3rd& 4th & 5th & 6th on 4 mats at same time. Could have 106 on 2 mats & 113 on other 2 mats. Would go quick, have finalists ready to go, introduce them & have finals. Wouldn't take much longer than kshsaa plan..

Feel like weather allowing we should wrestle finals matches as in the past...spot lighted in the middle of the arena! We came to town on Wednesday... Kept boys weight in check and I as a parent will feel slighted! Just imagine what the boys will feel!! If we can start placing rounds by 2:30 and finals by 4:30 let's get it done folks! For some it's thier last rodeo...let's keep it special.
Kim Lovvorn

Wow. Will I don't see the weigh in deal being changed now. And from what I understand KS doesn't follow the NFHS weigh-in rules anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that why KS doesn't get a vote on the national level. I agree with you on the free pass but will they listen?

Just a hunch but KSHSAA might say the coaches majorily supported the new schedule? That is the party line for having 4A apart from 5A & 6A. Why don't the parents have a say? If the coaches are doing it for the kids, which I want to believe they are, then why wouldn't they say lets do this right!

I'm not sure what you're getting at Mr. Cokeley, and I agree there are no coaches publicly jumping on my bandwagon. I have not spoken to any personally, so I don't know what they are thinking, and I can GUARANTEE you they have the wrestlers' best interest in mind or they wouldn't be coaching.

They have spent two days in motel rooms w/ a team full of high schoolers and may well want this season over as fast as the KSHSAA. Perhaps I posted this topic under selfish pretenses. I know as a former finalist, I would feel cheated under the modified schedule. I know as a fan I will feel cheated that the finals are not a spectacle of their own. I know as a broadcaster it's going to be really hard to make that DVD the state champions will carry with them for life As personalized for them as it should be. It's just my view that as we continue to put it off, we rush it's ending.

I am saying that KSHSAA may have stated that they will have to run the tournament longer to have the finals matches run in traditional fashion. They may have asked the coaches if they would rather stay to do that or run all of the matches together to get out of there. At this point, given the amount of time the coaches have been there they may have supported the latter instead of thinking about how special these matches should be. I support having the finals conducted alone, in traditional fashion.

I have been in contact with two head coaches who are in two different towns with their teams. Neither of them said anything about being "surveyed" or asked their opinion by the KSHSAA about the schedule.

Will will probably now argue they should have.

Just as an fyi the NWS is forecasting the possibility of snow "out here" on Saturday night.

We are in the same motel as three other 4A schools. All of the coaches of these teams as well as the Colby coaches are in favor of the finals on one mat. None of us were asked for our opinion by KSHSAA.

The schedule changed, so there had to be adjustments made not only by the wrestling community, but the staff at the venues had to change their schedules also and it may have affected how the wrestling schedule was adjusted.

That argument is bogus. The workers were scheduled to work the venue with the finals beginning at 4:30.

We're the scheduled to start at 4 today?

No way is KSHSAA dumb enough to give an ultimatum about pushing the tourney back. They would be talking out of both sides of their mouth. We are adding a round of semis wrestling AND moving the finals to 2:30 (all together, so everyone feels like they are in the championship match....) instead of 4:30.

Why not do 3rd and 5th at 2:30 on 4 mats, like someone mentioned earlier, and do the finals at 3:30 or 4 on one mat?

The push back of start time makes sense. Saturday's schedule makes ZERO sense.........

I swear they sit up there at KSHSAA headquarters and try to figure out what will piss the most people off, and go with that, just to show us they can.

From the posts I have been reading, seems like KSHSAA is dumb enough to do about anything.

Color me "dumb enough to do about anything" however I am proud to volunteer my time to ensure we have a quality tournament and sadly do to weather conditions beyond the control of any coach, administrator or KSHSAA changes to the schedule had to be made. Is it perfect - NO - but we will be wrestling and we will have individual state champions. What was the lyric to that song "don't worry be happy"!

Exactly,it may not be perfect but adjustments were made in order to avoid cancelling it all together. I did not mean to offend anyone with my comment, it just seems that there is a negative comment made by someone about every decision made by the KSHSAA.

I have no problems with the changes made, EXCEPT for the finals, Richard. Why did they move them up, when they can be run virtually as scheduled? Makes NO sense.

I think this will definitely be interesting to see how this also impacts team scores down the stretch. Since tons of things will be wrestled simultaneously, the team scores could be down to the wire in some cases.

First match of the day semi final matches stink. When I was coaching in Georgia that is the way it was at state. We got up early to get a good actual match in before. We had to just no way to be at your best with the added pressure and emotions going on. All will survive the unfortunate changes, but I still get so irritated when the State seems to make choices that show their power more so then doing what is best for the kids. Just proves they need to change members routinely

No dog in this fight, but for years we've heard about how those cutting a lot of weight hurt themselves in the semis due to holding weight down all day. I wonder if this changes many matches?

And talk about having to regroup your thoughts. If you've had your sights on a championship but lose a tough one in the semis, there's little time for a pitty party. You'll have to get right in the head and wrestle soon. Could mean some heads getting ripped off by a mad dog, or some big back door defeats because of the inability to regroup.

I'm not sure why the changes are what they are, and if I get a chance to ask Mr. Lentz, I will. By the way, he is a very wrestling friendly guy. We should be very happy to have him as our KSHSAA admin. I'm not a big fan of three mats going during the finals, but it's not all that different than the 5/6A tourney or the old 456A tournament. Multiple mats going, making it tough to see the championships.

Agree that the finals should be solo. You mean it's not? Are you serious? What the...!
From what I have read it still could be and should be. Dig the 3rd and 5th at 2:30 and 1st at 4:00.
Best wishes though to everyone, especially the wrestlers, and safe travels to all.

When I first read this change was going to happen I was outraged as well. 48 hours ago I would not have pictured myself saying this, but, actually it went really well. It showcased all the medalists, which I like introductions of the wrestlers competing for 3rd & 5th. The championship finalists still got their due in a special way as well with addtional music and noting of their records and past accomplishments. I know change of some traditions can be hard, but I think KSHSAA ended up getting this one right, and was a change for the good.

The only problem I had with it, which was a good problem, was trying to watch six matches at one time which was pretty hard to do (actually impossible). It was kind of like watching three tennis matches simultaneously. My head felt like it was on a swivel but I got to watch a lot of great action in a relatively short period of time. I also missed a lot of great action but still thoroughly enjoyed it.

Also, had the semifinals been run on Friday night with the 4pm start time, they would not have ended until Saturday morning (probably around 1am maybe later).

I missed the final parade. The parade with all the placers and the introduction of the state finalists. It's the state finals, it needs to be treated special, not hurry up and get it done. Honestly I kind of liked the three mats, added to the excitement. Just don't forget the introduction it adds to the atmosphere. My three wrestlers in the finals where disappointed. Great weekend of wrestling. Coach Prichard.

Introductions of the wrestlers for 5th, 3rd and 1st were made before the final round at Hays.

Personally, I liked the three mat finals; and not because of any time savings; there was no appreciable time savings by doing this,in Hays anyway. The SSB was sung at 3:45 p.m. and the finalists were brought in (to "The Eye of the Tiger")and wrestling was completed at about 7:00 p.m. No matter how you format them, the final rounds with introductions, medal presentations, blood time, etc. take at least 3 hours. I liked the three mats because (#1) I believe it kept more on the crowd in the arena; too often people leave when their school has no rooting interest in the finals. (#2) All medalists were ready for the presentation. (#3) people without any rooting interest did not have to wait through finals to see their wrestler get a 3 - 6 medal.

I don't think the state schedule has been adjusted much at all since we went from three mats to four. . . so I will go further, IMO, the schedule for State Schedule should be permanently altered:

Friday wrestling: start no earlier than noon.
Saturday: begin no earlier than 10:00 a.m.

We started at 4 on Friday and wrestled until 11:00 p.m. which is way too late. Starting at noon would allow for the semi-finals to be wrestled on Friday night and still be done at a decent time for the competitors, 8:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.

It was demonstrated that starting at 10:00 a.m. on Saturday still allows the tournament to be completed at a very reasonable time. . . and eliminating the semi-final round from Saturday would allow for a longer break before the finals round. It was hard to leave the arena with wrestlers and cheerleaders for a "real meal" given the compressed schedule of Saturday.

And finally, GET A DEDICATED TEAM SCOREBOARD FOR HAYS. Once in a great while the advertising on the big screens was suspended to show the top ten team scores, but you had to be lucky to see it when it happened.

I was bummed to hear about the schedule change. Bummed for the finalists. That was one of my favorite parts of the State tournament. Team rolls into Hays on Thursday, practice in the Colosseum. Next day, wrestle your butt off through the semi-finals on Friday night. Yes, night. This is the State Championships. These are the best wrestlers in the state. By the time they get to this tournament, many wrestlers will have 20-30 wins. Many of those matches were won on the road and at all hours of the morning, afternoon, day or night. Ever wrestled in the finals at the Garden City Invitational?

So after wrestling through the semi-finals on Friday night, the finalists have all day Saturday to prepare for the ***EXCLUSIVE*** championship match. I realize the changes this year were most likely an anomaly, but the State Championship Finals match should be the ***ONLY MAT*** on the floor for the finals. The wrestlers who earn a spot in the finals deserve no less. And with recent developments in the Olympics community, we should all be more careful about debasing or devaluing the achievement of wrestling in the State Finals.

Another option suggested for the finals that is, IMO, worthy of consideration: use three mats and wrestle 5th and 3rd on the side mats. . .followed by the first place match by itself on the center mat.

State Championship matches should be the only matches being wrestled. It should be show cased, not thrown in with the 3rd and 5th place matches. I understand with weather it had to be done this year but this schedule should be the exception not the rule.

I agree. If we are going to keep the championship semi-finals on Friday night (I still prefer having them first thing on Saturday), to start them on at 4:30pm or whatever is crazy. That kills any incentive for locals to come out and catch some of the better matches after work. The championship semi-finals should start no earlier than 6:00pm on Friday.

I pray it's an anomaly.  I fear something much different.  I am not against change, but I wont walk calmly blindfolded to the gallows either.

The summer of 1992 I watched John Smith win Olympic gold in Barcelona live on regular television in primetime.  I even saw Kenny Monday, Kevin Jackson, and Bruce Baumgartner's matches in their entirety.  There was a new event in those games.  The USA put a team together known as the "Dream Team" to participate.

That winter I found myself in the Kansas 321a state wrestling championship match.  The 
parade of champions I'd long dreamed of being in started at 6:15.  As a 145 pounder, I'd be hitting the mat around 8:00 to a packed, raucous crowd.

I wanted a wooden, Kansas-shaped, State bracket, and to see my Stockton wrestler friends receive the team trophy, mid-mat, while "We Are The Champions" played over the PA system.

Fast-forward twenty years...

I got to watch a re-run of Jordan Burroughs on some odd satellite channel after work, because it aired live mid-morning.  It was the only full match I saw.  Sure saw plenty of the new "Dream Team" though.  Now wrestling is on the Olympic chopping block.

Even without the weather situation, a lot has been slowly taken away from our sport's state spectacle.  The wooden brackets are gone.  The originally scheduled finals start time was 4:30, and the mats are headed to storage (stereo unplugged) before the 285 pound champion gets done hugging his coach.

Twenty years ago was also the first year we started placing six at state.  While I'm still undecided on whether or not that was a good decision, I accept it, while observing it's taken away from the ferocity of the consolation semis.  That used to be my favorite round to watch.  This past Olympics we handed out two Bronze medals in many cases.  Would wrestling for it had taken up too much time?  Did we need to get the venue cleared for another sport to have the spotlight?

In regards to the three-mat finals, admittedly under the duress of the situation it wasn't a complete disaster.  I do feel honoring a wrestler who goes 2-3 in the tournament the same as one who goes 3-1 is a farce, and essentially that's what this format does.  A sixth place finisher gets the same pomp & circumstance as a state champion, minus the paper bracket.

I am not a participation ribbon guy. I believe it sends the wrong message & ultimately depletes wrestling.  However, with declining numbers and the changes I've seen over recent years, a sad yet foreseeable vision flashes in my head.  One of western Kansas state wrestling being a USAWKS sanctioned, eight man bracketed, one day event, in a high school gym.  Ribbons for all.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, nor a "shock" jock.  I'm a wrestling fan with my own observations/opinions who is concerned about our sport, as I'm sure all of you are as well.  As wrestling coaches often say... "Head on a swivel."

If it can happen at the IOC level, it can certainly happen at the KSHSAA level.  Let's suck up the bleacher butt, and start showcasing our sport as an event desirable.  One of primetime relevance.  Now, before it's too late.  If we don't see it that way, why would anyone else?