regionals

what does everybody think about the regional assingments. I would have to say the hardest would be the Norton regional with the Abilene regional just behind. The worst would have to be the Hesston regional.

I hope for your sake you were joking

I would say it is a toss up between the Norton Regional and the Abilene Regional. I don't know why Nigel would think that is a joke.

4A Top Ten

1. Abilene
2. Columbus
3. Goodland
4. Santa Fe Trail
5. Ulysses
6. Rose Hill
7. Clay Center
8. Chapman
9. Pratt
10. Colby

Abilene Reigional:
1. Abilene
3. Goodland
4. Santa Fe Trail
7. Clay Center
8. Chapman
10. Colby

Coffeyville Reigional:
2. Columbus
6. Rose Hill

Andale Reigional:
5. Ulysses
9. Pratt

Hiawatha Reigional:
none

Coachtwink, why would Nigel say half the stuff he says???? I guess because he is Nigel and you just have to understand who he is or at least try to understand.

Man they are trying to reunite the NCKL at regionals huh? I kind of liked having all the teams spread out that way we could qualify almost every NCKL guy to state...that's a super tough regional...Chapman is young don't know how they'll fair with the competition...reminds me of the 95 regional at Russell, that was tough!

CoachTwink, I think CoachJT pretty much summed up everything I was thinking, good thing he dis the research. Norton regional has a few good teams but certainly not 6 of the top 10 in the state.

Nigel I think you are wrong about the Norton regional but only time will tell. Norton, Hoxie, Oberlin, St. Francis, Minneapolis, S. Center and Atwood along with some teams I have probably missed all have a legit. shot at being in the top 10. In 321A the toughest regional will always be the one with the most NWKL and MCL teams.

I have to agree with BigDaddy.

While there is not a 321A preview to draw stats from I suspect that at least 6 of the top 10 teams in 321 A will be at Norton

Norton Regional:
Hoxie
Norton
Oberlin-Decatur Comm
St. Francis
Minneapolis
Beloit
Atwood

Easton-Pleasant Ridge Regional–
Effingham-Atchison County Comm.

Hesston Regional:
probably none

Hoisington Regional:
Oakley
Ellis
Ellsworth
Hays-Thomas More Prep-Marian

I am not trying to take anything away from the Abilene regional, but the best team in the State will be at Norton, and several other excellent teams.
(These were primarily drawn from state placings from last year).

The unfortunate part about the Abeline and Norton regionals is that since the best teams in 321a and 4a seem to be cheifly from the north central or northwest area , in too many cases they tend to weaken each other to the point that other teams from weaker competition in other regions are able to place well or even win because they will qualify more wrestlers. Columbus, ulysses and Pratt, in 4a, and Oakley and Effingham in 321a, stand to gain significantly at state due to having wrestlers with scoring potential that would never have survived Abeline or Norton. sad deal-- but what would you do--bus teams all over the state to acheive parity? This problem does seem to lend great credence to the claim that at least in 123A and 4A, the other areas of the state seem to be lagging behind. There will be some teams that do well at state that are not from those areas, but whether they earn it with championships or inherit it with numbers is the question.

A few reasons why i picked norton over abilene. There are 19 teams at Norton and 14 at abilene. 19 teams is the most teams i've recently seen at a regional. There is a big dropoff at abilene. you have about 8 good teams then it really goes downhill. norton is spread out pretty even. Don't get me wrong though, abilene is not going to be a walk in the park by any means.

Mr. Fairleigh said it very well. In tough economic times schools can not afford to bus, feed and house wrestlers and send them all over the state. However year in and year out better wrestlers from a tough regional (the NW regional)must watch wrestlers they have beat wrestling while they are spectators. I do not have an answer but I completely agree with his thoughts on parity. At a weak regional kids make it into the tourny. and may win a match when if they were at another regional they would never make it to the show.

Heard today that Oakley is now going to Norton. Anybody know if this is true? If it is true that only makes that regional that much tougher, as if it wasn't tough enough.

Mike I think your assesment it wrong. Point in case. Abilene last year qualified only 6 people to the state tournement. While several other teams sent 8, 9, even 10 guys to the tournament and Abilene still won state. At the State tournament is quality of quanity that really matter more.

it is true that oakley will be at the NOROTN regional this year making it the toughest compatition since the inception of sliced bread and reducing the quality of the other 3 321A regionals to a JR HIGH tourney level, why dont we just call Hays, Call of state this year, and award the norton regional placers. why doesnt somebody say, "maybee we shouldent send an overwhelming majority of the best teams in the state (int their class) to one regional" and start splitting it up logically. Lets see some gerrymandering of regionals!!!

How and why did Oakley switch regionals?

I am confident you will find Oakley did not switch regionals.

Fanatic,
I hope you are correct but the story I heard is that the KSHAA overlooked Deerfield HS when assigning the regionals. Once they were aware of this they assigned Deerfield to Hoisington and Oakley to Norton. Again, I hope you are correct as we see Oakley enough throughout the year and this creates a 125 lb bracket that would probably include 4 of the top 5 in that weight.

Well I couldn't imagine, but Deerfield isn't listed on the KSHSAA web and the Norton regional is the only one listed with less than 20 teams, which logically means they would have to gain one.

Nigel,
Just because Abilene was able to win state last year after only qualifying 6 does not prove your point. Think about it for a second. If Abilene had gone to a weaker regional, qualified 8-10, and had higher placings, do you think they wouldn't have won it? Of course not, they would probably have won it by a greater margin. Going to a weaker regional is an advantage. I agree quality is better than quantity, but both is even better.

i saw the official notice being passed arround by Norton administration Thursday, Oakley WILL be at norton

Deerfield to Norton approximately 180 miles!
Oakley to Norton approximately 85 miles!
Deerfield to Hoisington approximately 170 miles!
Oakley to Hoisington approximately 140 miles!

In terms of travel distance, the KSHSAA decision of where to place Deerfield was a wash, however Oakley is considerably closer to Norton.

In my experience, KSHSAA rarely considers strength of regional over logistics in placing regional assignments.

Also, Deerfield has to follow Lakin wherever they go. They're consolidated on the sport.

Some excellent points made on this topic. I agree with Bigknee that the other 321A regionals (besides Norton) are basically a joke. However if you were to have the schools vote and see if they want to mix the regionals up 3 of 4 would vote to keep it the way it is (all schools not in the NW regional voting to keep it). These schools don't want Hoxie, Norton, St. Francis, Oberlin, Oakley etc. coming to their regional because they know it would cost them wrestlers at state. Also as was pointed out Nigels reasoning is flawed. Every coach would like to get as many wrestlers to state as possible and going to a weak regional certainly increases the odds. To win you need quality but also quantity.

KSHSAA did the correct thing...........after they screwed up. They should have had it right in the first place.

Big Daddy
I don't know how you define joke, but if you care to wage a war of insults, you better strap it up because you are minor league compared to what I deal with every day. I won't deny the Norton regional is considerably tougher than the others. I will also not let you be condescending.

Its really too bad that the strong heritage in that nw ks. area causes them to basically have to beat each other to a pulp for the honor of having a comparatively easy go at state. Last years Kshaa regionals that split the teams there up and had a northwest and southwest site did a better job of giving everyone a chance. Hoxie and Norton were split apart, with oakly going with Hoxie and (I think) sainty , atwood, and oberlin going with Norton. I hesitate to say that the other regions are a joke this year but if there arent 75% of the placers (at state)coming out of the Norton region (one tournament) compared to the other three tournaments, I will be surprised. there are some quality guys in the rest of the state, but the teams up north, especially this year, seem to be a little better. That being said, it is really early in the season and a lot can happen between now and then. 4a is somewhat the same with the strength of the Abeline region, but there are some other teams (SFT, Columbus, Scott City, Ulysses, plus
many premium individuals outside of the Abeline regional, That will even out the numbers somewhat as far as state placers from each region. The 5a and 6a teams will be stacked to the east as there are so few schools that size in the west. AS nigel stated, Abeline was able to beat the odds last year, but if memory serves me correctly, they were not able to win the Goodland regional. In that case (state),a few quality wrestlers were able to do well. This year may not be so clear cut.

Sir, I would dispute your claim that most of the quality 5a and 6a teams will come from the East. Manhattan considers themselves on the Western half of the state (because population-wise, they are). I think Topeka is the cut-off, and I would argue that wrestling west of T-Town is tougher all around.

And you mentioned quality 5a teams. Ha. You're a kidder.

My bad, Mr. Garker, as a geographic westerner I didn't take that into consideration. I speak of the desolate, parched, windblown area that 'ol Zebulon Pike (Read your History) referred to as the Great American Desert. Zeb obviously was not a wrestling fan, as that western 200 miles of this state is the Garden of Eden of wrestling.
The secret of the strength of the Far Western Territories is that they don't cut their hair (old testament Bible secret) and they carefully monitor their school attendance so that very few of their schools become 5a. (just Kidding. Really.)

Prant says:

"Manhattan considers themselves on the Western half of the state (because population-wise, they are)."

Let us deal in facts! It matters not where Manhattan considers themselves, what matters is geographic location. There are certain fundamentals of land measurement, Meridians (Longitude) and Base lines (Latitude) which run parallel to Meridians. Simply, fold a State of Kansas map in half, or into thirds, and Manhattan always is located North and East of these boundaries. According to any geographic study, the ONLY Western location of Manhattan, when the State is divided into thirds, is their location in the Northeastern quadrant of Kansas.

Lastly, Mr. Garker states "And you mentioned quality 5a teams. Ha."

In rebuttal, I mention Arkansas City (which MAY be down this year) Kansas City Turner, Salina South, Wichita Bishop Carroll, and Wichita Haysville Campus.

No question Manhattan is a HIGH quality program located in NE Kansas.

Fanatic Slow down! Obviously you must think of yourself as some kind of tough guy or champion insult slinger and my intention was not to offend anyone. However if the truth hurts I can not help it. The majority of ppl. on this topic agree that the Nt. regional is the toughest. You must be from the east and can't stand the fact that the great teams are from out there. I stand by all my earlier statements.

I'm with you Big Daddy, well said.

Just a question! How much of KSHSAA regional site determination is based off of members school applications to host? Do you have to apply to host?

I can easily solve the problem. Since 6 medals are awarded at state lets take 6 out of each regional and see what happens. Let 5 from one regional wrestle 6 from another in a bunny bracket and then put the winner in a bunny against the number 4 from the odd regional. The winner there would fill in the 16 man bracket. I know it would add 6 more matches per bracket but the real 5th&6th state placers would at least get to wrestle.

Mr. Salyer,

In no way do I dispute your claim that Manhattan is not geographically in the northeastern part of the state. NE Kansas 4 life, baby.

However, in regards to wrestling regionals and population distribution, I was simply pointing out that Manhattan can possibly be considered a "Western" team. The majority of 5a and 6a schools are either in Topeka or to the East, which is why more often than not Hat Town wrestlers are on the West team in the East/West classic (though I believe they don't do East/West anymore), and are always on the West team in the Shrine Bowl.

You, however, completely disregarded my statement and decided to get all crazy and technical about meridians. (By the way, that didn't make your point any more valid because you used the technical terms for longitude and latitude that we all learned in 7th grade.) The only reason I can see why you would take my post literally and disregard my statement about population is because you're a curmudgeoney old man who has nothing better to do than argue with teenagers.

Either that, or you're jealous that Hat Town is just so danged witty.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

And to Mr. Fairleigh-

Of COURSE I know Zebulon Pike. One can't struggle through Kansas history in 6th and 9th grade without learning that he passed through our great state once upon a time.

Dear Prant:

What I am jealous of is the quality of Manhattan's wrestling program, from Kids to the High School. Many wonderful people have tutored many outstanding athletes, Ned Price, Mr. Miller, Mr. Bradshaw, etc.!

There was no need for me to be argumentative, as I was pointing out the obvious.

Last I knew, Dodge City, Garden City, Hutchinson, and all Wichita High Schools are West of Manhattan.

We do agree that wrestling in the West is tougher.

I too wish you a wonderful and joyous Holiday, and safe travel!

To Big Daddy:

I do not personally know fanatic, and fanatic certainly does not need me to come to his defense, however I believe fanatic is a minimum 2X State Champion from a 3-2-1A school located in NW Kansas.

Perhaps just a misunderstanding!

But seriously, come on. How hard is it to be a 2x champ in 321a?

Oh wait- real hard.

To Fanatic:

Three issues that you have stated or implied bother me:
1) Norton is not a tough Regional

Norton Regional – 8 of 10 last years top ten teams – Hoxie, Norton, Oakley, (wait they are going to Hoisington, you told me), Beloit, Oberlin, Atwood, Minneapolis, Saint Francis

Easton Regional – 1. ACC Atchison

Hesston – None

Hoisington – 1, (or two) Ellis and Oakley??

2) And I quote from one of you other posts on the forum “ Oakley is NOT going to the Norton Regional” - say what??

3) Another of your posts asked for Motel Information in Hays – I recommend you go to Norton the week before (drive back and forth, it’s not far from Manhattan – Garker would know) – and take a pup tent to Hays

One good thing though for you, Mr. Fanatic, you have Salyer for your defense attorney.

To Coachtwink:

I am not God, Salyer or Fanatic, (and certainly with no disrespect for you), but if the Forum is correct in the results from last year, the 10th place team was Ellis with 52 points – Ellsworth and TMP had 40 and 45, respectively (not in the top ten) – I do, however like your avatar

Dear Dalefish1:

As I understand the scenario: KSHSAA issued Regional site locations and assignments on or about December 10, 2003 and, initially Oakley was assigned to the Hoisington Regional. After an error regarding the non-placement of Deerfield was discovered, KSHSAA issued an assignment for Deerfield to Hoisington, to follow Lakin, as they have a consolidation agreement, and at that time, placed Oakley in the Norton Regional.

The discussion on this talk forum regarding Regional re-assignment of Oakley began (Sunday) December 14, 2003; after completion of the Norton Tournament. At the onset of the discussion, the KSHSAA web site had not been updated indicating a Regional re-assignment for Oakley, or any regional designation for Deerfield.

The following statement by fanatic "I am confident you will find Oakley did not switch regionals." posted on this thread December 14, 2003; is absolutely correct. Oakley did not switch Regionals! KSHSAA, after discovering their error, made the switch to Oakley's (in my humble opinion) disadvantage. Am I being technical, YES!

Nowhere on this thread, or any other thread, do I recall a statement from fanatic denigrating the Norton Regional. On December 15, 2003; fanatic stated “I won't deny the Norton regional is considerably tougher than the others.” Kindly support your statement “Three issues that you have stated or implied bother me:
1) Norton is not a tough Regional” with fact(s)?

You were also highly critical of me on another thread regarding high school rankings for my position criticizing those involved. My criticism stemmed from the following: a Winfield High School senior, a three time KSHSAA medalist and former State Champion, was deliberately not ranked due to the fact the Winfield coach failed to return requested information from those compiling the rankings. The failure to include this wrestler, and several other returning medalists rendered the rankings inaccurate. The primary element in the Preseason ranking is based on last year(s) performance at the KSHSAA State Championships.

Do I make mistakes, YES! Do I consider myself a GOD, EMPHATICALLY NO! When in error, will I admit to a mistake, YES!

Do I attempt to ascertain all facts before engaging my big mouth on this forum (keyboard in this instance), YES.

In closing, will I apologize for my fact based opinion, NO!

Will I apologize if I offended you, YES!

I apologize for offending you!

I also apologize to all of you who had the patience to read this lengthy statement!

Mr. Lane, if you read this post, I am not attempting to reopen old battles. Peace!

Have a safe and joyous Holiday!

I usually stay out of these arguements and do not know why I am getting involved now. The issue on the wrestlers whose coach did not submit the info should not be held against the rater. Without knowing what weight the wrestler is coming back at or whether he is coming back at all would make ranking an individual without confirmation just as invalid. The example I will use is Rossville's Matt Heslet. By your method, he would be ranked in the top 2 or 3, but he decided not to wrestle this year. Maybe leaving that wrestler off will get his coach and perhaps others to submit the info and he and other deserving wrestlers from his team will get proper recognition. I do not see what the big deal about the rankings are so early anyway. They are just a starting point. As wrestlers prove themselves on the mats in duals and tournaments, they will be ranked.

you dont think royal valley will place top 10 at abilene

Mr. Sayler,
I enjoy your comments and obviously you go to great depths before posting any of your comments. Many other people should follow in your footsteps. I was hoping you could clarify the Regional pairings for me. On an earlier post you made the comment about the KSHSAA made an error on the placement of Deerfield so that in turn put Oakley at the Norton Regional, which is understandable. However, I see that Elkhart is assigned to the Hoisington Regional, when in fact (I think) Elkhart dropped their wrestling program. If this is correct it appears to me that Deerfield should have just been added to the Hoisington Regional, Elkhart should have been dropped, and Oakley should have remained there. If this is the case, it appears to me that the KSHSAA did not take the time to do the correct assigning of the teams. Any other thoughts on this?

Tim,

Perhaps I can be of assistance in this matter--if Mr. Slayer has further information he can share it as well.

It is true, according to my sources, that Elkhart is not wrestling this year. However, the KSHSAA makes its tournament assignments (in all sports) on the basis of the participation cards submitted by the schools themselves. No doubt Elkhart submitted a card stating that they were going to wrestle this year and desired a regional assignments. I have also heard that Elkhart was somewhat slow in notifiying the schools with which they were to have competed that they were not going to be able to honor their commitment. Perhaps they did not notify the KSHSAA? The KSHSAA's knowledge of Elkhart's participation (or any other school) is based only on what they are told by their member schools.

This matter brings up two other issues for thought and discussion: (1) are you (we) for sure that Elkhart does not have a coop agreement with another school down there? I know they would have missed the deadline for filing for such an agreement, but the KSHSAA has granted waivers in these situations before. If so, they would be assigned to the same regional as that of their host school (if both schools are in the same classfication grouping -- same situation as with Deerfield and Lakin). (2) While the number of schools may be equal it is a sure bet that the number of wrestlers in each tournament will not be.

Looking at the teams assigned, I am willing to bet that the Norton Regional will have AT LEAST 33% more actual wrestlers than will the Hoisington regional. Again, this is information that the KSHSAA does not have, and I am not sure that they should. Trying to balance tournaments based on the number of individual participants could/would be a nightmare!

Good luck in the upcoming Norton Invite.

Boss Man,
Appreciate your input and, no, I am not sure that they are not in a coop agreement with another town, as that is still apossibility. We don't go to the Norton Invite but I do appreciate your wishes of luck as we will need it at Regionals

In regards to the Deerfield--Oakley switch, how can they say they forgot Deerfield when they are technically with Lakin. I would guess when you look at their brackets they only have one person at each weight. Therefore, it did not change the brackets any, but Oakley moving to the Norton regionals will. I just don't think this seems right.

Elkhart doesn't have a program this year at all. Thier coach has cancer and no wrestlers decided to go out.

NWKansasmom,

When two schools are coop in a "quasi-team" sport wuch as wrestling, the athletes must represent their own school in the post season; hence, they wrestler all year as one team, but are two teams (schools) for regionals. That is the rule. It works OK if both schools are in the same class, but several years ago there was a boy from Dighton who wrestled with Scott City. He was on the SC team all year, but when regionals came he wrestled for Dighton in the 321A regional while his teammates (and coaches) went to the 4A regional. He qualified for state 3 maybe 4 years and he went to Hays while Scott City went to Wichita. That is just the way it is.

YA know all this talk about sending the "good"
3-2-1A teams all over the state is pretty dumb.
Simply posting your little remarks about it is not going to get you anywhere. You are not KSHSAA and last I knew they were the ones that made up the regionals.

But, IF you want to send NW teams to Hesston, power to ya. I Wouldn't mind wrestling them and neither would anyone on my team. In fact I would be happy to wrestle them as only the best 16 wrestlers in each respective weight class should be allowed to attend state tournaments. But whos to say who the best is untill the morning of regional tournaments. An entire team may be wiped out by staff or ringworm. ya never know.
But as i said earlier Send Them if you want.
Its kind of like the Darwin theory "only the strong survive" and thats the way it should be.

Eureka Hwt,

The true meaning of "only the strong survive" will be on display at the Norton Regional.

Historically, the NW regional tournament with 1/4 of the wrestlers at State has accoounted for right at 60% of the medals (you can look it up).

i agree with EurekaHwt i am at this regional and i know how weak it is. i also know that i would make it to state if i went to any other regional in 321a. the quality of all the regionals varies at different weights throughout the state. I know that Norton is obviously the toughest and i wish i could be there but there are certain weights at other regionals that are tough also. i know mine is not one of these but they are still there.

Boss

You are obviosly obsesed with the Norton Regional. I don't know you nor do I wish to. But is it possible that you or your kid is in the Norton Regional and you are just scared of not making it to the big show.

What I ment by "only the strong survive" is that I think it would be nice to send those "great teams" around the state to different regionals and see just how well they fare.

Eureka Hwt--

Whoa! Why the hostility? I only reiterated what you also said -- the Norton Regional is the most difficult of the 321A regionals. I also presented some numbers to support that fact. Sorry if you find the truth in those numbers to be somehow threatening or aaggressive towards you; I assure you that they were not.

I assure you that my wrestling days and those of my sons (who were better than average high school wrestlers) are well behind me.

I too wish that the NW regional was "broken up" and that more deserving wrestlers from that corner of the state got the opportunity to wrestle at State; the way it is now there will be as many deserving wrestlers left at home from the Norton Regional as there will be undeserving ones that will qualify from the other three--and you know exactly what I mean.

I sincerely hope you qualify for State and I will look forward to watching you wrestle at Hays--with your user name you should be easy to identify!

Good luck and stay healthy.

To:

EurekaHWT

I wish to quote you from a previous post; I believe it was addressed to the Boss:

“You are obviosly obsesed with the Norton Regional. I don't know you nor do I wish to. But is it possible that you or your kid is in the Norton Regional and you are just scared of not making it to the big show.

What I ment by "only the strong survive" is that I think it would be nice to send those "great teams" around the state to different regionals and see just how well they fare.”


Hey big guy would it be OK with you, your coaches, your Administration, and the KSHSAA if you could be assigned to the Northwest Kansas Regional Next year? It’s ok with me - In fact I would really like to see which of the “strong survive” – wait, lets make it this year

Dalefish1

PS: to quote you again “ “I don’t know you nor do I wish to.” ditto
PS:PS: obviosly is spelled obviously, obsesed is spelled obsessed, and ment is spelled meant – also I would like to see how you would do against Sprigg or Klein, Wouldn’t you?? –We will find out at Hays

Footnote: Norton Regional has 8 of last years top ten teams, Hesston has zero

They need to send those team down here. just because there aren't many mentionable teams there are some mentionable wrestlers i dont like that a bunch of fish make it to state from our area but thats the way it is... like i said earlier we have wrestlers that could make it at any of the regionals.including eurekahwt. way to show some obvios* hostility towards us. like everyone else said its the KSHAA makes the decions not us. and about the spelling of eurekahwt, we're all a bunch of poor dumb hicks and we just dont know any better.

Lets end this bickering and keep track of the number of medals won at state by each of the four regionals. Wouldn't this be an good indicator of the relative strength of each of the regionals? If in fact they are equal in strength, 25% of the medals should come from each regional.

Or, lets "score" the regionals and total the actual medal placings: Each regional gets 6pts for each qualifier from their regional that wins a state championship, 5 pts for a second, and so on through 1pt for 6th.

Why is everyone whining about the regional assignments. So what you have quite a few good teams in your regional (NORTON) big deal teams and kids hearts get broken every year in sports. Two Ranked teams go up against each other in every sport but only one of them get to go to the state tournament atleast four wrestlers from each region get to go, so not as many kids get their hearts broke, that is just apart of sports. So quit gripping about it and be one of the top four then you dont have anything to worry about. Making it to Hays or Wichita. Think if there are 16 kids in each of your brackets 12 of those kids will be crushed and 4 will have succeed. four a total of 16 kids again at your state tourney. Yes some may be less deserving as others but it happens all the time every year a less deserving team makes it to state and a team that thinks they should be there is either sitting in the stands watching or at home watching it. so dont act like your the first its happen to if you dont make it then good luck next year work that much harder in the off season to make your self better. and if you dont have the will to do that then just remember yourself walking off the regional mat not making it to Hays or Wichita and that should be a good motivator for you. So please just quit all your whining again you arent the first that this has happened too and no matter how much u whine its not gonna change where your wrestling in your regional

Good idea, let us see who comes up with the most medals and let us see where the teams finish in the standings, then we will see where the hard regionals were.

Dalefish

it would be fine with me to be sent to norton. If that is where the KSHSAA wants to send me so be it.

What i ment by my little Ditto is that i have no desire to get to know this feller

Lastly i would like to apologize for spelling poorly but evidently i did it good enough for even yourself, who must be highly sophisticated, to understand.

htown,

Not whining ; just stating the hypothesis that the NW KS regional is by far the toughest of the four 321A regionals and offering an objective way to measure it (the hypothesis).

I think the jist of your missive is that life is not fair. However, your detached perspective might be different if it were kids from your family/town/area that were being treated unfairly year in and year out.

I have been in that situation my brother is a wrestler and i played basketball and wrestled basketball all through high school and it has happened to me i played basketball in 2 substates that had the 3 of the top 5 teams in 3A both times which my high school team was top 5 and the team that beat us played and won the state championship junior and senior year. and then 2 more that were top 10 state ranked teams. there fore 5 of the 8 teams were top 10 so i know ur situation and basketball there are what is called 8 substates and only the winner gets to go the state tournament and i know how it feels to have a stacked regional but we didnt grip about it or say it wasnt fair if we didnt win it was our teams fault the better team won thats sports trust me there were teams that we beat that made the tourney and i sure think that they werent deserving but hey we got beat thats all there is to it. so again yes life isnt fair and sports are a major part of a high majority of peoples lives. I now go to more wrestling matches then basketball games because i like watching and supporting my familey friends extra wrestlers where always my teams biggest and noiseist fans so i always paid that back to them by doing what they did.

htown,

don't want to belabor the point, but this doesn't happen once in a while ,or three years in a row, of five out of eight. . . it happens EVERY YEAR. If it was an anomoly, it would be understandable, but it is EVERY YEAR.

My sons wrestled and have since completed their high school careers. It was difficult explaining to them that "life isn't fair" when wrestlers that they had defeated during the season made it to state from other regionals and they (my sons) were staying home. Fortunately they made it to "the show" but I know full well that had they lived elsewhere they would have made it multiple times.

Again, please don't equate sometimes, often, or sporadically with EVERY YEAR--it is NOT the same.

This debate pops up every year. Last year someone did keep track of the number of wrestlers placing from each regional although I do not have those numbers. I do remember that it was not until the 5 and 6 place medalists were counted did the two eastern regionals even put a dent in things. I think everyone agrees that the NT regional is the toughest but the other regionals will definetly have some tough kids. If a guy will do some research they will find that the toughest regional is ALWAYS the one with the most NW and NC teams(321A). EurekaHWT you say you would like to go to the NT regional-good for you. However if you ask your coach or any coach in another regional besides Nortons if they would like to switch what do you think the answer would be? And the reason they do not want to go is because it would cost them wrestlers in the state trny.

Big Daddy,

just for grins I keep track of the medal count each year; it is an unusual year that fewer than 50% of the medals come from the NW regional, and many years it approaches 60%--this is 40 - 50 of the 84 medals being won by 56 of the 224 wrestlers at State. When the two western regionals are totaled -- well, it just gets ugly.

Big Daddy

Sorry bout that.

Big Daddy

You are probably right. Many coaches would not like to switch to the Norton Regional. As You Have stated it would cost them wrestlers at state.
But on this one I think I am going to have to go with you on this one."reason they do not want to go is because it would cost them wrestlers in the state trny." And UNFOTUNETLY that is the just of it. It should not be this way. For instance my soph. year We were in the garden plain regional. I made it to state along with seven of my teammates. Some of them, myself include would probably not have made it at the NW regional. Then my Junior year we went to Cottonwood Falls, I believe. I made it along with 5 of my teammates. I was certainly not deserving of this. 1/20/03 I was shot in the hip in a hunting accident. I was in the Hospital for a week, Then I was unable to compete/practice/run/lift/ect. for about 2 weeks. This put us one week before regionals. I managed to win Leauge with 3 pins and 0-1 dec. against me. So I guess you coul a gainst me. So I guess you could say I was in the worst shape of my career with a 3-1 record on my new season. I was seeded 1st at regionals and managed to squeeze in with an Injury default in the consolation finals for a 3rd. My state record ended as 0-2. At a NW regional I would probably never have made it to a state tournament.

DaleFish

If you look at the state brackets for last year you will notice that Klein wrestled Fine of Cherryvalle in the first round Klein managed to pin Fine at 2:51 I believe. Before my little accident I was pinning him in a minute or under. And by they way he is the one i Injured in the consolation finals at regionals

Somebody said one time that the regional you go to is determined by distance...then explain why Goodland all the way from the west part of the State ends up at the same regional with SFT and Royal Valley in Abilene?

Sweazy:

2003-2004 4A Regional Site Locations: Abilene, Andale, Coffeyville, and Hiawatha

Distance from Goodland, Kansas to Abilene, Kansas: Approximately 265 miles

Distance from Goodland, Kansas to Andale, Kansas: Approximately 345 miles

Distance from Goodland, Kansas to Coffeyville, Kansas: Approximately 485 miles

Distance from Goodland, Kansas to Hiawatha, Kansas: Approximately 420 miles

Goodland was assigned to the nearest geographically located regional.

Whoa, that would have been a mean trip to Coffeyville. Of course Goodland and Colby are used to traveling long distances for regionals.