yea, courts will uphold that a student has to have the opportunity to make up the work 9 times out of 10. that doesnt mean a school cant originally give zeros, but if the issue is pressed to the courts it will get overturned. my point in my statement was simply informing mom4 if the incident ever came up with her son she should not accept it. all to often parents do not know what the can push and what they can't. in my opinion it is not right to hammer a kid with zeros for an OSS. in some classes, such as upper level math classes 5 days of not doing the work and not having the chance to make it up will flat out put your grade away for the semester. i don't believe the point of punishment is to kill a kids GPA.

Actually, if you Google it, you'll find that corporal punishment is not illegal and is still an option. It has been rejected by most districts because of the difficulties (and resultant lawsuits) in its fair and uniform application and enforcement. I predict I'll see its return in my lifetime as society swings around from "don't touch my baby" to "please help me control this little brat."

there is no way corporal punishment will return. any school official would be stupid to use corporal punishment today. why would you create problems for yourself and do something you know is just going to piss people off and create a potential legal problem?

Upon cursory review the relevant Kansas Statutes are:

79-3321(n) - It shall be unlawful for any person who is under 18 years of age to possess or attempt to possess cigarettes or tobacco products.

79-3322(c) - Violation of subsection (m) or (n) of K.S.A. 79-3321, and amendments thereto, is a cigarette or tobacco infraction for which the fine is $25. In addition, the judge may require the juvenile to appear in court with a parent or legal guardian.

79-3323(a) - The following are declared to be common nuisances and contraband:
(2)all cigarettes or tobacco products in the possession of a minor;

and

72-53,107(a) - The use of tobacco products in any school building is hereby prohibited. No board of education of any school district shall allow any person to use tobacco products in any school building.

The matter could be resolved the following business day after receipt of the citation resolving any "legal issue".

In this instance, the option offered by Egg would likely be the most expedient and painless.



Inasmuch as the illegal activity was at a school (taxpayer) sponsored activity, the student signed the Code of Conduct in order to participate in a school (taxpayer) sponsored activity, and I have complete trust in the high school administration and coaching staff, I have no problem with the school "providing an intermediary penalty".

and



Egg, the question begs, do you believe the policy to be discriminatory as it treats students participating in extracurricular activities more harshly than students not participating.

Thanks wrestle007 but my rules at home are a lot stricter than at school. There would be no court case but there would be more punishment waiting at home.

understandable, but i would hope regardless of a parent's rules they would expect there kid to be treated fairly as to not adversely effect there future. (such as flunking a math class could do)

all of which can be avoided by following the rules

We know exactly how you feel we had one last year that was the same way. He didnt give a dang about wrestling unless it was giving him a good name, and he too would not go to any wrestling meets other then at our home town. But we have a new one this year and it seems to be better then it was. So just saying to you good luck and to let you know your not alone in that area.

Mr. Dewitt-
I agree with what you are saying in response of my post. But we all know kids don't always fall the rules and every once in a while a good kid gets in trouble. If this happens at the wrong time a 5-day suspension without the opportunity to make up work could cause them to flunk a class. A lot of good private colleges will not take a kid with an F on there transcript regardless of everything else there. Is that really the point of a suspension?

How many of you stating that you have tough policies regarding these issues also have randon drug testing for involvement in all extra curricular activities. We have a policy that MUST be signed during enrollment requiring the student to agree to random testing BEFORE any participation, including clubs and dances. If it is not turned in at enrollment, it may not be turned in at a later date. The first failed test results in a two week or two contest suspension, whichever is greater, the second results in five more "random" tests and suspension for the remainder of the season. The third failed test results in ineligibility for one calendar year from the last failed test. Would you support that?

yes, I would support that drug testing policy.

as for the statement that kids don't follow the rules, while true, there are some kids that do follow the rules because they don't want to jeopardize their standing. I am not sure what good it is to have rules if there are safety nets in place for the good kids that occasionally screw up. In an age where so many kids contribute so little to their schools, I am inclined to give the high school athlete/activist a break, because they are at least contributing something back to the school. When it comes to drugs, tobacco and alcohol, not only do these actions violate school policy but they are breaking the law. Little eyes are always watching your programs and part of being somebody's hero requires that you abide by a higher standard.

I am not sure what action brought on a 5 day suspension but it would have to be fairly severe. Fortunately most universities no longer put much stock into GPAs so maybe while that student is suspended enjoying his day off he could be prepping for his ACT and working on his purpose statements for college.

That testing policy has made it very easy to enforce drug, tobacco and alcohol violations. For the record, if an athlete or non athlete is found (caught) violating policy the old fashioned way, the same punishments are in place. To my knowledge, we have had almost no complaints due to a suspension.

I hate to say it, but in this age of kids living in a situation with two sets of parents living apart, the kid will often be able to follow the rules of the most lenient household. Some parents will follow the rules of the more lenient parent to have their kids around more often. It's not right, but in many cases, it is reality. That is why, in my opinion, schools have to take the lead in raising kids. Right or wrong, that is our responsibility.

Not to get off the subject, but since the thread is Destructive Behavior and Punishment, what is the policy for the following and your thoughts.

1. A high school coach/teacher using profanity in the practice room.
2. A High school coach using the F*** word while yelling at his athletes and parents.
3. A High school coach getting into the face of a parent and using the same profanity as above while in the high school.


Just curious,

Most school boards would have little choice but to terminate a coach for any of the above infractions.

i was just using the 5 day suspension as an example. a 1 day could be applied. i mean, if one of 6 tests in a semester was admitted on that day and went down as a zero that could be serious. and you are right, a lot of colleges look more at GPA, but there are still private colleges that will not admit you if there is an F anywhere on your transcript. i realize the chance of everything falling into place like this and a one day suspension really hurting a kid's chances are slim but it could happen. and i dont think its fair for a kid to be punished in the way of college scholarships/entrance for one mistake he made say his sophomore year.

as far as the infractions mentioned above i think you are very wrong that coaches would be terminated. plenty of coaches have used and will continue to use the F-bomb and other profanity and keep their jobs.

Someone wrote "OSS is the harshest penalty which a public school can impose. That it is looked upon as a "day off" speaks volumes about the way our society takes for granted the amazing concept of a free and public education and how parents view it as well. "Back in the day" if you got kicked out of school you got worked hard at home during the "time off." "

My response to that is that school isn't free. And because some people look at it like that could explain why our education system is in such a mess, and we are not able to see that vouchers are a good thing. School choice is a good thing. Competition amongst schools is a good thing.

Doug,

Our public school system is free. Granted our tax dollars pay for it, but everyone is afforded the right to an education regardless of whether they pay much in taxes or not. In my opinion that is what has made America the greatest country in the world, and it does say something that many consider a day of OSS as a day off.

Vouchers are just another way of saying we are taking the money the public is paying in taxes and taking that from the public schools and giving it to a private, usually faith oriented, school. These schools are not required by law to provide the same opportunities to physically or mentally disabled students as are public schools. They are also not required to take the same assessments or be in compliance with No Child Left Behind in anyway.

These private schools could pick and choose who they let in- in effect they could choose to only take the best and brightest, all at the tax payers expense if vouchers were introduced. This does not seem like a level playing field to compete on. I don't disagree that Competition is bad, but the competition should be on a level playing field. I say that if a Private school were to accept vouchers (public money), then they should have no right to refuse who they let in- just like a public school. If they want to collect public money, make them meet every requirement that the public schools must meet in order to get that same money. That would be a level field of competition.

absolutely in agreement with you coachtwink. people can say what they want about public education, and i know its far from perfect. but its the only schools in america that tries to make something out of the Mentally Handicapped, Physically Handicapped, ESL(English Second language), Behavior Disorders, etc. If your idea of leveling the playing field is allowing vouchers to private schools while still allowing the private schools to accept, reject, or kick anyone out for any or no reason at all then I'm sorry but you aren't seeing things very realistically.

I don't see the point in forcing him to stay home from school for a day. I agree that keeping him away from the classroom prevents him from learning (and some kids would say rewards him for his behavior by letting him stay home for a day and sleep in). I also think the mandatory awareness class and the suspension from athletic competition are fine.
I've never understood why people smoke or chew tobacco, but I've always had an even tougher time understanding why supposedly health-conscious athletes do it. Regardless, kids make mistakes. That's part of growing up. I just hope he learns his lesson from it and is a better person for it.

Is school free? Don't you have to pay a fee when you enroll? You have to pay for lunches too right?