"How govt can support schools that teach evolution (anti-religion), against the constitution, and not support private schools is bull." This was his argument, secular funding is contradictory to his religious vs. evolution argument.

If a state can fund evolution, why not religion?

1) Religion isn't secular
2) Evolution is a very BROAD way to look at things (secular)

There is a reason for the establishment clause, it is in our founding regulations. To stray from a strict interpretation of the constitution is to stray from the country itself (in my opinion).

Now, if the parochial school is benefiting student positively without mention of god, then church and state has been separated and funding can/should be allocated.

The constitution has the seperation of church and state in there to prevent there from being one national religion. In the old days, peasants use to be taxed to support a religion that they do not believe in. The Church of England being one. The framers of the constitution put this amendment in the constitution to keep the government from establishing a national government thus taxing people for a religion they are not. Not teaching some kind of creationism or even mentioning it is not teaching the full spectrum. Why should I pay taxes to support a school that teaches evolution that I believe is anti-religion. Big bang theory is not science it is a theory. It cannot be proven just like creationism cannot be proven. It takes just as much faith to believe in the big bang theory as does creationism. I believe humans have "adapted" to meet our enviroment. This is evident with the heights our our grandparents compared to our heights. But to support one therory and not the other is in your words asinine.

"Why should I pay taxes to support a school that teaches evolution that I believe is anti-religion. Big bang theory is not science it is a theory. It cannot be proven just like creationism cannot be proven. It takes just as much faith to believe in the big bang theory as does creationism. I believe humans have "adapted" to meet our enviroment. This is evident with the heights our our grandparents compared to our heights. But to support one therory and not the other is in your words asinine. "

Evolution isn't inherently anti-religion, that comment doesn't make sense. Evolution does not directly attack any particular religion or debark a holy testament. You should pay taxes for evolution because evolution is real, it happened/is happening. We evolved from subspecies, there is nothing you can do about it.

You have no evidence that god is real (I am not claiming the he/she doesn't exist, just trying to prove a point). There is infinitely more CONCLUSIVE evidence of evolution than there is of a deity because there is no evidence of a deity, there is only faith.

Why does someone support evolution? Because it make sense, it is backed by the smartest people on this planet, and there is undeniable evidence. Whether you like it or not, it will continue to be taught and as the years pass, it will be a secular idea (even though it already is accepted widely). I support it because I don't support bologna, kthx.

"Big bang theory is not science it is a theory." That was likely the most ignorant comment I have heard all week. Go read a Newsweek or something.

It looks like we forgot this post is supposed to be "Good Job Aquinas" or "You recruit we hate you". Scientist and Preachers please move to the other forum.

Yeah, I don't know how it got to evolution and how tax-payers want their dollars to be spent on education, although it is a healthy disscussion.
The bottom line is Aquinas could not have asked for a better season by praying to their diety or from the process of evolution.....
and now there are just 33 more teams left ahead until the national forums accuse us of recruiting!
Godspeed

Wow, this topic no longer has any business being on the wrestling forum.

Um didn't they just find jesus's body somewhere else, looks like you guys are waisting your time on sundays when you could be sleeping, evolution rocks. And big bang was real not just theory.

No they didn't find Jesus' body. They supposidly found his sons, Mary Magdaline, and Virgin Mary's. They have no way of proving this is any relation to Jesus. What are they going to do ask him to come down from heaven and give a dna sample lol.

Dumbass 1 and Dumbass 2 fight about it somewhere else.

Take it to the soccer board!

Hey Beeson eat me! If I want to argue about something I can. There is nothing, I dont think, that says we cant argue about something in here that relates to schools.

Yes, but it's an annoyance to those who have to skim over it in order to find the posts on wrestling. Therefore, since this is a wrestling forum, it's common courtesy to not waste people's time with four pages of an argument that only a select few people want to read.

I would probably just chew you up and spit you out.

thanks guys. this post has offered me with some good humor...things i find funny/ironic.

1. The guy arguing the Christian point of view and I would guess considers himself a Christian said "eat me" to someone else.

2. Someone actually "And big bang was real not just theory." man, talk about convincing supporting evidence.

3. People are complaining about the evolution being taught in Kansas public schools, which is undoubtedly one of the most conservative states on the issue.

I'd like to add a couple final thoughts although I really shouldn't even post on this topic. Everyone should really shut up about tax dollars. Public schools don't want tax dollars going to private schools. But heres the kicker, NEITHER DO MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS! As soon as private schools become state funded they have to play by a different set of rules. They have to educate anyone that comes(LD, BD, English 2nd language, etc etc) just like the public schools. The thing that makes private schools nice is they can take or refuse anyone they want. Give them state money and they cannot do that. So get off the tax dollar kick...private school officials don't want it either.
Evolution is going to be taught to some degree in schools. As a conservative Christian I accept that, Biology class taught me things and made me a more well rounded individual, it did not make me reject my faith, nor will it anyone else's who's faith is worth much anyway.

Undeniable evidence? Name one fact about evolution. You will find that it's anti-science. Everything that we observe on this earth devolves. The law of entropy alone proves that evolution is an inverted fantasy.

Interesting thread....

Congratulations to all the wrestlers who made it to state. And to STA who represented eastern Kansas quite well.

Looks like religion can still get folks all riled up.

Remember, it's called "a leap of faith" because it isn't logical or scientific. It's not supposed to be. Evolution is irrelevant to a person's belief in God.

Evolution can't be denied. It's still going on. Again, that doesn't mean you can't believe in God.

It's too late to put much religion back into the public schools, but lots of schools have morning prayer groups and they open up the schools to be used for church services on Sunday. So there's still an opportunity to learn about God even without going to Church on Sunday.

The Constitution doesn't contain the phrase "separation of church and state." It was first used in a letter written by, I believe, Thomas Jefferson. The Supreme Court picked it up but the idea comes from the Establishment Clause. It's complicated and historical. Most of the founding fathers were Deists. Not all were even believers. It is interesting history. They didn't all agree on religion, but they all agreed they didn't want religion, any religion, controlling our government.

Take a look around the World and ask yourself if it wouldn't be a more peaceful place if people weren't killing each other over religious beliefs. Strange business killing in God's name.

And maybe they did find Jesus' casket...that doesn't change anything. If you must tie your faith to historical facts, or the absence of historical facts, you are going to be lead astray.

Godspeed.

By bringing up entropy, I will assume that you are simply referring to the second law of thermodynamics.

The usual anti-evolution argument that abuses the second law usually says something like "Everything tends toward increasing entropy (randomness and disorder). Evolution of life involves the development of great complexity and order. Therefore, evolution is impossible by the second law of thermodynamics." While it sounds simple, there are major flaws in this argument that render it worthless.

It is only in isolated systems that entropy must increase. Systems that can exchange energy with their surroundings have no such restriction. For example, water can freeze into ice (becoming more ordered and decreasing its entropy) by giving up heat to its surroundings (this increases the entropy of the surroundings, of course). In the case of the Earth, the Sun is a major source of energy, and the Earth also radiates energy into space. One consequence of thermodynamics is that, when energy comes from a "hot" source (like the Sun) and is output to a "cold" reservoir (like space), it can be used to do work, which means that "complexity" or "order" can be produced. The main point is that, for a non-isolated system, an increase in "complexity" (to the extent one can connect that concept with the thermodynamic entropy, which is far from straightforward for living creatures) does not necessarily indicate a violation of the 2nd law. A good example is the development of a human fetus into an adult; this is the production of a more thermodynamically complex system but involves no violation of the laws of thermodynamics.


That is from an expert of molecular thermodynamic's website , because he could put it into much easier words than I can (he also knows a whole lot more than I) He also happens to be a devout christian.


To touch more on Evolution as a theory. A common argument by proponents on creationism and intelligent design is that Evolution is JUST a theory - and this is true. If you are skeptical by nature, unfamiliar with the terminology of science, and unaware of the overwhelming evidence, you might even be tempted to say that it's "just" a theory. In the same sense, relativity as described by Albert Einstein is "just" a theory. The notion that Earth orbits around the sun rather than vice versa, offered by Copernicus in 1543, is a theory. Continental drift is a theory. The existence, structure, and dynamics of atoms? Atomic theory. Even electricity is a theoretical construct, involving electrons, which are tiny units of charged mass that no one has ever seen. Each of these theories is an explanation that has been confirmed to such a degree, by observation and experiment, that knowledgeable experts accept it as fact. That's what scientists mean when they talk about a theory: not a dreamy and unreliable speculation, but an explanatory statement that fits the evidence.

"Take a look around the World and ask yourself if it wouldn't be a more peaceful place if people weren't killing each other over religious beliefs. Strange business killing in God's name."

I have never thought of it that way... interesting.

a lot of people want to make the argument that the world would be a better place w/o religion. thats bull. some people do kill in the name of their god. that is true. but overall faith makes a person better. the christian-judeo principals that most of us live by in this country are the standards that make a lot of people good moral individuals. yes, their are extremists, but extremists are unbalanced individuals and a lot of them would kill even without their religion. and lets remember OKC bomber Timothy McVeigh was an athiest and he is not the only one...murderers/terrorists are unbalanced individuals, some kill because of a faith, some kill without a faith. I think the bottom line though is the faith influence in America makes nearly everyone who is of faith a better person.