Red,

I might have been around for a few of the same lessons you were and studied from the same BOOK.

Altough Mrs. Miller still claims she is taller than me, I disagree.

Back to the subject of bottom postion, the score becomes the most important reason, even if it is tied I think neutral is the best choice. Unless the flip situation does not give you the option to defer. The a good stand-up is a must and creat some space.

Coach Brown

"If all coaches would, in mass, stand up and push back by helping with youth programs and attending events outside of the high school season what choice would the KSHSAA have? Are they going to suspend a major percentage of the coaches and/or programs?" Cokeley

"If all wrestlers who do not want to follow school attendance rules set by their school administration would, in mass, stand up and skip school but still attend practice, what choice would the school have? Are they going to suspend a major percentage of the athletes and/or their teams?"

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it Cokeley? Fortunately, we, or most of us, anyway, still believe rules, while limiting what we WANT to do, are necessary for an orderly society.

I have to aggree with the basics arguement. If more kids would be brought up to wrestle with basic skills, then advanced as they mature into the sport, you would remedy this. I saw, many times over, kids who where "one-trick" wrestlers. Learn that defense, they were done. The best seem to have solid basic fundamental skills. My son won a state championship this year. If you watched him, you saw a;double-leg takedown, sit-out off bottom, and many 1/2 nelson pins. These were taught to him by his first kids coaches. And they were stressed for many years after he started. While he utilizes many different moves he has learned thru the years, he always seemed to incorporate the basics.

WHAT ABOUT THIS???

Art. 5: During the school year, but outside the season of a
sport, coaches/coaches� aides may not coach in practice
or competition those students they will be coaching the
following year in that sport.

Art. 6: Beginning with the Saturday before Memorial Day,
concluding Saturday of SCW #4, football, volleyball, and
basketball coaches/coaches� aides may:

a. Supervise use of indoor/outdoor facilities by athletes
in their sport. Sport specifi c instruction and coaching
by anyone may not take place in conjunction with the
supervision.

b. Work with individual students or a single group (no
more than three (3) students) provided instruction is
on a voluntary basis, and requested by the student(s).
Such instruction must occur at a time separate from
supervised sessions defined in (a).

Art. 7: Coaches/coaches� aides other than football, volleyball,
and basketball are not subject to the restrictions
outlined in Article (6).

Art. 8: c. All sport coaches may conduct a one-week team
camp for members of the school squad. All camps must
conclude before Sunday of SCW #5.

What about it?

Art. 6: Beginning with the Saturday before Memorial Day,
concluding Saturday of SCW #4, football, volleyball, and
basketball coaches/coaches� aides may:

b. Work with individual students or a single group (no
more than three (3) students) provided instruction is
on a voluntary basis, and requested by the student(s).
Such instruction must occur at a time separate from
supervised sessions defined in (a).

I guess I don't understand what your point is either.

What it means is that from Memorial Day until about Labor Day vb, fb, & bb coaches can work with their athletes individually or in groups no larger than three at a time. There are NO restrictions placed on the number of athletes a wrestling coach can work with during this period of time.

true

I just thought everyone already knew that. I believe that rule was changed as a result of lobbying by the KWCA if I'm not mistaken.

From some of the comments posted on this forum, it would lead one to believe that there are many who do not know of this loose KSHSAA summer coach-athlete policy in place for those sports that are NOT vb, fb & bb.

I know many coaches take full advantage of it.

If a high School coach can coach his kids in the months of Jan, Feb, Jun, July, Aug, Nov, and Dec... 7 months a year and lift weight the other months... then how much more time is the coach supposed to commit. I don't have wife and kids yet and I know I invest a lot of time. Some coaches with family, who teach school and have lesson planning and grade papers and other things like church and other organizations just cant give up their lives to just coach wrestling. There are plenty of other avenues where wrestlers can wrestle and receive great training during the school year outside of wrestling season.

But thats just my opinion.

The heart of FS/GR season is April and May.

Cokeley:

In Iowa, we have the same rules Kansas has, as in no coaching by high school coaches outside the season during the school year. What the smart coaches do for freestyle season is send the kids to clubs that are coached by college kids, or find a non-school coach that has a good background in FS/GR. And as Travius pointed out, you can still lift with the kids outside of the season.

You can succeed without cheating.

Why should we have to send our kids to other coaches? don't you think they would be better off if mabe the rules were diffent? Just a though and as far as coaches working with high school kids in jan,feb,june,july,aug,nov,and dec, not our high school coach your dreaming and I would bet most small schools don't.
Right now are asst coach is the only one working with most of the kids trying to keep them in shape to wrestle and in the mean time were waiting for the third head coach to come to town in the past five years, and that should be by the time school starts. Has anyone got any ideas how to build a good team with this program?

Let me introduce myself as a new member. I grew up in Wichita, attended and wrestled for Campus High (you won't find my name in any record books, I wasn't very good then), and later served as an assistant coach at OU from 1971-1974. I then moved back to Wichita where I helped Kapaun-Mt. Carmel become a wrestling power under the direction of Duwane Miller. After completing graduate school I moved to Phoenix where I still reside.

I checked the website because I'm coming home this weekend to visit my ailing mother. I was hoping to attend a local freestyle tournament but alas didn't find one.

It was a pleasure to read this topic about improving wrestling in Kansas. The civility on the forum is a decided improvement over the AZWrestler.com forum. I have intentionally stepped on a few toes because what I see in Arizona is inferior to what I know is being done in Oklahoma and Kansas.

Last Satudrday I said hello to a coach who I think does a good job and was berated for some of my comments, and was told I wasn't in the trenches like he was. I will write him a long letter listing my "in the trenches activities". The statement that really stuck in my craw was that it would take 2 or 3 generations to get Arizona wrestling to a significantly higher level. I disagree because I know the great strides that have been made in Kansas since I graduated from high school in 1963.

I got my nickname which I use as my log in name from the late Tony Bontz, who along with Dave Unruh, Bob Hershberger, Duwane Miller, and Ben Bennett (Junction City) were instrumental in developing kids wrestling first in Kansas and later on a national basis. Lee Roy Smith the Executive Director of the National Hall of Fame told me that USA Wrestling essentially adopted the bylaws written in Kansas.

What I'd like to know are what are the improvements that were made in Kansas wrestling since I left the state in 1978 to get it to the enviable position today where it has the highest ratio of USA Wrestling competitors per capita of any state (correct me if I'm wrong).

me email is warrenapplegate@yahoo.com

I would like to enlighten my compatriots in my adopted state on what can be done to make similar strides for improving wrestling through all levels.

I think this has gotten away from the original intent of this thread. I certainly want to hear more about fundamentals from those who know. I have been taking notes.

There is another thread discussing the rules. I posted my thoughts on that topic there.

Please tell us more about technique, fundamentals, best practices, etc.

I would like to hear more about how others conduct practice.. I was at the Brute Nationals and listened to a coach from PA who had some enlightening concepts about how to conduct practice.

just checking