What is official first day of practice this year? I assume a HS kid can go to any tourney prior to that? How about participating in the Cliff Keen kickoff? If HS practice starts before the Kickoff, can the kid wait to start HS practice til after Kickoff? I have some parents asking, as they would like to get some of the great competition that you see at CK Kickoff without hurting their HS eligibility.

The first day of practice is November 12th!

We are considering doing a midnight madness!! Has anyone tried it before?

I would also be interested in the legality of that senario. Are we able to sit out of the practice room and all meetings until the Monday after the Kick-Off Classic and then "elect" to participate in the wrestling program officially on the following Monday? Any A.D.'s out there have the answer? Beim's, whats your thoughts on this?

Tim,

I believe that you have found the loophole. Verify for yourself.

24/7

let me be the first to say that this is an excellent example of KSHSAA rules being prohibitive of our athletes best interests to compete at the same levels at neighboring states. However, it would be a pretty "prima donna" type move to skip out on the first week of High School practice simply to compete in one tournament...might as well skip out the first two weeks and get into the Oklahoma Open as well.

Lawrence High does it every year. The rule is that if you go to practice at midnight, it is not mandatory for you to attend the practice after school. Then they spend the night in the school and the next morning the parents come up early and make them breakfest. The kids look foreward to it every year. So go ahead Randy it is a great bonding experience for the kids.

In regards to setting out practice and particpating at Cliff Keen:
I wouldn't be coy about it. If you are thinking of doing this then call KSHAA and ask if it is okay. Why risk the eligibility?

And if you skip out on the first two weeks of practice you might as well etc., etc., etc..

Prior to attempting a midnight practice I recommend reviewing the rule regarding the fall buffer week with the high school administration.

The fall athletic buffer week begins on Monday (November 5, 2007) and runs through Sunday (November 11, 2007). The gymnasium is to be closed to students outside of school hours.

I do not believe it to be a good idea to have students loitering on school property in order to be timely for a practice to begin in the very early hours of Monday morning, and then report back to school for classes several hours later.

Is Monday, November 12, 2007 a Holiday at Central Heights High School?

In our district school is in session on November 12.

Mahan - You may be correct, there could be some that would want to be negative about it and call it a "prima donna" type move but it would be fine with me if someone took advantage of it as long as it was acceptable by KSHAA. If it was acceptable and my son wanted to go to CK and most importantly - his coach was open to the idea I certainly would consider letting him do it. Especially if I were in Southeast Kansas where its such a short trip for an oustanding level of competition. Is it a "prima donna" type move to not go out for football in order to lift and practice wrestling a couple nights each week instead? I would hope not, and I would really have to consider how much I would be concerned about other opionions if it helped in the advancement of a wreslter.

Tim -
The coaches pre-approval may be the thing that makes it violate the rules. I got to tell you ... it is exciting seeing all all these guys from School boy duels getting ready for high school. Are you shocked that your guy is in high school? How big is he now.

In my opinion, holding out from a week of high school practice to compete at the Cliff Keen kickoff would not be worth it, from my experience the first week of practice is the hardest. Your'e not in the best shape, and my coach likes to work everyone hard to weed out the ones who aren't serious about wrestling. I used to think that Cliff Keen tournaments and all the tournaments that Roller held were very tough, but after my freshman year in high school i realized that those tournaments did not turn out to be as tough as i thought they were.. Example, 8th grade year i had it pretty much easy at the kickoff, i won and pinned everyone there, then tulsa i made it to the finals but then lost, i was 145 for those tournaments, then my freshman year i made the journey to 125 and ended up getting to wrestle tough seniors like Keaton Baker or Cory Bloodgood, Baker was the defending high school state champ at the time

Barry - That could cetainly be true. I would sure want some form of documentation from KSHAA in hand before acting out on it. I dont see it working for us, but I would have absolutely no problem with anyone who did get approval and carried it out.
Yes, the high school years have definitly "snuck up" on us and its both exciting and nervousness combined, wish we were wrestling already! Doesnt seem like he should be in H.S. (doesnt act like it either, but he gets that from his mother! :))
I have to say that the Schoolboy team for 2 years is one of the best things that Taylor could have participated in along with the Middle School duals. I am as excited about following the path of all those teammates as I am for Taylor to get started. And YES, I know its only preseason "guesses" and opinions, but it is sure fun to see all those young guys that committed to the Schoolboy/Middle School team(s) being mentioned in the rankings with the upperclassmen from 1/2/3A through 6A!

If you are wrestling 103 in HS in KS I guarantee you will get no better competition during the season that what you will get at the CK Kickoff. This may be true for 112 as well. You will not find many upperclassmen in those weights.

I am with Moeder on this, all the way. I already sent the question into Bowden for his clarification. I really wish the KSHSAA would move out of the dark ages so our kids could participate in the big time HS tournaments as well.

The main problem here is that the Moeders, Cokeleys, and Isenbergs are the wrestlers that really do not benefit the most from CK and other tournaments. These kids are already seasoned, accomplished athletes that all in all have a tremendous amount of mat time already. The kids that would benefit the most would be the freshman that cannot make varsity and clearly need more mat time. KSHSAA is behind the ball by not allowing our average kids to develope and take it to the next level. Our outstanding kids that are pushing this envelope already are really the ones who benefit the least.

KSHSAA Handbook 2007-2008 Edition
Rule 22 - Outside Competion
Art 1 - A student who is a member of a school athletic,scholars' bowl or debate squad effective Tuesday following Labor Day through Friday preceding Memorial Day may not participate as a member of an outside team or as an independent competitor in the same sport,scholars'bowl or debate activity.
Art 3 - A student becomes a member of a school's athletic squad, scholars' bowl or debate team when he or she first participates in a practice session.

Looks like it is legal to sit out the first week of practice.Go to CK Kickoff and start practice the 19th.

This is a reply from Rick Bowden on this issue. This agrees with Top Hat's post.

"The first day that wrestling practice for high school students can begin is November 12, 2007. Since MS/JH interscholastic wrestling teams have wrestling seasons that vary across the state, MS/JH seasons of sport are set by the schools. The KSHSAA has told MS/JH schools with interscholastic wrestling that since they set their own season of sport, that they can set their starting dates for practice within a reasonable time frame. A reasonable time frame means in general that starting practice approximately two weeks prior to the start of a season."



"Prior to a student starting practice with a school team, they may participate in competitions in the same sport. Once a student begins practicing with or attending practices for the school team, they have joined the school team. If after joining the school team the student participates in a non-school team competition in that same sport, they have violated KSHSAA rules."

this is ridiculous. what kind of statement are you sending to your coach and your team if you skip a week of practice for one tournament? plus, you SHOULD be playing football up until, if not past, buffer week.

I can see your point about missing practice with your team to wrestle in one tournament on your own, but saying that all wrestlers should be playing football? Huh?

How can you, with so much seriousness, be on a wrestling talk forum with the name Jayhawk Pride? The Jayhawks turn their nose up on the great sport of wrestling almost 40 years ago.

Back to the topic. I feel ALL coaches should ENCOURAGE any of their wrestlers who are physically prepared and age eligible to miss the first week and go to the CK Kickoff. It will be the best experience that 90% of the freshmen in HS would be able to get. Lets face it, JV wrestling in KS is the equivalent of Kids Novice or Middle School/JH wrestling at best. What are you really missing, check in on Monday, wrestle Tue thru Thur and get out early for the football game on Friday. Get off your soap box and help make a difference.

Louden Swain said it best "I got news for you coach, wrestling is not a team sport."