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 Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: ravincan]
#125284
03/19/08 09:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 60
Malay #189
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This is my opinion. If coach Bickley's team already has good grades and has consistently maintained good grades then maybe he should start to concentrate on improving what is lacking. I personally think that Fort Hays is a good school and im am going to go there next year. This is no way shape or form a diss on Coach Bickley because hopefully I will be wrestling for Fort Hays in 2009-2010 pending on my knee and how it heals from surgery. I will also say this, if winning isn't important then why do they keep score? I don't think that if you lose you are a bad person but i wish that Fort Hays was a very successful team, and was consistently placing in the top 10 at Nationals to represent for Kansas.
Michael Malay
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Malay #189]
#125301
03/20/08 12:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 101
maybeimamazed
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Eric:
It's probably not fair to hold Coach Bickley's own college career up against the ones you've been around for the last year. Be realistic; NO ONE could match Zalesky, Brands, Gable, Hand or the rest. No one could measure up that.
This is an interesting topic. Eight years is a long time for the results that the Tigers have had, especially with being the only wrestling school in the state much of that time. With as few wrestling programs as there are anymore, there are a lot of good assistant coaches out there looking for a chance to step into the head coaching shoes. The question is whether or not this is the right place to debate this topic. I honestly don't think it is.
But the most telling thing to me is the post from Danny Grater's mom. No matter what the level, there is no higher honor for a coach than to get praise like that from the parent of one of your athletes. And I agree with her in the idea Eric, that maybe you should talk to Danny or some of the other Tiger wrestlers before you make you assessment.
Jeff Holmes,
Back In Iowa
You just kinda wasted my precious time
But don't think twice, it's all right
Bob Dylan, 1963
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: maybeimamazed]
#125318
03/20/08 02:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
Bronco Wrestler
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Talking to the wrestlers themselves won't change the fact that FHSU has never placed in the top 5 at the NCAA Div. II national tournament. Bickley holding the honor as the winningest dual coach in history is huge, but only being that few losses away from the most losses as well doesn't look as good. It means the teams are mediocre at best, .500%.
Also I know the arguement about having a great team GPA should count yes it should, but UNK did win the National Tournament this year and placed in the top 3 academically. You can have the best of both worlds....
This debate is basically pointless until someone defines what is success, and don't tell me to define it, because I really don't know.
Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Cokeley]
#125334
03/20/08 05:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2
Robert Annon Jr.
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Like Gonzo and Leanna, I am also a proud parent of a FHSU wrestler. James had several out-of-state offers to wrestle at the college level, but chose FHSU.
Coming fresh from Norton’s rich wrestling tradition and under Coach Bill Johnson’s guidance and direction, our wish for James was to continue his education and wrestle at a Kansas College with the same family-type environment, hard work ethic, and sportsmanship that Coach Johnson promotes in his wrestlers. This we found at FHSU and Coach Bickley.
The Norton and Hays wrestling fans and community support, along with great coaches, such as Deyton Hager, Bill Johnson, and Cody Bickley all contributed to James’ success on the mat and attaining his “All-American” goal. I can honestly say that these coaches have helped mold and influence our son in a very positive way. My wife and I support Coach Bickley, his staff and their coaching efforts and recognize the contributions Cody has made to the great sport of wrestling.
Bobby Annon
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Robert Annon Jr.]
#125366
03/20/08 02:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 393
Ryan Jilka
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First of all, I'm biased. I roomed with Cody and think the world of him. Great guy, great friend.
I have no problem with people questioning what is best for programs. Usually it comes from people that are actually tied to that program, but it is not always the case. I admire Eric's wrestling accomplishments, but I think it is the way that you've blasted Coach Bickley that is questionable. It appears to be either something personal or a way to get attention for yourself as a coaching prospect. If it's something else, I'm missing it.
Although I feel that Cody is the best person for this job, I'd like to know what better candidate would like this job? Who'd like to put the hours in for such little pay in this part of the state and keep the academic aspect at the high level it is? Recruiting to Hays is only getting harder as the state's best wrestlers seem to shift farther to the east. I know that western Kansas still has some outstanding wrestlers, but for the most part, the best wrestlers are coming out of larger metro areas. These kids don't all want to go to western Kansas to live (although I hope several Goddard boys do).
I've never coached at the college level, but I do know that being a head coach at any level is MUCH more difficult that people realize. It's not just about your knowledge of the sport and trying to teach technique. It's being a psychologist, a parent, a boss, and a mentor.
I think Coach Bickley is doing a great job! He'll have some down years, but he'll still be working to get the most out of what he has to work with. You can't wrestle for them. He'll still represent the university in a way that the alumni can be proud of, and he will be instilling values in the young men that will serve them far beyond their years of wrestling.
"The days I can keep my gratitude higher than my expectations...those are good days" ~ Judy Hubbard
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Ryan Jilka]
#125381
03/20/08 04:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 101
maybeimamazed
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Eric (realizing, of course, that you're probably in St. Louis and won't be seeing this for a few days!):
Ryan just brought up an excellent point. If the best Kansas kids have left the state, where have they gone? You went to Iowa City, Kriegbaum to the Air Force Academy, Robeson, Pursel and Akin to (sorry) Ames, the Lawrenez brothers to Cedar Falls, LaMar and the Hoxie kid who's name escapes me to Lincoln and Garcia and Taplin to Omaha. Nothing against the town; personally I like Hays, but it would be a tough place to recruit to. It's out there in relative middle of nowhere, and with the competition out there for the best kids, Hays might be a tough sell.
And while I have no idea what kind of administrative support Bickley's program gets from the FHSU administration, it could NEVER match what you've been used to. Kansas is so lucky to still have an at least D-II school with wrestling (since the D-I schools don't have the stones to add it) and it needs the support of the whole Kansas wrestling community. But make it positive, and make the program something attractive in every way.
You just kinda wasted my precious time
But don't think twice, it's all right
Bob Dylan, 1963
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: maybeimamazed]
#126001
03/24/08 10:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 79
Falcon Grappler
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You know, I can honestly say this topic caught my eye and before posting I took about a week to think about. I have come to this conclusion..... It is Hays, KS people!!!! I do wish all of our good kids like Garcia, Elliott, Edison, etc. etc. etc. would go ahead and go to Hays but I can understand why they don't. It's an island in the middle of Kansas where all there really is to do is drink and get in trouble by an over barring police force that spends the majority of it's evenings on bicycles trying to sneak up on college kids drinking on the side walk.
I was at Hays for a year. I was coached by Bob Smith in his last year and decided to transfer out after that year. Coach Bickley was an amazing assistant at the time and to this day I still implement a lot of what Bickley taught me in that short year into my coaching style now. I can honestly say my largest wrestling regret in my life was leaving Bickley and Hays. For my life it was the right choice. But for my wrestling career... very bad decision.
This guy can coach. He knows wrestling and he is tough as hell. If any of my kids asked me if I thought Hays was a good choice I would 100% confirm it!!! Is 8 years a long time.. to some. It does not seem like eight years since I left Hays. However, I guarantee that man (coach) has worked his butt off to make his athletes better people, better citizens, and better wrestlers.
Recuiting is hard in the college business. Especially when you are trying to sell Hays to a bunch of kids who are living in a high speed generation and think everyone owes them the world. At this point, Hays has a good coach. He might want to use this as a wake up call and start making some changes but overall... He is doing a good job and I support him 100%!!
Now get your butt too work and put that team back in the top ten and shut these people up!!!!
Michael Church - The young one 
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Falcon Grappler]
#126005
03/24/08 10:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 115
nastyway
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Posts: 115 |
bickley probally wouldn"t want a face to face with luedke he would get the smack down
the nasty way is the best way
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Falcon Grappler]
#126011
03/24/08 11:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,762
Dean Welsh
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HA! Great post Church, the Younger. Seriously, I enjoyed it and you brought up many excellent points. Thanks for sharing. On a personal note - I'm curious as to where you went AFTER Hays and how it worked out for you? If you don't care to share, that is cool. Or, PM me. I just like hearing/learning from others. Take care. You know, I can honestly say this topic caught my eye and before posting I took about a week to think about. I have come to this conclusion..... It is Hays, KS people!!!! I do wish all of our good kids like Garcia, Elliott, Edison, etc. etc. etc. would go ahead and go to Hays but I can understand why they don't. It's an island in the middle of Kansas where all there really is to do is drink and get in trouble by an over barring police force that spends the majority of it's evenings on bicycles trying to sneak up on college kids drinking on the side walk.
I was at Hays for a year. I was coached by Bob Smith in his last year and decided to transfer out after that year. Coach Bickley was an amazing assistant at the time and to this day I still implement a lot of what Bickley taught me in that short year into my coaching style now. I can honestly say my largest wrestling regret in my life was leaving Bickley and Hays. For my life it was the right choice. But for my wrestling career... very bad decision.
This guy can coach. He knows wrestling and he is tough as hell. If any of my kids asked me if I thought Hays was a good choice I would 100% confirm it!!! Is 8 years a long time.. to some. It does not seem like eight years since I left Hays. However, I guarantee that man (coach) has worked his butt off to make his athletes better people, better citizens, and better wrestlers.
Recuiting is hard in the college business. Especially when you are trying to sell Hays to a bunch of kids who are living in a high speed generation and think everyone owes them the world. At this point, Hays has a good coach. He might want to use this as a wake up call and start making some changes but overall... He is doing a good job and I support him 100%!!
Now get your butt too work and put that team back in the top ten and shut these people up!!!!
D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
***Dean plays well with others!!! ;-)
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Dean Welsh]
#126035
03/25/08 01:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 190
Holliday Hays
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Posts: 190 |
The fact that Hays is in the middle of nowhere is a pure BS excuse. You want middle of nowhere? Travel 6 1/2 hours northwest of Hays to Chadron, Nebraska. Chadron State seems to be able to get quality wrestlers. And last I checked, Kearney wasn't exactly Las Vegas, Nevada as far as entertainment. In fact they're hours from the nearest town of any significant size (Lincoln).
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Holliday Hays]
#126044
03/25/08 02:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
Bronco Wrestler
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Again I must ask, why does the roster not include more JUCO transfers from 4 of the top JUCO programs in the nations? Surely with such a wealth of talent less than a stone's throw away, you would take advantage of it instead of letting them get away.
Baldridge, Elliot, Adilov, Sutton-Kearn, Kumbarov, Edgmon, Gilliland, Shippers, Dennis, Garcia, Prater all come to mind that would've or would make a great addition to the FHSU team, and several I've spoken with said they have haven't been contacted by FHSU about transferring.
I must ask why not use such a valuable resource?
Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Bronco Wrestler]
#126045
03/25/08 02:37 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 63
jayhawk pride
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maybe FHSU doesn't have any scholarships to offer them, or maybe they want guys who will be with their program for 4-years, or maybe these guys don't meet the apparently strict academic standards at fort hays
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Dean Welsh]
#126047
03/25/08 02:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 79
Falcon Grappler
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Posts: 79 |
I transfered to Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City, TN. Had a great group of work-out partners in Olympic Bronze Medalist Lazaro Reinoso (beat John Smith in 88 at Barcelona) and Tony Morgan 2 X All American from Oklahoma. Great college experience. Never All-American but got to stretch my college wrestling career from 5 years to 6 years.
Michael Church - The young one
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: jayhawk pride]
#126141
03/25/08 10:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
Bronco Wrestler
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maybe FHSU doesn't have any scholarships to offer them, or maybe they want guys who will be with their program for 4-years, or maybe these guys don't meet the apparently strict academic standards at fort hays Why wouldn't you take a guy who can come in right away and make an impact? I guarantee you that Baldridge could have started & earned big points for FHSU at 133 this year... Prater could have started at 149, Gilliland had a good shot at 149 as well... Why not take a sure thing & give your younger guys a chance to develope around proven talent? I think you'd be stupid to turn your back on people who already proved they have what it takes at the next level... I'm 100% sure it wouldn't hurt the practice room having them.
Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Bronco Wrestler]
#126144
03/25/08 10:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,595
usawks1
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Alex, Did Baldridge, Prater and Gilliland want to wrestle for FHSU and were turned down or not get recruited? I know they (Bickley and FHSU) have taken wrestlers from the Junior College ranks before! (Patton, Phillips, Jobe are a few that immediately come to mind)
I don't think we can overlook that FHSU has to sign wrestlers that want to be there! Some will gladly accept an offer from Hays but many will not.
My opinion, FHSU is a great school, Bickley is a great coach! But why haven't we heard of FHSU football or basketball in the last several years? It seems FHSU is a bit behind in those areas too!
Last edited by usawks1; 03/25/08 10:54 PM.
Are you making a POSITIVE difference in the life of kids?
Randy Hinderliter
USAW Kansas
KWCA Rep/Coaches Liaison
Ottawa University Volunteer Assistant
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: usawks1]
#126161
03/26/08 01:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,538
Bronco Wrestler
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Posts: 2,538 |
I can also think of couple of others, Chas Thompson and Aaron Meister come to my mind, but I feel that there is room for more of our state's proven athletes to stay in state.
I will agree 100% on the FHSU football & basketball teams...
Alex R. Ryan
KSHSAA Official #15616
USAWKS Official #707
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: Bronco Wrestler]
#126201
03/26/08 04:47 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 452
moeder
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: moeder]
#126279
03/26/08 05:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,595
usawks1
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... but do our athletes want to stay in state at Hays?
One definitely needs to look at a two-way street ... kind of like a marriage!
Are you making a POSITIVE difference in the life of kids?
Randy Hinderliter
USAW Kansas
KWCA Rep/Coaches Liaison
Ottawa University Volunteer Assistant
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: usawks1]
#126305
03/26/08 09:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 101
maybeimamazed
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 101 |
Someone brought up the question of the junior college kids having success (like Eric did) then leaving the state. Well, of course they're going to; FHSU is a D-II program and the kids that win juco national titles and are All-Americans are going to go to D-I programs. FHSU could expand its scope of recruitment in the state and go after that level of kid that could compete at the D-II level (and there are a lot of them out there). The program just needs to be attractive enough for those kids to stay in state.
You just kinda wasted my precious time
But don't think twice, it's all right
Bob Dylan, 1963
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Re: ITS TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE @ FHSU
[Re: maybeimamazed]
#126317
03/26/08 11:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4
short sit
Junior Member
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4 |
There is a great model on how to build a program out in the middle of no where with little money, just look north at Kearney. Unfortunately results speak for themselves. If FHSU supporters, alumni, donors, and fans are comfortable with the medicore results and above average acedemics then keep things the way they are. If better performances at the national tournment are what you want then a chnage needs to be made.
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