At the KSHSAA Executive Board meeting held on June 12 there were three major changes approved for the 2008-09 wrestling season. These changes were the results of recommendations made to the KSHSAA by the special committee on weight loss.

1) Change in policy re: when the weight-loss permit is necessary – Proposed change was adopted. The change is that there will be only one trigger point as to when the wrestler will have to obtain a weight loss permit – if they are going to a weight class that would require them to lose more than 8% of their alpha weight.

2) Change in policy re: the Friday night weigh-in windows for wrestlers in Class 4A and 3-2-1A regionals – Proposed change was adopted. The change gives a wrestler two “windows” that he can do his Friday night weigh-in at the 4A and 3-2-1A regional. The first window is for one hour starting when the last match in his weight class is concluded – the second window is during the 285# weigh-ins. This will be consistent with the Friday evening state weigh-ins. A wrestler can elect either window for their weigh-in but not both. This is also consistent with the state weigh-in process.

3) Change in policy re: the weight classes a wrestler can compete in following their certification. This proposed change was also adopted and is of the three the MOST significant with respect to policy change. An example is the best way to explain the change. With this change a wrestler may certify at one weight class and wrestle TWO weight classes above and not break their certification SO LONG AS they only weigh up one weight class above certification. Example – Wrestler is certified at 140#, he can weigh in at 145# and wrestle in either 145# or 152#. He can not weigh in more than 145# without breaking his 140# certification. There is still the requirement that a wrestler must have at least one-half of his total weigh-ins at his certified weight to wrestle that weight in the regional tournament.


Another wrestling item changed was to increase the fee paid to official who work the 4A and 3-2-1A regionals. Concerns re: both the number and quality of officials assigned to these regionals prompted a request to increase the fees paid to these officials with the hopes it would encourage more of them to make themselves available for those tournaments.

Greg Mann
Norton

As received from Rick Bowden; KSHSAA

Was the proposal on changing the 2# allowance to 1/1 discussed??

Ron Burgundy;

As I do not know what you mean by 1/1, I am going to say "No," it was not discussed.

What would the change be?

Mann

There was talk among some coaches that they wanted the two-pound allowance after the Christmas break, instead of mid-January. Is this what you are referring to?

Moving the certification date and therefore the two pound growth allowance to before Christmas WAS discussed by the committee. The decision to not recommend this move was made due to the move reducing the time an athlete would have to lose weight. As a committee, we believed that reducing the amount of time an athlete had to lose weight would not encourage healthy weight-loss practices.

Mann

Thanks very much for the detailed report with this info Mr. Mann! Very helpful.

Kit Harris

That's the one I was referring to. I thought it might pass this year. It seemed to have unanimous support among coaches at our regional. Maybe we're just living in the 80's.....back in the days when 98-pound weaklings could weigh a whopping 103# after Christmas.

Three major changes... That is a joke! These changes don't do a thing to help Kansas wrestlers become better wrestlers. No changes to allow coaches to coach, no changes to allow teams to travel, no changes to allow more matches if you want them, no changes to get the KSHSAA away from controling middle school wrestling, no changes to deregulate video taping, etc. These changes are only major in the eyes of those who don't REALLY follow wrestling.

We expend so much time and effort on weight control or weight policy that we don't do anything else. All of this focus on weight is not helping our state progress. The only place weight control needs to be enhanced is for officials! There are several who are far to FAT to effectively arbitrate a match! By creating all of this complication for how much, when, where, how many times you have to make weight only alienates the fan base and potential new comers. Alpha weight, certification, minimum competition weigh-ins, trigger point, percentage of weight... Am I alone in thinking this is becoming WAY too complicated and for no good reason? There were three wrestlers who died in 1991 or 1992 and everyone outside of the sport quickly pointed a finger at weight loss. Everyone turned a blind eye to the glaring common dominator, all three of these wrestlers were taking creatine and losing weight at the same time. Since that time we have labored to prevent weight cutting. This goal will never be accomplished until matside weigh-ins are embraced. The increasing number of rules attempting to control weight cutting are only discouraging potential wrestlers from getting involved in our sport.

I am sure this will ruffle some feathers but it is absolutely RETARDED to believe that pushing the weight allowance out past the return to competition date makes sense! You force wrestlers to mandatorily quit working out and practicing and then you tell them they have to make scratch weight for the events after the layoff only to get your allowance later. Just plain stupid and no way is supported by anyone who has every really cut weight and been competitive.

Will Rogers never met Will Cokely.

I agree with Will, Why not give the kids their two pound allowance right after christmas. It makes no sense not to do it.All of the rules for cutting weight are crazy. The kids that want to cut weight just have to do it earlier now, they all cut for their alpha weigh in, so they can wrestle the weight they want duing the season. Cutting weight is part of wrestling always has been and always will be, whatever rules are enacted the kids that want to cut will figure out a way to do it.

Unfortunately I wasn't born until 28 years after Mr. Rogers perished in a plane crash. Since Sport0 knew him so well we can now put his age at some where around 80. Someone get him a walker or wheel chair so he can get out of the house and quit wasting good talk forum space with his rubish.

Have to say with Swayz busy, Salyer calm and Gutwrench self-exiled from the forums it is nice to count on Mr. Cokeley to voice his opinion on the forums.

Sportsfan_ enjoyed the humor!
For all the Will Roger's (Never met a man i did not like)
and Father Flanagan (No such thing as a bad boy) types out there, it takes a WC Field's (Anyone who hates dogs and kids can't be all bad) type sometimes to balance things out!

sport0,

Do you agree or disagree with the changes? Were they really major changes? Permits to exceed weight loss parameters, bumping up two weight classes and a new window to make weight on two day tournaments. Will speaks his mind about meaningful changes and you reach for sound bites?

Will:

My feathers are only ruffled by the use of the "R-word" as we with special needs children call it. That's a high school kid's word and there are other words to use.

As for the weight allowance thing, I do agree that having the weight allowance start with the first meet after break would be nice and would make more sense than waiting two weeks. When I was in high school we certified the first Saturday in December, got two pounds on Dec. 15, two on Jan. 1 and two and Feb. 2.

As for the formula being complicated, trust me, this isn't complicated. I could send you the Iowa formula, which is just a step down the evolutionary scale below graduate-level calculus. Hydration, body-fat testing, a graduated weekly weight loss chart for each kid, issued by the state, etc. Talk about "big brother!

As a rule, I support whatever the KWCA supports and to a lesser degree KSHSAA mandates. The few times I do find myself in disagreement with a KSHSAA rule I first voice my concerns with my coach and then my AD and lastly in writing (not an email), to KSHSAA administration. Agree or disagree, I would never come on a public board and call those charged with either coaching or administrating our student athletes, names. As to these most recent rule changes I have not had time to dissect them as yet. But again, if they are good enough for the coaches and their representatives, they are good enough for me. Also, as another rule, any position Cokely takes you will generally find me on the other side. The only point of my post was to draw attention to his usual sophomoric boorish behavior.


How nice of you two to decide what are "meaninful" changes and what are not! Myself, I prefer to put those decisions in the hands of those who have chosen to sacrifice and work in the profession.

Sport0,

It is not a sacrifice when it is your JOB.

I have chosen to do all of the above. Voice my concerns, write letters, make phone calls, post on the forum. I believe until we fix the system there will be NO meaningful changes. If 90% of the KWCA support a change it will not even make it to the Executive board. My tax dollars (and maybe yours too if you weren't already retired) pay those who make the rules. I want a voice so there is representation for my taxation!

The thing that is weird is that you are the only guy on the entire forum that consistently posts nothing that means a thing. As far as I know you have never given one minute or your time or a single penny of your funds to support wrestling. Why don't you use your time to promote what you support instead of using your energy in such a negative way?

If you don't like the way I do things then don't do things the way I do them but don't attack me or ridicule me. I am doing all I can to support progress. My advice, if you don't like progress sit back and continue doing nothing just like the rest who are not in favor of change.

Amazed - You are only offended if you want to be... The word has several meanings and the one you chose is actually a slang use.

re·tard 1 (rĭ-tärd') Pronunciation Key
v. re·tard·ed, re·tard·ing, re·tards

v. tr.
To cause to move or proceed slowly; delay or impede.

v. intr.
To be delayed.

A synonym for retarded is backwards. I could have used that word but it doesn't have near the impact.

I too am puzzled as to why the weight allowance, after the Christmas holidays, is pushed beyond the wrestlers return to competitive wrestling. It just makes no sense to me, and strikes me as contrary to the welfare of our wrestlers.

Can someone explain the conventional logic behind the resistance to this sensible rule change?

There is no conventional wisdom in use. I thought the whole point was to discourage an athlete from losing weight... If you couldn't certify before Christmas why would it be healthy to give you more time to certify after? Most of these athletes are growing and when you couple that with the mandatory practice shutdown how is it healthier? This policy encourages or allows wrestlers to procrastinate to certify. Is that healthy? Is it healthy to make the wrestlers make scratch weight after instead of giving the two pound allowance? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe Sport0 can explain it.

First, I want to make it clear that it is NOT "my job" to sit on the weight loss committee. I have many things to keep me busy; I was asked to be a member and I accepted the responsibility. My BOE was gracious enough to allow me the time to be on this committee--but it is NOT part of my contracted duties as supt. of USD 211 nor is it in the job description for the supt. of USD 211.

The "conventional wisdom" being used in keeping the certification date in January is to give an athlete the maximum amount of time possible to lose the maximum allowable amount of weight. The hoped for result of the rules changes regarding weight loss is to encourage SAFE weight loss practices; not to discourage, in general, weight loss. Given the current NATIONAL attention regarding safe weight loss in wrestling it made the best sense to the committee (which includes two doctors and an athletic trainer) to keep the certification date as late as possible.

Many of us on this forum are old enough to remember that the date for certification has been changed many times over the years--it has been before and after Christmas several times; that the growth allowance has been as little as zero pounds and as much as five pounds; that it has been given all at once and also over a period of time. There were excellent arguments advanced for all of the variations, for and against.

Greg Mann, Norton

Egg:

While I still remain skeptical of the accepted logic behind this rule, I nonetheless wish to extend a note of thanks for taking your time to provide the explanation. Thanks again.