anybody have preseason rankings?

5A is posted on the kansaswrestling.org web site!

http://www.kansaswrestling.org/images/docs/Results/09Rankings/5apreseason.pdf

The KWCA appointed their Class rankers at their last meeting. That kansaswrestling.org page has the ranking link. Continue to check that page to see updated ranking's.

Why does the KWCA involve themselves in the ranking process? It is a bit of a conflict of interest to have coach rank his wrestlers and his opponents... The media ranks football and basketball. Can you imagine if Marvin Deiner was the 5A ranking representative for football!!! Coaches should coach and someone from outside of coaching should handle the information side of the sport. Heck, a lot of coaches are very forthright with information either. The KWCA web site is great but someone from outside of the coaching ranks should be handling the actual rankings. JMO

In response to the previous post, there is no way that a media guy from a newspaper knows enough about wrestling across this state to be a ranker. We, the KWCA Board, have been doing the rankings for quite sometime, and we do a good job.

Being a coach and the 321-A ranker I try my hardest to be unbiased, and there are too many people out there-coaches, fans, parents, and administration that help me in this endeavor. Is it a process like the football/basketball crowd-no-we do not have the scientific analysis like power-ratings and such, wrestling is not even the same kind of sport.

Do not get me wrong, the media that does take an interest and actually understand our sport do a wonderful job. But as an example of how this would not work-in Hays before state the media picks the winners of each weight class. These are obviously bias towards the western kansas schools and they should be because the paper is located in the west! Are you sure that someone from Hays could be the ranker for Desoto? Would they have any idea of the competetion you face? Coaches do understand this, we see it every year and we do email, phone, and discuss amongst ourselves.

Last year was my first year being a ranker and it was a very time-consuming and hard job to do, sometimes I was raked over the coals. But I did it as best I could and second of all they are only rankings. This year will be easier due to the fact that I know what to do, just like I became a better coach after my first year.

I'm not going to lie and say that I do not enjoy it now, but I know when one of my wrestlers is not good enough to be ranked. To rank someone on your own team for a false assessment of your teams strength is unethical.

I do understand your concern but our sport is unique and we should embrace that fact-we are special and to allow someone who has never wrestled or is not a fan do the rankings would be wrong. And if you think the rankings are biased now or wrong, I would hate to see what the media would do.

As for when will they be available, I am currently working on them and plan to have the 321-A rankings out by the first week of practice.

Coach Brown
321-A ranker

I nominate Will Cokely as the head ranker dude. Tell us how it is. You know, you would think it would be real nice to have someone on the outside do the rankings, but in the real world are there any newspaper guys (yes probably a few) that a) know much about wrestling and b) are able to cover it enough to rank it accurately. There are some great media people out there that do a fantastic job, but in reality, rankings promote our sport and how many people out there are willing to do that FOR us. Cokely, go for it, rank them all. Or contribute information for the rankers to make their job easier. Either way, it's for the kids.

I believe rankings of any sort, on any level of competition, whether it be in football, basketball, wrestling, etc.......are subjective at best. Whether or not the media or the coaches produce them should not really be the issue. In football the media and coaches polls often differ. I would think a coach performing a wrestling ranking would have a very difficult time defending a poor or biased decision, especially with the critique and comments they would receive from the knowledgable wrestling folks in this forum.

That being said, rankings in general create dialogue, conversation, and debates and through those debates, ultimately enthusiasm and interest for that sport. As evidence just look at all the conversations and opinions that many have in this wrestling forum. Whether you agree with rankings or who produces them, really does not matter. Each of us has free will, if you do not like rankings or do not believe they are accurate, then you can choose to ignore them and if you do like the rankings, then you can choose to add commentary.

If Deiner was ranking football, he may put Gardner at the top of 5A, and that would be fine..........right up until Aquinas beat them on the field. I think it is important to realize that ultimately in all sports, results are decided on the field or in this case on the mat.

Buckbee's 5A looks pretty unbiased...just going by the numbers. Although his Team his team being on top looks a little fishy.

Brent, Jason, and other coaches,

If a coach REALLY wants to do the rankings and they REALLY have the time to do so then great. Correct me if I am wrong but the KWCA doesn't WANT outside help. That is my axe to grind. It seems like a control issue.

I would be glad to help (although I am sure Brent's comments were laced with sarcasm) but we all KNOW that Chief Renegade is the BEST ranker our state has. I placed my post because it seemed, based on some comments repeated to me from your recent meeting, that you guys don't want a non-coach to do the rankings. I wouldn't argue with one thing said about the rankings as they are just information to create interest but I believe the best and most interest comes from someone who is passionate about what he is doing and is not conflicted in what the job he is doing. I know it has to be hard to rank your kids, your opponents and even harder to gather up all of the good information and be a coach to your kids and your teams. I am thankful for the rankings but as always, if there is a better way lets improve them.

I have looked at Iowa and Colorado quickly and their rankngs are handled by the media. In the past our rankings have been slow to be updated, wrestler's weight classes have been inaccurately reported and coaches have not freely given their information in a timely manner to the ranker. If you eliminate those problems then the rankings will be more interesting and informative. Not all states have a Chief so lets embrace our's and use him until he loses his passion for what he does.

I decline my nomination and in return nominate Chief Renegade as HRD (Head Ranker Dude!, Brent, I love the title!)


Furthermore... I don't think any coach would rank their wrestler too high they tend to sandbag when it comes to rankings. The only time a coach overvalues his wrestler's talent is in a seeding meeting!

Agree Chief Renegade is "The Man" when it comes to ranking Kansas HS Wrestlers.
Would like to see his Rankings for each Class and Weight.
Would be fun to compare it with the Coaches Poll when it comes out.

Hey Chief can you send your info to the rankers for each class? At least then they could have the kids in close to the right weights. 5A has 103's that are wrestling 119. 145's that are wrestling 160 etc. But to give Coach Buckbee some credit he is the first to post something. My only point is...

You have gathered all the data on projected weights for this year. This would allow their rankings start the year with some accuracy.

Thanks,

24/7

Coach Buckbee's preseason intent was to just show returning varsity wrestlers with State team points included. His rankings will take a much different look over the next month. I know the 6A ranking is expected to be released soon and will have the updated weight expectations.

The report that I put out on the KWCA website is exactly that a "REPORT". Nowhere does it say anything about ranking, it is a report from last year's state tournament. If you all would READ the report you would know that.

As far as having coaches do the rankings, I wish someone would tell me how it is an advantage to either rank my wrestlers high or low so I can gain an advantage. I will need all the help I can get this year.

They are listed under the 5A rankings link. That might be a reason for confusing them with rankings. Thanks for what you do.

24/7

6a ranings now added

http://www.kansaswrestling.org

Cudos to 6a the first with this years rankings out for thier class. Others soon to follow.

24/7

Rankings are a piece of paper. On the mat is where it is decided who is best. Rankings are never 100% correct, and are a neccessary evil. Too many times I have seen the 4th ranked wrestler and the 2nd or 3rd ranked team end up at the top of the medal stand. The coaches work hard to make rankings so everyone can have the best idea possible of where teams/individuals stand throughout the year. The KWCA makes their own rankings because that is how they choose to do it. If one disagrees with the KWCA, then he/she certainly has the latitude to make their own rankings and publish them where they see fit. The KWCA rankings are not the bible and no one is forced to read them or adhere to them, as stated before, rankings are a piece of paper and nothing more. Let's applaud the coaches who take on the burden of preparing the rankings, agree to disagree with who is ranked where so that we have something to debate and, finally, settle it on the mat!

I think everyone understands that rankings are just for fun and to give wrestling fans something to talk about until the season starts. Dont think I can wait another month, having withdrawl issues.

As are many HS coaches across this State, the coaches who have taken the duties of ranking our wrestlers are certainly to be applauded for their passion and dedication to HS wrestling! As has been stated and is obvious, they carry no weight when the whistle blows. They are in a simple sense, fun and enhance discussion about wrestling while giving recognition for hard work.

The new KWCA web site is fantastic. Along with our forum, Kansas wrestling fans enjoy the fruit of the hard work put in by those that love the sport. Just visit some other state's web sites and see how we stack up. It's a great time to be wrestling in Kansas!

I have openly discussed my thoughts on my All-Class ranking thread and I encourage more of that discussion. The KWCA rankings will have specific dates that updates will occur. The specific coach that is maintaining each class may wish to add commentary, but I will defer any discussion to them.

Monday is almost here! Let's get ready to wrestle! Is this great or what?

We are thinking of just scrapping the rankings all together and instead having a big qualifying tournament at the end of the year and then we will let the kids wrestle it out and see who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc....