Amen

When there is free will or freedom of choice there is no RIGHT SIDE of it. That is the beautiful thing about it. The school administrators must feel that parents, school boards, students, coaches, are unable to make good decisions so they impose oppression because they feel they are on the "right side" of it. Results of a decision ultimately determine whether it was a good one or not!

High five to Matt Jones for bringing up that supporting point!

Sport0, How does travel, if funded by fundraising, negatively impact you? You don't even have any kids in school! Why do you even care? I have provided MUCH evidence that we are not keeping up in general with the other states. You counter with per capita bs but when you walk on the mat it doesn't matter whether you are from Palco,KS or Chicago,IL the best wrestler will get their hand raised. You can't get better wrestling in the plastic bubble. If you want to be the best you have to go after the best. Striving for excellence is an attribute that we should be teaching in all of our schoools! Just shoot me if we are supposed to tell our kids, "Hey, if you can't win we will find an easier sport, league, state, class, activity, or whatever to be in!" Is that what you taught your kids? Is that what your dad taught you?

I see Missouri mentioned in here a few times but as far as I know, Missouri still has a 250 mile travel restriction from the borders so they are actually more restrictive than Kansas is now.

There must be some exception as Oak Park High School traveled to Ohio for a couple of years.

One request I have. Would Mr. Ryan please explain why he went off on me about the OW award for this tournament? He has decided to talk about everything but explain himself on that topic.

You can petition to MSHSAA for a waiver in the travel restrictions and it is a once a year waiver that is extremely hard to get. Petition in writing well in advance and you must convince MSHSAA that it is almost a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for it to be granted. Oak Park got the waiver to attend the Super 8 duals and I think Blue Spring was granted a waiver to attend the Clash, both of which are prestigious, invitation only events which helped their case. As far as I know, those are the only waivers tht have been granted in the last 5 years. When Oak Park got their waiver, I know it was a VERY big deal and many people couldn't believe that it happened. I think the organizers from the Super 8 duals were involved in the petition discussions with MSHSAA in order to get the waiver.

You hit the nail on the head about them telling us we cannot make good decisions. These uppity overeducated pinheads that we call school administrators and govt education idiots look down on us. And, as you said, basically tell us that WE do NOT know what is good for our OWN children, and that we will not make good decisions, and they will. Bottom line is the govt bureaucrats and adminiistrators ALWAYS make decisions that are best for them(gains them power over us, or political points), not the kids. Then they whine and cry that they ARE doing what is best for the kids, and start calling you an uncaring child beater if we even think about doubting their contribution to the betterment of our kids. I get sick of every school bond issue's talking point: "It's for the KIDS"

My kid will learn a whole lot more spending the day at work with me than he will at most schools.

You seem to think Kansas as a whole isn't good enough in your eyes. By your thinking unless you are the #1 seed everday, win every tournament then you're not good enough and must look for ways to get better. I was waiting for you to say it's nice we do this, but this kid went 3-0 and is now 18-0 he's not afraid of competition he's really more deserving. Your mentality is that if you're not first your last to quote the great Ricky Bobby. You have failed to acknowledge the great strives and sucesses of years gone by in Kansas, but instead choose only to bring the bad things to light.

If you don't like KSHSAA's rules then by all means gets SJA to withdraw from the KSHSAA guidelines and then you can do whatever your team chooses. It is afterall a private school so you can recruit, build a better wrestling room, and travel wherever you want. You seem to think travel is holding your team back from being elite, so by all means do whatever is necessary to get there. You still haven't disproved my notion of the top schools in the country mostly being private.

I for one support the KSHSAA and what it stands for. I may not always agree but do feel it is in the best interest of our youth. Agrue with me all you want but getting into college is more important than winning fargo... which without good grades doesn't get you anything.

Wow, seems to me even if you do win every tournament and are the #1 seed everyday, the nature of the sport,or any sport for that matter, you would want to look for ways to get better. I kinda have a problem with any school or person encouraging a student to not better themselves in any activity they undertake.

Until you are the best, you always have something to work for.

Apparently you were raised differently that a lot of us. We are not asking you to work hard and try to be the best, we are only asking that if a kid needs or wants to go to a bigtime tourney out of state, why not let him?

We are not asking KSHSAA to make steroid use legal to make a kid better. We are not asking that it be legal to vaseline our kids to help them win. You would think that we are asking for KSHSAA to allow us to pack a gun in our singlet to help us win. You really are an idiot, I'm sorry. You won't be refereeing the Salina, Classic, or KS State tourney will you? How about Tulsa Nationals, Liberty, USA Folkstyle Natls, Reno, Dixie, Ohio TOC, Dollamur Cotton Bowl, etc etc.? Guess not, as those tourneys probably go against your beliefs that everyone should get their hands raised.

And just to clarify, everyone that is trying to get it thru your thick skull that we need to allow the good kids to push themselves, has kids that don't need to travel on their team. Our kids club has everyone from the kids that still think it is funny to lay on their back and get stuck, to middle of the road kids that, with the drive that they seem to have, will one day be pretty darn good, to the national placer type of kids that like to travel to get a bunch of tough matches in, rather than stay close and get possibly one good match in, in the finals, maybe, if they are lucky. Just so you don't paint us as "only fighting for the elite", I am posting this.

Where do you coach at by the way? I want to know your qualifications for making a judgement on what our elite kids need or don't need. I'm not calling myself Dan Gable, but I talk to enough people that know what they are talking about, and I have been around enough to know a little.

Since when does a kid NEED to travel to travel to a big time tournament? Please explain this comment...

I did not ask about your kids club, and frankly I don't care. We are talking about high school.

I do not coach, I have the opportunity to do so but my job does not allow me to do so. My qualifications? I don't have any. I was never any good, never won very many matches, I'm a horrible official, and last but least I'm always out to ruin someone's day, get real.

What are your qualifications? I wrestled in high school fairly successful, wrestled in college unsuccessfully, and now have officiated for 4 years. I have seen the good, bad, and experienced most in between. I know many multiple state champions, national champions, and elite level coaches who would agree that KS has all the compeition you need, they never traveled to the "elite" tournaments you so desire.

I'm glad you talk to a bunch of "elite" people that since I don't fit your "clique" I don't associate with. Exactly you know a little, it's been how long since you've been on the mat? I was on the mat not very long ago, I was learning on the inside not looking from the outside.

As I said in the other thread I am done with your & Will's rants about how bad the KSHSAA is and how much it is needed you must travel to get better. I hope you can open your eyes and realize just because Kansas doesn't allow you to travel like Blair Academy that we are not the end of the road for wrestling talent.

Doug747,

At least most of us who disagree with each other do not hide behind the anonymity of our screen names. Man up, take some personal responsibility and identify yourself.

Alex, don't take it personally. The thing about wrestling with a pig is you both get muddy, but the pig likes it.

Greg Mann
Norton,KS

I will reveal Doug747 just after Sportsfan02 publicly admits that he is Greg Boucher!

Just wondering if anyone else has a problem with a KSHSAA Mat Official publicly going after people? It seems to me it would make it awfully hard for him to remain unbiased.

I am sorry, but I thought it was clear, by my posts over the years, that I am Doug Eck, with the Brawlers.

No matter how humbly someone tries to give credence to their argument, Bronco has to play the ole' "you think you are better than me" argument, even thought we point out that we gather our info from highly successful programs across the country. If we wanted to be average, we'd ask average programs how they do it.

The best way I can sum up this whole argument is that some people just don't get it.

I bet if you have one of those "Reno Worlds" singlets on at a tourney he referees, he'll handicap the match and give 6 or 8 points, before the match starts, to the kid with the hometown team singlet. I am going to instruct the Brawlers to wear their team singlets to any tourney he referees. One of those Team Kansas singlets will tip him off that we've been across the border somewhere.

This is a wrestling version of class warfare that he is trying to wage, simple as that.

Goddard finishes 6th in the Midwest Classic. This is arguably the best team in Kansas this year but they finished behind two Missouri teams and a team from Oklahoma that will NOT win state in Oklahoma this year. Can this be considered evidence that we are not on par with our neighboring states? By the way, congrats to Goddard's two champions and others who helped contribute to that decent finish.

You mean the two states we finished tied or ahead of at this years Senior Nationals? If they are traveling more than Kansas they obviously aren't traveling enough!

230.5 NJ - 1
2 213 MI - 1
3 210 PA - -
4 164 OH - -
5 156 CA - -
6 135 UT - 1
7 134 MN - 1
8 127.5 NY - -
9 104 IL - 1
10 103 KS - -
10 103 MO - -
12 99 WI - -
13 96 FL - -
14 93 VA - -
15 80.5 CO - -
16 72 ND - -
17 70.5 GA - -
18 62 NC - 1
19 54.5 MD - -
20 52 WA - -
21 48.5 MA - -
22 47 TX - -
23 44 AL - -
23 44 NE - -
25 42.5 SC - -
26 42 TN - -
27 39 AZ - -
28 37 OR - -
29 32.5 KY - -
30 32 SD - -
31 30.5 IA - -
32 30 IN - -
33 29.5 CT - -
34 29 NV - -
35 27 AK - -
36 18 LA - -
36 18 WV - -
38 17 DE - -
38 17 ME - -
40 16 NM - -
41 15 OK

Senior nationals is NOT a good measuring stick nor is Fargo. Neither of these tournaments are regular season tournaments attended by teams. Both are independently attended by those who can and will. You ask for data, I give it to you and yet you weakly try to discredit it!

If we put our best against Wisconsin's, Iowa's, Colorado's (to name a few) best we during the regular season we would get our collective butt's kicked. Do you REALLY think OK is the 41st ranked state in folkstyle wrestling? Get real! This list is heavily skewed because the tournament is on the east coast and NOT during the regular season!

Why is it I knew you would say that?


So pretty much like any team tournament you would have "those" that could ie. "will" attend?


You don't need me for that. You do a good enough job on your own.


So pretty much the same location as the tough tournaments you would have us attend instead?