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Post Senior Classic Notes #145433 03/28/09 04:59 AM
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Ricky Bobby Offline OP
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Is there something that can be done differently with the Senior Classic? It was kind of frustrating to sit through 3 hours of wrestling and only get a few matches worth actually watching.

Saw a lot of wrestlers who didn’t look like they committed the time they should’ve towards conditioning. If you want the college coaches who were in attendance (i.e. Coach Thompson, Renfro, and Peterson) to give you a look you better put in the same kind of work you would during the regular season as you are in the post season. Remember it doesn’t get easier in college, it gets harder.

I’d say Maple v. Napier was the highlight, but if it’s college Napier gets the W because of the out of bounds rule. Also, college refs won’t let you ride a whole period like Maple did in the second without trying to work a turn.

Another match that could’ve been aided by the college out of bounds rule was Lawrence v. Frye.

Cox v. Geist was a little surprising. I didn’t see it ending that close and Geist should’ve had the W but over exerted himself on that single leg trip.

Were weather conditions too bad for Watson, Furches, and Peters to make it up to Topeka from the Wichita area? I think KDOT tries to do a pretty good job of keeping the roads clear, especially the Turnpike. They could’ve caught a ride with many of the Wichita area wrestlers (i.e. Houlden, Fulbright, Cox, Beard, Maples, Caldwell, Detmer).

And what’s the deal with everyone leaving after the quote unquote match of the night with Beard v. Kriss? I would wager to say that 2/3’s of the crowd left after this one minute and forty-five second match. Didn’t they know there was one match left? It was however the most exciting near period of a match of the night with both getting good takedown attempts ending out of bounds. It ended when Kriss funked out of a deep low single by Beard and ended up on top with a reverse half.

Overall it wasn’t too bad considering the conditions outside. I definitely would have liked to see fewer matches and more switching of weight classes like Beard and Kriss to find the best matches to attract fans. After all, this is an “exhibition” but, if we’re going to grow the sport make it more appealing to the fans.

P.S.
Next year put in the college out of bounds rule for the Senior Classic (unless it gets changed in the rules anyways). If these boys want to wrestle in college let them have a little taste of what’s like to always be on your toes and not let up just cause your on the edge.


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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Ricky Bobby] #145436 03/28/09 05:28 AM
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understand that at the college level maple would be awarded for his riding of napier. i dont think napier has been held down for a whole period like that. do u think it was stalling? i thought it was tough controling. i like the idea of college rules for this event, including out of bounds and riding time. on another topic, props to callahan for wrestling up and on the fly.


Tim Horgan
Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: lakemats] #145438 03/28/09 11:06 AM
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Curtis Chenoweth Offline
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On this rare occasion, I disagree with you ricky bobby. I think that maple did a great job of riding out napier, and although he didn't ever really come close to back points he was doing a great job of riding. What I mean by this is that napier was bustin his butt to get out from bottom and maple spent most of the period returning him to the mat.
I do agree with you though on the out of bounds rule. The only problem though is that the kids will only have a couple of short weeks to adapt an entirely new strategy. I don't think its anything our elite kids can't handle. I wouldn't mind them throwing riding time in either as it would have changed the entire 3rd period of the maple/napier match.


Curtis Chenoweth
Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Curtis Chenoweth] #145439 03/28/09 11:23 AM
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Ricky Bobby Offline OP
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Hey, Maple did a good job he beat Napier. However, from my understanding of the rules you have to work for a turn and it didn’t appear to me that he did. Big props for winning the match though. Hopefully we get a chance to watch this matchup again for the next several years.


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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Ricky Bobby] #145440 03/28/09 12:30 PM
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I want to give credit to everyone that was there and especially the guys that wrestled on short notice. I am guessing the older Rempe wasn't added until Fri. afternoon and was there because his brother was wrestling. For him to step up and wrestle shows what kind of kid he is. Callahan and West also filled in on short notice. I thought West wrestled a tough match and was very close to pulling out the win. I do believe that Callahan did weigh in more than Vesta so the bumping up is not an issue there. I also wand to give props to the Frye kid from Eureka for wrestling twice. Maple/Napier was a great match and could of gone either way. Hopefully they will both do well at senior nationals. Beard/Kriss match was exciting even though Beard got caught in a scramble. Most people will forget that Kriss was taken down to his back but the refs called them out. Kriss did look bigger too. Kriss is a great wreslter but I felt that Beard was going to win from the way they looked the first minute and a half but everyone knows what can happen in a scramble. I was impressed by the good sportsmanship by all.

Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Ricky Bobby] #145446 03/28/09 01:57 PM
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Dean Welsh Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ricky Bobby
Is there something that can be done differently with the Senior Classic? It was kind of frustrating to sit through 3 hours of wrestling and only get a few matches worth actually watching.

***************OUCH!

Saw a lot of wrestlers who didn’t look like they committed the time they should’ve towards conditioning. If you want the college coaches who were in attendance (i.e. Coach Thompson, Renfro, and Peterson) to give you a look you better put in the same kind of work you would during the regular season as you are in the post season. Remember it doesn’t get easier in college, it gets harder.

***************Good point.

I’d say Maple v. Napier was the highlight, but if it’s college Napier gets the W because of the out of bounds rule. Also, college refs won’t let you ride a whole period like Maple did in the second without trying to work a turn.

*****************If Maple rode the WHOLE period - how/were did CJ get his one point? Just curious. After CJ got taken down at the end - did Maple let him up? What kind of take down did Maple use? Was it scoreless after the first period?

Were weather conditions too bad for Watson, Furches, and Peters to make it up to Topeka from the Wichita area? I think KDOT tries to do a pretty good job of keeping the roads clear, especially the Turnpike. They could’ve caught a ride with many of the Wichita area wrestlers (i.e. Houlden, Fulbright, Cox, Beard, Maples, Caldwell, Detmer).

*************Good point. But, some have a higher level for risk than others. I respect the thoughts/rights of those that were fearful to go due to the poor weather conditions. I wish it could have been postponed. Or, said another way, just because you like jumping off of cliffs, doesn't mean I have to jump (even if I am standing right there with you).

And what’s the deal with everyone leaving after the quote unquote match of the night with Beard v. Kriss?

**********Agreed. It is rude. However, the dam- weather might have been a factor.

I would wager to say that 2/3’s of the crowd left after this one minute and forty-five second match. Didn’t they know there was one match left? It was however the most exciting near period of a match of the night with both getting good takedown attempts ending out of bounds. It ended when Kriss funked out of a deep low single by Beard and ended up on top with a reverse half.


*****************Wow. Good description. Thank you. Can you provide a similar 'blow by blow' to the Maple/CJ match please? ;-)

Overall it wasn’t too bad considering the conditions outside. I definitely would have liked to see fewer matches and more switching of weight classes like Beard and Kriss to find the best matches to attract fans. After all, this is an “exhibition” but, if we’re going to grow the sport make it more appealing to the fans.

******************Good point.

P.S.
Next year put in the college out of bounds rule for the Senior Classic (unless it gets changed in the rules anyways). If these boys want to wrestle in college let them have a little taste of what’s like to always be on your toes and not let up just cause your on the edge.


**************Educate me please. How do the edge rules differ? Thanks.


D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Dean Welsh] #145447 03/28/09 02:03 PM
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Curtis Chenoweth Offline
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The college out of bounds rule differs in that you only have to have one part of your body in bounds. If either wrestler has even just a hand down in bounds then the ref will let them keep wrestling if the wrestlers are in a scramble. This adds about 5 feet to the edge of the mat and completely changes the edge of the mat tactics.


Curtis Chenoweth
Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Curtis Chenoweth] #145448 03/28/09 02:44 PM
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Dean Welsh Offline
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Ah, very cool. Thank you Mr. National Champ! ;-)

You still wrestling or what are you up to these days?


D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Dean Welsh] #145449 03/28/09 03:26 PM
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Gary Ulmer Offline
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Abihu0704 said it well. The kids who wrestled did do a great job in terms of getting there through the weather and preparing to wrestle some times a different opponent then they had been planning for, or for some to wrestle at all.

The KWCA Board Members did a wonderful job not just in the operation of a meet that is more complicated than it appears, but also undoubtedly did some scrambling as the weather situation changed throughout the day.

Thank you all, wrestlers and the KWCA Board, for putting on a fun and entertaining sporting event yesterday evening.

Gary Ulmer

Last edited by Gary Ulmer; 03/28/09 03:39 PM.
Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Gary Ulmer] #145452 03/28/09 04:53 PM
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I have seen this at a number of tournaments where they start wrestling in a middle weight like 140, work through the heavy weights, and then start over from the beginning. Pick a premier matchup and make it the last match of the night. Just my suggestion.

Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Dean Welsh] #145454 03/28/09 05:13 PM
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Curtis Chenoweth Offline
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Originally Posted By: dwelsh
Ah, very cool. Thank you Mr. National Champ! ;-)

You still wrestling or what are you up to these days?


I had to take a year off to let my shoulder heal up. I had surgery on it last year a few days after nationals and have been slowly getting it back into wrestling shape. This year I've been helping out at Neosho County. I'll be back on the collegiate wrestling map somewhere next year though and competing for another title.


Curtis Chenoweth
Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Curtis Chenoweth] #145458 03/28/09 06:57 PM
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Dean Welsh Offline
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Thanks for the update. Good luck Curtis!


D. Dean Welsh, Junction City
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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: shipmanm] #145465 03/28/09 09:51 PM
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usawks1 Offline
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... and our last match of the night would have been a premier match, but then Frye v Rose got bumped to that spot!


Are you making a POSITIVE difference in the life of kids?

Randy Hinderliter
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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: usawks1] #145487 03/29/09 03:05 AM
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Ricky Bobby Offline OP
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Here is my match recall of the Maple v. Napier match 24 hours later so it may not be precise:

1st period both wrestlers more or less feel each other out.

2nd period Napier picks down. Maple rides him out for 1 minute and 55 seconds. Napier gets an escape out of bounds (if it were the college out of bounds rule he could have scored the reversal and three near fall points).

3rd period Maple picks down. Napier gives Maple the escape with less than 5 seconds of riding time. Maple gets the takedown with 3 seconds left making the final score 3 to 1, Maple. (College Match Score 5 to 4, Napier. Note: Maple would get 1 point for a minute of riding time)

If college rules would've been used I'm sure Napier tries to ride Maple rather than give him the easy out with the escape. Credit to Maple he wrestled a fine match by only giving Napier one point.

However, in my estimation for this one match and many others wrestled at the Senior Classic the outcomes could've been severely changed had college rules been implemented.


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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Ricky Bobby] #145488 03/29/09 03:45 AM
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Curtis Chenoweth Offline
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If college rules were in affect though, I'd imagine Maple would have scrambled out of the reversal and not give up any back points.


Curtis Chenoweth
Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Curtis Chenoweth] #145491 03/29/09 12:53 PM
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I will start by saying that I think C J Napier is going to be a great addition to my favorite D-1 wrestling team the Nebraska Cornhuskers. My actual favorite college wrestling team is now the Baker University Wildcats. I think C J Napier will help the Cornhuskers win the D-1 national team titles both in Duals and the end of the year individual tournament in the next few years along with Cotton and Koehn. I am also hoping to see a few All Americans and even a couple of individual national titles out of these three great ex Kansas high school wrestlers now wrestling for NU.

I agree with Curtis though that if you had college rules in effect that Maple would have probably wrestled different in that situation although I was not there and did not see the match. I question my forum friend Ricky Bobby's speculation that Napier would have not let Maple go so soon in a college match. I have seen plenty of competitve college matches where the top guy lets the bottom guy go early from the referee's position. I think that happens frequently if the top wrestler feels more confident on his feet than on the mat versus his opponent.


Vince Nowak
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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Husker Fan] #145492 03/29/09 01:06 PM
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church Offline
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Maple would of never went to his back as he had not given up 3pt or two point NF all season long and I believe only one time in the past two seasons. (Also, if the escape happened as time was expiring, how would there have been enough time to award back points. And, how do you get back points out of bounds?)

Maple would of been smart enough to give up 1 and not 2 as it has been instilled in him how important that is.

Even if he would of given up two he would of still won 3-2.

Nobody in Kansas is going to ride Maple as he is too good of an athlete and too smart to let that happen and the only thing he has done over the past two years is work at getting from the mat to his feet on restarts!

It was almost a blessing that maple gave up the point point in the second period because he now had to score to win and not hold onto a 1 pt lead.

Ricky - In a college match or high school match, Maple was better than CJ Friday night. He has trained hard, looked to be in better shape (not that CJ is in bad shape but getting rode for 1:55 or more will wear you out especially if you keep coming to your feet and get returned over and over).

In the Latest National Rankings for the Senior Class CJ is ranked 8th. There is also a young man from Georgia named Joey Lazor who is ranked somewhere around 15th. Maple is ranked 25th. In the past year Maple has defeated CJ and Joey in folkstyle matches. Is it time to move Kendric up.

We will see in less than a week, just exactly what the boys are really about when we get to the beach!

Church

Last edited by church; 03/29/09 04:31 PM.

Michael Church
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Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: church] #145512 03/29/09 09:13 PM
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Could someone direct me to the complete matches and scores of this dual? I have yet to see it anywhere. Thanks!

Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Holliday Hays] #145513 03/29/09 10:31 PM
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Salyer posted them on the kids forum under the senior classic thread. I would copy and paste for you but I'm on my phone and am unable to.


Curtis Chenoweth
Re: Post Senior Classic Notes [Re: Holliday Hays] #145515 03/29/09 10:56 PM
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RichardDSalyer Offline
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Originally Posted By: Holliday Hays
Could someone direct me to the complete matches and scores of this dual? I have yet to see it anywhere. Thanks!
BLUE (Big Schools) 56
RED 24

125 — Lawrence, Olathe South, dec. Frye, Eureka, 4-3;
103 — Windham, Derby, pinned Cole, Abilene;
119 — Weigel, Plainville, dec. Wilson, Wichita North, 4-2; 119 — Vesta, Man, pinned Callahan, Baldwin;
130 — Cox, Maize, def. Geist, Osborne, 3-0;
135 — Maple, Wichita Heights, dec. Napier, Columbus, 3-1;
135 — Tovar, Emporia, winner by injury default over Hewitt, Beloit;
140 — Peoples, Blue Valley Northwest, dec. Bainter, Norton, 4-3;
140 — Jesseph, Chanute, dec. Dikin, Emporia, 3-1;
145 — Means, Goddard, maj. dec. Spangler, Beloit, 13-5.
145 — Crank, Hutchinson, def. Trevor Rempe, Smith Center, 6-4;
152 — Fullbright, Maize, dec. McCall, Smith Center, 7-1;
160 — Caldwell, Goddard, maj. dec. Wuthnow, Abilene, 12-4;
160 — Detmer, Wichita Carroll, pinned Travis Rempe, Smith Center;
171 — Arnberger, Colby, dec. Feldkamp, Derby, 5-2;
189 — Davis, Liberal, dec, Krone, Beloit, 6-1;
189 — Bortz, Pratt, def. West, Man, 3-2;
215 — Kyler, Ellsworth, pinned Gutierrz, KC-Turner;
197 — Kriss, Colby, pinned Beard, Goddard;
125 — Rose, Emporia, dec. Frye, Eureka, 6-3.


Richard D. Salyer
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